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Shares hardest hit by price controls
Surealligator
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:27:21 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 709
Location: Velayat-e Faryab
Shares that will be hardest hit by price control will be

Kenol Kobil (Kenya oeperations)
Total - Gasoline
Unga - Jogoo will come under control

Any other or the above will not be affected and why?
Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
VituVingiSana
#2 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:05:39 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
Surealligator wrote:
Shares that will be hardest hit by price control will be

Kenol Kobil (Kenya oeperations)
Total - Gasoline
Unga - Jogoo will come under control

Any other or the above will not be affected and why?


Most if not all... soon the Banks will be told u can only lend at x%...

I smell populism & corruption...

When prices cant be raised (e.g. bread) then quality drops!

The same can happen for unga/flour where lower quality maize or wheat is used... We all know not all maize or wheat is the same... Some is much better/tastier than others...

Even petrol has 'quality' e.g. I only go to Kenol, Shell or Total. None of the hashi or triton or others...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
The Merchant
#3 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:40:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/24/2010
Posts: 846
Location: KENYA
Definately KK ...Now Im nervous about an otherwise attractive stock. The long term investors may begin to dump it very soon if Ephraim Maina keeps talking. This country has serious political risk!
the deal
#4 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:50:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
The GoK has an obligation to save its citizens not oil cartels set up by politicians...free markets have failed even in the U.S..in SA and Nam the Goverments sets the petrol pump price,tells the banks to lend at x%..removes VAT on basic goods like Unga...have the quality gone down=NO,are banks bankrupt=no probably most profitabe in Africa...this is long overdue...people cant suffer in the name of capitalism..BRAVO GOK!!!!
The Merchant
#5 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 2:08:17 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/24/2010
Posts: 846
Location: KENYA
@the deal...only trouble here is that our politicians do not have a good record of having caring for the interest of the public one bit. Think about how much power price control will give some politicians. 'Either you pay me X or I rally others against your industry to reduce prices by Y'.....Sounds risky to me.
kyt
#6 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 2:24:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
true indeed.
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
ProverB
#7 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 2:35:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
quite opportunistic hono-rubble members..intersted to see how they will spin this.
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
Kausha
#8 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:23:41 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
I thought folks here are more witty. This bill was a waste of time it will never come into law. Worse still Emilio is an economist, he probably will refuse to sign it and not say much because it's nonsensical. Kenya is a signatory to many trade treaties including Comesa, WTO, EAC. We would have to rescind our status in these treaties, and they mean a whole world. To me this bill just shows how FOOLISH our mpigs are, in this day age, price controls unless we are North Korea. The IMF, World bank and the usual suspects would never allow us to sign such a document and they have enough clout to force their way.

The deal stop lying about SA. Fuel is not fixed. VAT is allover the place including on medical services and medicines.
the deal
#9 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:39:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Kausha wrote:
I thought folks here are more witty. This bill was a waste of time it will never come into law. Worse still Emilio is an economist, he probably will refuse to sign it and not say much because it's nonsensical. Kenya is a signatory to many trade treaties including Comesa, WTO, EAC. We would have to rescind our status in these treaties, and they mean a whole world. To me this bill just shows how FOOLISH our mpigs are, in this day age, price controls unless we are North Korea. The IMF, World bank and the usual suspects would never allow us to sign such a document and they have enough clout to force their way.

The deal stop lying about SA. Fuel is not fixed. VAT is allover the place including on medical services and medicines.

@ Kausha stop misleading people otherwise we will lose all newfarers on wazua...as a member i expected a better post from you...how does Comesa gets involved in price control? Is Kenya colonised by the IMF and WB? Which SA are you talking about? The one i know which is the WC the Govmnt sets the pump price!
VituVingiSana
#10 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:07:21 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
The GoK has an obligation to save its citizens not oil cartels set up by politicians...free markets have failed even in the U.S..in SA and Nam the Goverments sets the petrol pump price,tells the banks to lend at x%..removes VAT on basic goods like Unga...have the quality gone down=NO,are banks bankrupt=no probably most profitabe in Africa...this is long overdue...people cant suffer in the name of capitalism..BRAVO GOK!!!!


BULLSHIT... You are young so please read what I ask you to. I enjoy debating you but you have to read more.

1) Free markets have NOT failed. Nonsense! Read Schumpeter's CREATIVE DESTRUCTION. There are cycles. That is part of free markets.

2) The USA is not a free market. The so-called financial crisis was precipitated by lax lending standards caused by the GOVERNMENT/POLITICAL policy of funding & supporting Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae. What do you expect when governments step in? Warren Buffett warned about the FMs about 4 years ago...

3) S.Africa moved from a controlled economy pre-1990 where resources were allocated by race not by need or return. BTW, India controls downstream fuel prices. I read the Indian Govt spent BILLIONS 'subsidizing' the Oil Marketers (who still made losses) coz IMPORTS dont care what u sell it at!

4)Erm, what are you talking about VAT? VAT is a TAX. What has a tax got to do with quality unless u cant pass it on? Also note the Laffler Curve...

