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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,639 Location: NAIROBI
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ArrestedDev wrote:peep wrote:Before the state buyout, they should return our shares that were wiped out last year by over 70%.
After the buyout, the new owner should:
1. Sack everyone (especially the pilots) then recruit afresh at much lower rates. There's a glut of airline staff in the world now
2. Ban all new recruits from membership to unions
3. Cancel all the deals with the SPVs sitting in between KQ and Boeing. These leaches are draining the airline. I hear that they are not at the Boeing HQ, but here with us.
4. Review fuel contracts
Nothing will change. Staff are not to blame. The management is to blame. Even the new CEO is as clueless as one can imagine. He is holding brief for the cartels. They will now have the space to loot very well once it is a fully government entity. KQ is done and dusted. This thread should be closed. Waiting for Obiero to do the last rites Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/24/2017 Posts: 44
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peep wrote:Before the state buyout, they should return our shares that were wiped out last year by over 70%.
After the buyout, the new owner should:
1. Sack everyone (especially the pilots) then recruit afresh at much lower rates. There's a glut of airline staff in the world now
2. Ban all new recruits from membership to unions
3. Cancel all the deals with the SPVs sitting in between KQ and Boeing. These leaches are draining the airline. I hear that they are not at the Boeing HQ, but here with us.
4. Review fuel contracts
KQ's problems have never been about the staff. Even if you paid evergone 100 dollars it will still make a loss. According to their last report staff costs are less than 15% of their cost structure. Kenya is not Ethiopia, you cannot ban a worker from being unionised. The SPVs unfortunately can not be cancelled without great cost-maybe renegotiated. The new KQ will still need to lease and buy aircraft and thus cannot mess up its reputation internationally. Fuel contracts issues were sorted during the latter reign of Mbuvi
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/24/2017 Posts: 44
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@Maka, how many staff is the management looking ro let go?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Zichi wrote:peep wrote:Before the state buyout, they should return our shares that were wiped out last year by over 70%.
After the buyout, the new owner should:
1. Sack everyone (especially the pilots) then recruit afresh at much lower rates. There's a glut of airline staff in the world now
2. Ban all new recruits from membership to unions
3. Cancel all the deals with the SPVs sitting in between KQ and Boeing. These leaches are draining the airline. I hear that they are not at the Boeing HQ, but here with us.
4. Review fuel contracts
KQ's problems have never been about the staff. Even if you paid evergone 100 dollars it will still make a loss. According to their last report staff costs are less than 15% of their cost structure. Kenya is not Ethiopia, you cannot ban a worker from being unionised. The SPVs unfortunately can not be cancelled without great cost-maybe renegotiated. The new KQ will still need to lease and buy aircraft and thus cannot mess up its reputation internationally. Fuel contracts issues were sorted during the latter reign of Mbuvi Staff costs doesn't relate only to the payslip but on actions by the staff that lead to increased cost, here we refer to HOTAC, poor OTP and flagrant theft by servant on dubious hedging strategy, illogical bank pricing on facilities, ticketing schemes.. Senate did a report on this, led by Prof Nyongo. And don't get me wrong, there are good KQ staff, but they are not the majority. The corporate culture there is tilted towards self enrichment. KQ the company, should ideally be a profitable firm, very easily..
