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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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tandich wrote:shadowinvestor wrote:Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half- Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively. Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
As the route is structured, KQ can't make money on cargo. I recently talked to someone who works in an airline. Dreamliner carries 42t of payload. However on a long flight, they have to sacrifice that payload to carry enough fuel. The plane is limited to a certain design maximum take off weight. When you subtract the fuel required to fly for 15 hours from this, they can only take up 27t. KQ has a configuration of 0/30/204 on their Dreamliner. Assuming each pax + bags is 100kg, the fully sold plane (which they seem to be struggling with getting behinds on seats) can theoretically only carry 3.6t of revenue cargo. For perspective, about 9,000 mangos or about 600 boxes of flowers; not much. On shorter flights of 8-10 hours, they can carry everything. The spare capacity (15t) is money left at the table and burnt on the altar of the prestige of non-stop flying. Not smart. There are a few ways this route could make money: * extremely expensive tickets (assuming they can find enough people to pay for the novelty) * stopover to - take up more passengers & cargo and/or - refuel * stop flying it to dedicate resources to more profitable undertakings * code share with an American carrier with a hub at JFK to feed them passengers * get a different aeroplane, that is not capacity-constrained, for the route. A350XWB or 777-200LR come to mind. {Ethiopian operates both types} I understand this is quite an emotive subject. But there are some tough questions that have been glossed over by the management for the hype. Quite irresponsible for a company in negative equity position, with its principle shareholders hardly in a position to inject additional capital. Also, I would have thought KQLC would be more prudent in safeguarding their interest by perhaps employing aviation finance advisors. Unrelated, the investment environment in Kenya is quite perilous. Especially when it comes to information. I have noticed journalists regurgitate press releases without critical enquiry. Auditor... Regulators... Additionally, investors, hardly take management to account (the AGM souvenir hunters take the cake). Seems like the only way to make money or safeguard your investments is to have people on the inside feeding you info. What is the solution? Logic then dictates that if there are 45 pax(or fewer than the configured Number of pax), KQ should therefore carry more cargo. Moreover, cargo has more revenue than pax. I guess KQ would be happy to fly 45 pax but the cargo belly be full. cargo to kenyaIf Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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@tandich - Thanks for the info. Question: As much as KQ keeps the sales window open as long as possible... If KQ knows it will only sell 100 seats [@100 kgs per seat] so there are 134 seat [@100kgs] = 12.4 tons available as cargo. Though I know it's tough to have perishable cargo on stand-by "hoping" for space. The more I read, from contributors, about the direct non-stop flight, the less exciting it seems. It seems a NBO-"West Africa"-NYC flight would have been a better bet by reducing 737 frequencies. 1) More cargo from NBO-"West Africa" [already being done] 2) NBO-West Africa pax [already being done] 3)West Africa-NYC pax 4) Less fuel used to carry additional fuel 5) Fewer cabin crew needed per flight since each leg is shorter. Of course, the flights would also fly vice versa. West Africa means a busy airport (eg ACC) that is CAT 1 compliant and can be fed for connecting pax. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:tandich wrote:shadowinvestor wrote:Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half- Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively. Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
As the route is structured, KQ can't make money on cargo. I recently talked to someone who works in an airline. Dreamliner carries 42t of payload. However on a long flight, they have to sacrifice that payload to carry enough fuel. The plane is limited to a certain design maximum take off weight. When you subtract the fuel required to fly for 15 hours from this, they can only take up 27t. KQ has a configuration of 0/30/204 on their Dreamliner. Assuming each pax + bags is 100kg, the fully sold plane (which they seem to be struggling with getting behinds on seats) can theoretically only carry 3.6t of revenue cargo. For perspective, about 9,000 mangos or about 600 boxes of flowers; not much. On shorter flights of 8-10 hours, they can carry everything. The spare capacity (15t) is money left at the table and burnt on the altar of the prestige of non-stop flying. Not smart. There are a few ways this route could make money: * extremely expensive tickets (assuming they can find enough people to pay for the novelty) * stopover to - take up more passengers & cargo and/or - refuel * stop flying it to dedicate resources to more profitable undertakings * code share with an American carrier with a hub at JFK to feed them passengers * get a different aeroplane, that is not capacity-constrained, for the route. A350XWB or 777-200LR come to mind. {Ethiopian operates both types} I understand this is quite an emotive subject. But there are some tough questions that have been glossed over by the management for the hype. Quite irresponsible for a company in negative equity position, with its principle shareholders hardly in a position to inject additional capital. Also, I would have thought KQLC would be more prudent in safeguarding their interest by perhaps employing aviation finance advisors. Unrelated, the investment environment in Kenya is quite perilous. Especially when it comes to information. I have noticed journalists regurgitate press releases without critical enquiry. Auditor... Regulators... Additionally, investors, hardly take management to account (the AGM souvenir hunters take the cake). Seems like the only way to make money or safeguard your investments is to have people on the inside feeding you info. What is the solution? Logic then dictates that if there are 45 pax(or fewer than the configured Number of pax), KQ should therefore carry more pax. Moreover, cargo has more revenue than pax. I guess KQ would be happy to fly 45 pax but the cargo belly be full. cargo to kenya Doesn't KLM have a 747-Combi that flies to NBO and has the "rear" dedicated to cargo? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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I have been saying this! https://www.youtube.com/...MY&feature=youtu.be
Let "Old KQ" die and "New KQ" can inherit the BASAs, etc. The "New KQ" can buy/inherit the good assets from "Old KQ" and not the liabilities (staff, debt, etc)... Let new investors invest in "New KQ" which can then make sensible economic decisions. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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VituVingiSana wrote:@tandich - Thanks for the info.
