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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Ericsson
#15301 Posted : Friday, December 24, 2021 9:11:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,306
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
They should just go ahead and nationalise KQ. That's the only option to keep KQ going. It will operate at a perpetual loss for years to come; only the state can do this at tax payers expense.

No, GoK should NOT nationalize KQ. Let it die and a "New KQ" can take over the old KQ minus the debts.


Or better off we should forget about owning a national airline.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
kmucheke
#15302 Posted : Friday, December 24, 2021 12:00:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/16/2019
Posts: 308
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
They should just go ahead and nationalise KQ. That's the only option to keep KQ going. It will operate at a perpetual loss for years to come; only the state can do this at tax payers expense.

No, GoK should NOT nationalize KQ. Let it die and a "New KQ" can take over the old KQ minus the debts.


Or better off we should forget about owning a national airline.


Sunk cost fallacy and pride won't allow KQ to be abandoned.
obiero
#15303 Posted : Saturday, December 25, 2021 5:13:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,061
Location: nairobi
kmucheke wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
They should just go ahead and nationalise KQ. That's the only option to keep KQ going. It will operate at a perpetual loss for years to come; only the state can do this at tax payers expense.

No, GoK should NOT nationalize KQ. Let it die and a "New KQ" can take over the old KQ minus the debts.


Or better off we should forget about owning a national airline.


Sunk cost fallacy and pride won't allow KQ to be abandoned.

The truth
www.winda.co.ke
HaMaina
#15304 Posted : Sunday, December 26, 2021 10:44:21 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 863
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
They should just go ahead and nationalise KQ. That's the only option to keep KQ going. It will operate at a perpetual loss for years to come; only the state can do this at tax payers expense.

No, GoK should NOT nationalize KQ. Let it die and a "New KQ" can take over the old KQ minus the debts.


Or better off we should forget about owning a national airline.
State abandons KQ takeover.
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
obiero
#15305 Posted : Wednesday, December 29, 2021 4:31:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,061
Location: nairobi
Ericsson
#15306 Posted : Wednesday, December 29, 2021 11:06:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,306
Location: NAIROBI
[quote=obiero]Good things https://www.businessdail...hts-high-demand-3662158[/quote]

Losses will widen
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
obiero
#15307 Posted : Wednesday, January 05, 2022 5:26:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,061
Location: nairobi
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months
www.winda.co.ke
obiero
#15308 Posted : Wednesday, January 05, 2022 5:39:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,061
Location: nairobi
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
obiero wrote:
kmucheke wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
My position remains that instead of signing pacts with insolvent SAA, GOK should lobby other EAC countries to form a public regional airline.

sparkly wrote:
East African Community members need to rethink their aviation sectors or thier dreams of connecting the world and national pride will remain unachievable.

EAC has a fleet size of 60 planes flying to 89 destinations (Kenya 40-53; Rwandaair 12-23; Tanzania 8-13) Uganda, Burundi, South Sudan do not have national carriers. EAC stats are dwarfed regionally by Ethiopian Airlines which has a fleet of 112 flying 125 passenger and 40 cargo destinations.

Compared to international Middle Eastern "competitors" flying regionally like Emirates (258 planes, 158 destinations) and Turkish (336 planes, 304 destinations) EAC carriers are really puny.

Debt ladden EAC carriers (where they exist) are playing in the village league under delusion that they are competing with international counterparts. Only collaborative effort will lead to meaningful impact in the sector. EAC member countries should dissolve their airlines and form an East African Airline (Call it Safari Airlines). Countries without their own airlines like Uganda and Burundi should invest in the new East African Airline.

A collaborative East African Airline will have monopoly in East & Central Africa, challenge the regional giants based on bigger capital base and economies of scale.


Egos. Everyone wants their own airline. TZ and UG have refused to learn from KQ. The smart ones are RW who roped in Qatar as the Sugar Daddy who is also financing the new airport.

Yes RwandaAir seems to have learnt after making losses year after year and having a high CEO turnover rate.

They sold their soul. National pride is a serious thing, ask the USA


None of their airlines is owned by the state/Federal government

You are an intelligent investor so you must know about the state support via subsidy https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52101665
What @Ericsson said was None of their airlines is owned by the state/Federal government
*I will qualify and say no commercial airline since that's the thrust of this discussion.
The US airlines were forced into loss-making by the travel bans. Even SWA felt the pain.
To that extent - travel ban - I feel for KQ too but KQ's problems predate COVID. Losses since 2012.

Well, PPP was shot down. Now you and fellow Kenyans will have to buy my shares.. I repeat, national pride is key. Bailouts are about saving face. USA did it, Kenya will do it


We are broke 😔

It’s done. Kwisha https://www.businessdail...ys-merger-runway-3672246
www.winda.co.ke
Ericsson
#15309 Posted : Wednesday, January 05, 2022 7:05:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,306
Location: NAIROBI
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
obiero wrote:
kmucheke wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
My position remains that instead of signing pacts with insolvent SAA, GOK should lobby other EAC countries to form a public regional airline.

[quote=sparkly]East African Community members need to rethink their aviation sectors or thier dreams of connecting the world and national pride will remain unachievable.

EAC has a fleet size of 60 planes flying to 89 destinations (Kenya 40-53; Rwandaair 12-23; Tanzania 8-13) Uganda, Burundi, South Sudan do not have national carriers. EAC stats are dwarfed regionally by Ethiopian Airlines which has a fleet of 112 flying 125 passenger and 40 cargo destinations.