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
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I know people are very invested here, but let's be honest with ourselves: Kenya Airways deserves to close, and GoK needs to leave the airline business alone. Why a government needs a national airline carrier is just beyond me!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Mike Ock wrote:I know people are very invested here, but let's be honest with ourselves: Kenya Airways deserves to close, and GoK needs to leave the airline business alone. Why a government needs a national airline carrier is just beyond me! Watch this video to understand the why
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,639 Location: NAIROBI
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KLM exiting KQ even as a technical partner means KQ goes back to the drawing board on how to acquire landing slots in London Heathrow, Schipol airport in Amsterdam and Charles De Gaulle in Paris,France. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,639 Location: NAIROBI
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Zichi wrote:@Maka, how many staff is the management looking ro let go? According to the star 182 pilots and over 400 cabin crew Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,055 Location: Nairobi
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Ericsson wrote:KLM exiting KQ even as a technical partner means KQ goes back to the drawing board on how to acquire landing slots in London Heathrow, Schipol airport in Amsterdam and Charles De Gaulle in Paris,France. KQ sold its PRIME spots in LHR.    Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
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obiero wrote:Mike Ock wrote:I know people are very invested here, but let's be honest with ourselves: Kenya Airways deserves to close, and GoK needs to leave the airline business alone. Why a government needs a national airline carrier is just beyond me! Watch this video to understand the why A private group of investors could still come through and make a Kenyan airline. And if a Kenyan airline proves unsustainable, we'll just use the international ones!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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Mike Ock wrote:I know people are very invested here, but let's be honest with ourselves: Kenya Airways deserves to close, and GoK needs to leave the airline business alone. Why a government needs a national airline carrier is just beyond me! GOK doesn't want KQ to default on its 200B loans. GOK would rather mortgage even our airports and aviation school to pay KQ debts instead of stemming the bleeding. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Mike Ock wrote:obiero wrote:Mike Ock wrote:I know people are very invested here, but let's be honest with ourselves: Kenya Airways deserves to close, and GoK needs to leave the airline business alone. Why a government needs a national airline carrier is just beyond me! Watch this video to understand the why A private group of investors could still come through and make a Kenyan airline. And if a Kenyan airline proves unsustainable, we'll just use the international ones! Aviation isn't cheap..
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/23/2014 Posts: 903
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Massive layoff at KQ as it sends home 182 pilots, cabin crew“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/6/2018 Posts: 292
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KALPA doesn't deserve any mercy
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/23/2014 Posts: 903
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Not too long ago there was all this drama, noise and strikes on the issue of retrenchment, and consolidation. Now they will have to watch ass it happens. “You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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KQ nationalisation is based on warped logic: that the only way it can become profitable is by making it part of airports authority hence saving it airport levies. However, BA is a profitable airline that operates from a private airport (Heathrow is a private business!). What are they doing that KQ isn't? Simple answer: theft!
Nationalisation will NOT solve theft in KQ. If anything, theft will increase!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:Mike Ock wrote:I know people are very invested here, but let's be honest with ourselves: Kenya Airways deserves to close, and GoK needs to leave the airline business alone. Why a government needs a national airline carrier is just beyond me! Watch this video to understand the why That guy Abraham, is shallow. He doesn't even know why KQ was privatised in the first place! He also assumes that Kenya needs KQ to export flowers. Flower exporters don't necessarily need a Kenyan airline - they just need an airline! Also, majority of our tourists come by chartered flights, not scheduled ones. My view is that nationalisation is ill-advised. But if we must do it, we don't have to buy the other outstanding shares. Se we can just let it be liquidated by the creditors; pick up the assets and form a new airline - New Kenya Airways? That way we don't even have to pay off the debts!
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/16/2019 Posts: 313
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chiaroscuro wrote:KQ nationalisation is based on warped logic: that the only way it can become profitable is by making it part of airports authority hence saving it airport levies. However, BA is a profitable airline that operates from a private airport (Heathrow is a private business!). What are they doing that KQ isn't? Simple answer: theft!
Nationalisation will NOT solve theft in KQ. If anything, theft will increase! I wish what you are saying is wrong. But the sad truth is that you are right. Re-nationalisation will not solve any of KQ deep seated problems. Infact it will just increase the amount of money to be looted and increase the amount of opacity. Some of the problems KQ faced when it was a parastal: How Moi commandeered KQ and flew it into financial turbulenceQuote:Once upon a time, Kenya Airways was the most abused parastatal. Its aircraft could be commandeered by State House — at times for a week — and flown to any destination the president wanted until he returned it. Quote:Flights would be cancelled and passengers, who had booked in advance, would be inconvenienced. As long as President Moi was happy, nobody cared about profits.
Quote:Once, Parliament was told that some of those ferried, ostensibly as part of presidential retinue, were a bunch of joyriders, court jesters and jokers.
Quote:Occasionally, the government would look for loans from a consortium of banks — and ask Parliament to approve the government guarantee.
That is what it did in 1985 when it took $100 million to purchase two Airbus aircraft from France — payable over 10 years.
The scandal in that deal was that 0.4 percent of the money was “commitment fee” while another 0.4 percent was listed as “management fee”. Quote:It also became the dumping ground of workers. At one point in 1988, the airline had only 11 aircraft and a workforce of 4,000.