Question: As much as KQ keeps the sales window open as long as possible... If KQ knows it will only sell 100 seats [@100 kgs per seat] so there are 134 seat [@100kgs] = 12.4 tons available as cargo. Though I know it's tough to have perishable cargo on stand-by "hoping" for space.
The more I read, from contributors, about the direct non-stop flight, the less exciting it seems. It seems a NBO-"West Africa"-NYC flight would have been a better bet by reducing 737 frequencies. 1) More cargo from NBO-"West Africa" [already being done] 2) NBO-West Africa pax [already being done] 3)West Africa-NYC pax 4) Less fuel used to carry additional fuel 5) Fewer cabin crew needed per flight since each leg is shorter.
Of course, the flights would also fly vice versa. West Africa means a busy airport (eg ACC) that is CAT 1 compliant and can be fed for connecting pax. Can @maka provide cargo stats for kq002&3 along with pax numbers. In my thinking,cargo shouldn't be on standby but should be first come first served whether pax or cargo as long as they don't exceed payload If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Nganya ziko chrome....zote from east, west, north and south.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Zichi wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:"We are like 45. So everyone has a row of seats to just bangaiza. #KQNBONYC"
What's the capacity of biz class? What's the capacity of cattle class? What would the estimated breakeven load factor be? Biz 30 economy 234 Premier 30 economy 204 HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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muandiwambeu wrote:tandich wrote:shadowinvestor wrote:Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half- Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively. Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
As the route is structured, KQ can't make money on cargo. I recently talked to someone who works in an airline. Dreamliner carries 42t of payload. However on a long flight, they have to sacrifice that payload to carry enough fuel. The plane is limited to a certain design maximum take off weight. When you subtract the fuel required to fly for 15 hours from this, they can only take up 27t. KQ has a configuration of 0/30/204 on their Dreamliner. Assuming each pax + bags is 100kg, the fully sold plane (which they seem to be struggling with getting behinds on seats) can theoretically only carry 3.6t of revenue cargo. For perspective, about 9,000 mangos or about 600 boxes of flowers; not much. On shorter flights of 8-10 hours, they can carry everything. The spare capacity (15t) is money left at the table and burnt on the altar of the prestige of non-stop flying. Not smart. There are a few ways this route could make money: * extremely expensive tickets (assuming they can find enough people to pay for the novelty) * stopover to - take up more passengers & cargo and/or - refuel * stop flying it to dedicate resources to more profitable undertakings * code share with an American carrier with a hub at JFK to feed them passengers * get a different aeroplane, that is not capacity-constrained, for the route. A350XWB or 777-200LR come to mind. {Ethiopian operates both types} I understand this is quite an emotive subject. But there are some tough questions that have been glossed over by the management for the hype. Quite irresponsible for a company in negative equity position, with its principle shareholders hardly in a position to inject additional capital. Also, I would have thought KQLC would be more prudent in safeguarding their interest by perhaps employing aviation finance advisors. Unrelated, the investment environment in Kenya is quite perilous. Especially when it comes to information. I have noticed journalists regurgitate press releases without critical enquiry. Auditor... Regulators... Additionally, investors, hardly take management to account (the AGM souvenir hunters take the cake). Seems like the only way to make money or safeguard your investments is to have people on the inside feeding you info. What is the solution? Thus not an optimal decision at all. Why not refuel bon air. Simply station three tankers at see and uplift fuel at the right moment. Kwani iko niny, I can station my refuel station in air so long as kq is willing to pay me cash. Ni hayo too. You know, the CEO of KQ being an experienced aviation executive with turnaround experience probably knows more on the viability than most of us. The route is not dead as some people, some saboteurs want to make it seem HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/13/2008 Posts: 75