Please read what I have recommended... It will do you good!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#11 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:10:15 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
The Merchant wrote:
@the deal...only trouble here is that our politicians do not have a good record of having caring for the interest of the public one bit. Think about how much power price control will give some politicians. 'Either you pay me X or I rally others against your industry to reduce prices by Y'.....Sounds risky to me.


Political Corruption!

This is exactly what happened & soon many industries were suffocated. Elliot bakeries (then owned by Unga) was based in Thika. New law was u can only sell bread locally so Elliot cudnt sell in Nairobi... So Elliot collapsed & guess who bought Unga? moi + ndegwas!!!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#12 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:51:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Hehehe price control can bring innovation and massive profits to the likes of Unga i.e they will have a lot of customers in turn raking billion for their shareholders look at safaricom with their bamba 5 and Mpesa...also look at the divergence between the CBK rate and your banks lending rate...damn this banks operate with impunity...LoL.
sparkly
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:15:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Consumer protection. A discipline of public law, nothing new really and it does not mean that companies will fail.
Life is short. Live passionately.
VituVingiSana
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:18:59 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
Hehehe price control can bring innovation and massive profits to the likes of Unga i.e they will have a lot of customers in turn raking billion for their shareholders look at safaricom with their bamba 5 and Mpesa...also look at the divergence between the CBK rate and your banks lending rate...damn this banks operate with impunity...LoL.


Erm, how? Your argument makes little or no sense... Please explain...

How do price controls innovate?
Bamba 5 & M-Pesa not coz of price controls...

Like I said... u are making little sense... pls educate me...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:20:44 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Consumer protection. A discipline of public law, nothing new really and it does not mean that companies will fail.


Consumer Protection should be on QUALITY meaning did u sell me what you told me I should get for my money...

Of course, extends to ads that promise a price & they shud stick to it... very different from Price Controls...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#16 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:48:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
VituVingiSana wrote:
the deal wrote:
Hehehe price control can bring innovation and massive profits to the likes of Unga i.e they will have a lot of customers in turn raking billion for their shareholders look at safaricom with their bamba 5 and Mpesa...also look at the divergence between the CBK rate and your banks lending rate...damn this banks operate with impunity...LoL.


Erm, how? Your argument makes little or no sense... Please explain...

How do price controls innovate?
Bamba 5 & M-Pesa not coz of price controls...

Like I said... u are making little sense... pls educate me...

@VVS i used Safcom's Mpesa and Bamba 5 as an example of on how innovation can change people lives i.e if we cap Unga at 5 bob its up to the company come up with ways to maximise their profits at that price...ofcourse Unga will have a lot of new customers(demand) because its now affordable...
the deal
#17 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:37:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
CAPITALISM IS DEAD...TIME TO GO CHINA...MIXED ECONOMY IS THE WAY...
minto64
#18 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 12:01:12 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/17/2008
Posts: 7
Location: Texas
@ the deal.... in this day and age there should be no price controls.
I second VVS and Kausha's sentiments. As an investor this policy does not augur well for the econmony / Country.
If i was to use your example of Safcom... or better yet Equity. Equity will still be an MFI lending to wanjikus and Nojoroge's in Central province if controls existed. They would not be permitted to operate as a bank Liberalization has opened up Kenyan markets.

As an investor i look at an investment as how i can create wealth for me, myself and I. This bill does not in way push my agenda. Remember the sponsor is one of the wealthiest Kenyans....controls would not have enabled him attain his wealth.
Wake up and smell the coffee. This is nothing but a populist bill. I think it was strategic that the GOK did not send its members to oppose the bill. During the referendum they do not want to antagonise wananchi.

KIbz will veto this bill.... It messes up with his 2030 vision/dream. Think about the corruption it will breed.....aka maize scandal last year when GOK imposed price controls in the wake of the severe drought.
This is a bad. baad,bad policyShame on you Shame on you Shame on you
VituVingiSana
#19 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 2:17:40 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
the deal wrote:
Hehehe price control can bring innovation and massive profits to the likes of Unga i.e they will have a lot of customers in turn raking billion for their shareholders look at safaricom with their bamba 5 and Mpesa...also look at the divergence between the CBK rate and your banks lending rate...damn this banks operate with impunity...LoL.


Erm, how? Your argument makes little or no sense... Please explain...

How do price controls innovate?
Bamba 5 & M-Pesa not coz of price controls...

Like I said... u are making little sense... pls educate me...

@VVS i used Safcom's Mpesa and Bamba 5 as an example of on how innovation can change people lives i.e if we cap Unga at 5 bob its up to the company come up with ways to maximise their profits at that price...ofcourse Unga will have a lot of new customers(demand) because its now affordable...


What are you smoking???

Bamaba 5 is not 5/- per minute... but simply 5/- credit! It's like Unga selling smaller packets of jogoo at a higher price per kilo!

Please look up shortages... It means UNFILLED demand... Unga has no incentive to expand its mills since its VARIABLE costs would be higher than its MARGINAL profits...

Over time, Unga will close up shop if the margins are too low...

Yes, there may be innovation but which country has the highest number of patents? The USA... not entirely free market but a decent example even with all the problems...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#20 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 2:18:57 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
@minto64 - You do know that ephraim maina was/is the owner of kirinyaga construction... which was involved in all sorts of shady deals!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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