It was also making huge losses, was badly run and was not filing any returns. Every year, Parliament would be asked to write-off KQ debts and Treasury would pump more cash into the bottomless hole. Above were some of the reasons why KQ was privatised. What will re-nationalisation achieve?
How will it eliminate mismanagement, theft and other vices ?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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kmucheke wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:KQ nationalisation is based on warped logic: that the only way it can become profitable is by making it part of airports authority hence saving it airport levies. However, BA is a profitable airline that operates from a private airport (Heathrow is a private business!). What are they doing that KQ isn't? Simple answer: theft!
Nationalisation will NOT solve theft in KQ. If anything, theft will increase! I wish what you are saying is wrong. But the sad truth is that you are right. Re-nationalisation will not solve any of KQ deep seated problems. Infact it will just increase the amount of money to be looted and increase the amount of opacity. Some of the problems KQ faced when it was a parastal: How Moi commandeered KQ and flew it into financial turbulenceQuote:Once upon a time, Kenya Airways was the most abused parastatal. Its aircraft could be commandeered by State House — at times for a week — and flown to any destination the president wanted until he returned it. Quote:Flights would be cancelled and passengers, who had booked in advance, would be inconvenienced. As long as President Moi was happy, nobody cared about profits.
Quote:Once, Parliament was told that some of those ferried, ostensibly as part of presidential retinue, were a bunch of joyriders, court jesters and jokers.
Quote:Occasionally, the government would look for loans from a consortium of banks — and ask Parliament to approve the government guarantee.
That is what it did in 1985 when it took $100 million to purchase two Airbus aircraft from France — payable over 10 years.
The scandal in that deal was that 0.4 percent of the money was “commitment fee” while another 0.4 percent was listed as “management fee”. Quote:It also became the dumping ground of workers. At one point in 1988, the airline had only 11 aircraft and a workforce of 4,000.
It was also making huge losses, was badly run and was not filing any returns. Every year, Parliament would be asked to write-off KQ debts and Treasury would pump more cash into the bottomless hole. Above were some of the reasons why KQ was privatised. What will re-nationalisation achieve?
How will it eliminate mismanagement, theft and other vices ?
The SPV would have addressed this, but wakenya ni wajanja! tulipe pesa zetu tuende 😆
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,639 Location: NAIROBI
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obiero wrote:kmucheke wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:KQ nationalisation is based on warped logic: that the only way it can become profitable is by making it part of airports authority hence saving it airport levies. However, BA is a profitable airline that operates from a private airport (Heathrow is a private business!). What are they doing that KQ isn't? Simple answer: theft!
Nationalisation will NOT solve theft in KQ. If anything, theft will increase! I wish what you are saying is wrong. But the sad truth is that you are right. Re-nationalisation will not solve any of KQ deep seated problems. Infact it will just increase the amount of money to be looted and increase the amount of opacity. Some of the problems KQ faced when it was a parastal: How Moi commandeered KQ and flew it into financial turbulenceQuote:Once upon a time, Kenya Airways was the most abused parastatal. Its aircraft could be commandeered by State House — at times for a week — and flown to any destination the president wanted until he returned it. Quote:Flights would be cancelled and passengers, who had booked in advance, would be inconvenienced. As long as President Moi was happy, nobody cared about profits.
Quote:Once, Parliament was told that some of those ferried, ostensibly as part of presidential retinue, were a bunch of joyriders, court jesters and jokers.
Quote:Occasionally, the government would look for loans from a consortium of banks — and ask Parliament to approve the government guarantee.
That is what it did in 1985 when it took $100 million to purchase two Airbus aircraft from France — payable over 10 years.
The scandal in that deal was that 0.4 percent of the money was “commitment fee” while another 0.4 percent was listed as “management fee”. Quote:It also became the dumping ground of workers. At one point in 1988, the airline had only 11 aircraft and a workforce of 4,000.
It was also making huge losses, was badly run and was not filing any returns. Every year, Parliament would be asked to write-off KQ debts and Treasury would pump more cash into the bottomless hole. Above were some of the reasons why KQ was privatised. What will re-nationalisation achieve?
How will it eliminate mismanagement, theft and other vices ?
The SPV would have addressed this, but wakenya ni wajanja! tulipe pesa zetu tuende 😆 SPV would have achieved nothing. Liabilities of KQ are too huge for JKIA to shoulder Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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