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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This turnaround for KQ will be unprecedented. Nothing can stop reggae and I am certain that I am not brighter than Mikosz or MJ in matters management so I chose to keep quiet and watch my portfolio grow HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 8/1/2018 Posts: 60 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:This turnaround for KQ will be unprecedented. Nothing can stop reggae and I am certain that I am not brighter than Mikosz or MJ in matters management so I chose to keep quiet and watch my portfolio grow @Obiero, should we expect any substantial announcement on the KAA deal? You had earlier predicted there would be an agreement by end of Nov 2018.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Kibe21 wrote:obiero wrote:This turnaround for KQ will be unprecedented. Nothing can stop reggae and I am certain that I am not brighter than Mikosz or MJ in matters management so I chose to keep quiet and watch my portfolio grow @Obiero, should we expect any substantial announcement on the KAA deal? You had earlier predicted there would be an agreement by end of Nov 2018. Remain very hopeful about the merger of KQ with KAA via JKIA concession. Its a done deal awaiting firming up of loose ends, especially with staff HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:I have been saying this! https://www.youtube.com/...MY&feature=youtu.be
Let "Old KQ" die and "New KQ" can inherit the BASAs, etc. The "New KQ" can buy/inherit the good assets from "Old KQ" and not the liabilities (staff, debt, etc)... Let new investors invest in "New KQ" which can then make sensible economic decisions. Similar opinion. As it is, KQ with drag down KAA with it. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:I have been saying this! https://www.youtube.com/...MY&feature=youtu.be
Let "Old KQ" die and "New KQ" can inherit the BASAs, etc. The "New KQ" can buy/inherit the good assets from "Old KQ" and not the liabilities (staff, debt, etc)... Let new investors invest in "New KQ" which can then make sensible economic decisions. Similar opinion. As it is, KQ with drag down KAA with it. Your level of pessimism is unparalleled HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:I have been saying this! https://www.youtube.com/...MY&feature=youtu.be
Let "Old KQ" die and "New KQ" can inherit the BASAs, etc. The "New KQ" can buy/inherit the good assets from "Old KQ" and not the liabilities (staff, debt, etc)... Let new investors invest in "New KQ" which can then make sensible economic decisions. Similar opinion. As it is, KQ with drag down KAA with it. Your level of pessimism is unparalleled Guilty as charged. Dumped KQ three years ago. Since then, the stock has lost 70% of its value. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,175 Location: nairobi
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sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:I have been saying this! https://www.youtube.com/...MY&feature=youtu.be
Let "Old KQ" die and "New KQ" can inherit the BASAs, etc. The "New KQ" can buy/inherit the good assets from "Old KQ" and not the liabilities (staff, debt, etc)... Let new investors invest in "New KQ" which can then make sensible economic decisions. Similar opinion. As it is, KQ with drag down KAA with it. Your level of pessimism is unparalleled Guilty as charged. Dumped KQ three years ago. Since then, the stock has lost 70% of its value. Kq is among 2019 stocks to watch according to analyst mlennyma "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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KQ vs Apple? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:I have been saying this! https://www.youtube.com/...MY&feature=youtu.be
Let "Old KQ" die and "New KQ" can inherit the BASAs, etc. The "New KQ" can buy/inherit the good assets from "Old KQ" and not the liabilities (staff, debt, etc)... Let new investors invest in "New KQ" which can then make sensible economic decisions. Similar opinion. As it is, KQ with drag down KAA with it. Your level of pessimism is unparalleled Guilty as charged. Dumped KQ three years ago. Since then, the stock has lost 70% of its value. Dumped KQ in 2012. Bought KK, ACCS, NIC, Unga, etc among other shares. It's not that these purchases have done so well as much as KQ has cratered. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:I have been saying this! https://www.youtube.com/...MY&feature=youtu.be
Let "Old KQ" die and "New KQ" can inherit the BASAs, etc. The "New KQ" can buy/inherit the good assets from "Old KQ" and not the liabilities (staff, debt, etc)... Let new investors invest in "New KQ" which can then make sensible economic decisions. Similar opinion. As it is, KQ with drag down KAA with it. Your level of pessimism is unparalleled Guilty as charged. Dumped KQ three years ago. Since then, the stock has lost 70% of its value. Dumped KQ in 2012. Bought KK, ACCS, NIC, Unga, etc among other shares. It's not that these purchases have done so well as much as KQ has cratered. People really love to hate on KQ.. It’s like an obsession HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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