Compared to international Middle Eastern "competitors" flying regionally like Emirates (258 planes, 158 destinations) and Turkish (336 planes, 304 destinations) EAC carriers are really puny.

Debt ladden EAC carriers (where they exist) are playing in the village league under delusion that they are competing with international counterparts. Only collaborative effort will lead to meaningful impact in the sector. EAC member countries should dissolve their airlines and form an East African Airline (Call it Safari Airlines). Countries without their own airlines like Uganda and Burundi should invest in the new East African Airline.

A collaborative East African Airline will have monopoly in East & Central Africa, challenge the regional giants based on bigger capital base and economies of scale.


Egos. Everyone wants their own airline. TZ and UG have refused to learn from KQ. The smart ones are RW who roped in Qatar as the Sugar Daddy who is also financing the new airport.

Yes RwandaAir seems to have learnt after making losses year after year and having a high CEO turnover rate.

They sold their soul. National pride is a serious thing, ask the USA


None of their airlines is owned by the state/Federal government

You are an intelligent investor so you must know about the state support via subsidy https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52101665
What @Ericsson said was None of their airlines is owned by the state/Federal government
*I will qualify and say no commercial airline since that's the thrust of this discussion.
The US airlines were forced into loss-making by the travel bans. Even SWA felt the pain.
To that extent - travel ban - I feel for KQ too but KQ's problems predate COVID. Losses since 2012.

Well, PPP was shot down. Now you and fellow Kenyans will have to buy my shares.. I repeat, national pride is key. Bailouts are about saving face. USA did it, Kenya will do it


We are broke 😔

It’s done. Kwisha https://www.businessdail...s-merger-runway-3672246[/quote]


South Africa Airways have vehemently denied any merger plans.

https://www.breakingtrav...es-kenya-airways-merger/
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
HaMaina
#15310 Posted : Thursday, January 06, 2022 5:04:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 863
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
Impunity
#15311 Posted : Friday, January 07, 2022 12:23:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,310
Location: Masada
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

obiero
#15312 Posted : Friday, January 07, 2022 7:39:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,061
Location: nairobi
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much
www.winda.co.ke
My 2 cents
#15313 Posted : Saturday, January 08, 2022 10:46:04 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 822
obiero wrote:
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much


There is a good chance that after 12 months, there will be yet another extension.
obiero
#15314 Posted : Sunday, January 09, 2022 3:40:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,061
Location: nairobi
My 2 cents wrote:
obiero wrote:
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much


There is a good chance that after 12 months, there will be yet another extension.

By that time KQ will be profitable
www.winda.co.ke
VituVingiSana
#15315 Posted : Monday, January 10, 2022 3:52:54 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,744
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
obiero wrote:
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much


There is a good chance that after 12 months, there will be yet another extension.

By that time KQ will be profitable
Unlikely but I am rooting for KQ to stop drinking at the taxpayer's trough.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#15316 Posted : Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:39:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,044
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
obiero wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
obiero wrote:
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much


There is a good chance that after 12 months, there will be yet another extension.

By that time KQ will be profitable


Delisting for good seems more likely.
Life is short. Live passionately.
HaMaina
#15317 Posted : Thursday, January 13, 2022 8:57:32 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 863
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
obiero wrote:
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much


There is a good chance that after 12 months, there will be yet another extension.

By that time KQ will be profitable


Delisting for good seems more likely.


I see the KQ Rights issue promised to shareholders b4 consolidation finally materializing, now that the gov is no longer interested in a buy back. I hope ill have some spare cash, KQ shall be a gold mine.
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
My 2 cents
#15318 Posted : Friday, January 14, 2022 7:58:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 822
HaMaina wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
obiero wrote:
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much


There is a good chance that after 12 months, there will be yet another extension.

By that time KQ will be profitable


Delisting for good seems more likely.


I see the KQ Rights issue promised to shareholders b4 consolidation finally materializing, now that the gov is no longer interested in a buy back. I hope ill have some spare cash, KQ shall be a gold mine.


Rights issue 2012 was 14 bob per share now a suspended 3.83. What is it with KQ that people are ready keep coming back to it for more pain.
obiero
#15319 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2022 4:15:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,061
Location: nairobi
My 2 cents wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
obiero wrote:
Impunity wrote:
HaMaina wrote:
obiero wrote:
Suspension of KQ shares NSE trading extended for 12 months


KQ minority investors trapped as recovery plan takes new twist




Obiero trapped!

We will be well. 12 months isn’t much


There is a good chance that after 12 months, there will be yet another extension.

By that time KQ will be profitable


Delisting for good seems more likely.


I see the KQ Rights issue promised to shareholders b4 consolidation finally materializing, now that the gov is no longer interested in a buy back. I hope ill have some spare cash, KQ shall be a gold mine.


Rights issue 2012 was 14 bob per share now a suspended 3.83. What is it with KQ that people are ready keep coming back to it for more pain.

Money is on the way
www.winda.co.ke
sparkly
#15320 Posted : Monday, January 17, 2022 3:22:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,044
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
the first of five 737 800 is on its way to the motherland.. when the inevitable profit turnaround comes soon, most wazuans will be left wondering..


The airline business makes money for everyone else except the shareholder.

Money for the plane manufacturers, financiers/lessors, oil companies, pilots and executives but nothing left for the shareholders. As optimistic as I am for KQ and its newer fleet, I Know that operating and financing costs will go up exponentially, offsetting increase in revenues and savings in maintenance.


@Obiero, let me remind of this 8 year old quote. Achana na KQ.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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