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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:Liv wrote:hardwood wrote:maka wrote:Liv wrote:obiero wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters. 38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly Who are the real businessmen here? Which new business picks up and becomes profitable in days or even months?
38% load is a starting point.... shouldn't we be more concerned about the trend from that point on rather than its size now since the route has just began?
Aren't some people here just like the proverbial chicken shouting "the sky is falling" .... Every day at anything? Nothing good happens in kenya?
In my view as a long standing shareholder JFK is a good route and KQ should continue marketing it until it becomes profitable. No business is easy.
Il remind you of your sagely words in the near future.... No one denies that business is tough... You need to have skin in the game etc... In the end NYC was and will never be a good route... Never... How come I support Mogadishu.... Extra flights to CT.... Libreville... Some areas of Europe.... Simple they make business sense and will turn in a profit fast... NYC doesn't... Setting up Mogadishu hasn't been a walk in the park... But the costs are way manageable... You squeeze the ground handler and tell them you want USD600 for every plane that lands... They will have to give you that... That flight will always have the numbers... lucrative route...Quick turnaround and its back... More money for KQ... I think mogadishu is a bad idea. Particularly when we are still fighting alshabab and also doing JFK. Mogadishu should wait for another 3 years as we see how things pan out. I agree KQ shouldn't be in a hurry to start Mogadishu for security reasons. Alshabab can do anything to down a plane. That has been sorted.... Hapa @maka you disappoint me .. How has the threat been sorted?
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/13/2012 Posts: 139
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Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half-
Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively.
Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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shadowinvestor wrote:Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half-
Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively.
Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
@maka thinks otherwise..
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/13/2012 Posts: 139
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In the airline industry, there is focus so much on passenger comfort, class etc yet airlines hardly make money actually investors always lose their investment in the long run. People forget the need of transportation is to move from point A to B. Budget airlines approached this need in a unique way and most make money. Cargo airlines are the workhorse(money earner) for the company- They haul and make cash, they can be delayed without twitting and complaining/getting overnight stays in 5 star hotels. Kenya play has been commodities, we have preferential entry of goods unlike people, to the USA, cost of production is very low. Why not compete with mexico from here. obiero wrote:shadowinvestor wrote:Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half-
Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively.
Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
@maka thinks otherwise..
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:For those asking 001 ni ndege ya rais. Was he on the first flight to NYC? If yes, why wasn't it called KQ001? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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VituVingiSana wrote:murchr wrote:For those asking 001 ni ndege ya rais. Was he on the first flight to NYC? If yes, why wasn't it called KQ001? No he was not. Numbering 001 is reserved for the presidential jet. That flies anywhere when he so pleases "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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hardwood wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters. 38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly Jesus Christ @Obiero....I said il stop posting but... I feel like strangling you.... Aaaargh.... The commercial viability of this flight is almost nil... Lets focus on Mogadishu next 2 weeks.... Forget NYC.... Forget kabisa.... BTW Mikosz had also been advised to fly to Dakar or Accra.... Then onwards to US this would have worked 110% he refused... He has already made his name... Watch him go to another carrier.... Check this after Kapirwok left The Strategy committee.. KQ doesn't do its strategy in-house ... They outsource to some silly firm that knows nothing about the airline industry....The connection between strategy and network planning is non existent hence the goofs... This is akin to emirates routing their Dubai - US flights via JKIA. KQ and kenya would never allow that. Note senegal and ghana have direct US flights and would have protested any move by KQ to snatch their customers. Also I believe JKIA was approved as a last point of departure and therefore the US authorities would never allow KQ to make stop overs enroute to the US. Questions: 1) Does Senegal and Ghana have national airlines? [I thought the national airlines were dead] 2) If they don't have a national (or local) airline flying from Dakar/Accra to USA, then wouldn't they welcome competition? If all permissions were received, and if KQ did fly NBO-Dakar/ACC-USA, could it not reduce one 737 frequency to Dakar/ACC as well as pick up more USA-bound pax from Dakar/ACC? They should still try this route for ATL or DC to cater for the African diaspora. I am rooting for KQ as an (unfortunate) shareholder via GoK and KQLC. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:hardwood wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters. 38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly Jesus Christ @Obiero....I said il stop posting but... I feel like strangling you.... Aaaargh.... The commercial viability of this flight is almost nil... Lets focus on Mogadishu next 2 weeks.... Forget NYC.... Forget kabisa.... BTW Mikosz had also been advised to fly to Dakar or Accra.... Then onwards to US this would have worked 110% he refused... He has already made his name... Watch him go to another carrier.... Check this after Kapirwok left The Strategy committee.. KQ doesn't do its strategy in-house ... They outsource to some silly firm that knows nothing about the airline industry....The connection between strategy and network planning is non existent hence the goofs... This is akin to emirates routing their Dubai - US flights via JKIA. KQ and kenya would never allow that. Note senegal and ghana have direct US flights and would have protested any move by KQ to snatch their customers. Also I believe JKIA was approved as a last point of departure and therefore the US authorities would never allow KQ to make stop overs enroute to the US. Questions: 1) Does Senegal and Ghana have national airlines? [I thought the national airlines were dead] 2) If they don't have a national (or local) airline flying from Dakar/Accra to USA, then wouldn't they welcome competition? If all permissions were received, and if KQ did fly NBO-Dakar/ACC-USA, could it not reduce one 737 frequency to Dakar/ACC as well as pick up more USA-bound pax from Dakar/ACC? They should still try this route for ATL or DC to cater for the African diaspora. I am rooting for KQ as an (unfortunate) shareholder via GoK and KQLC. That was the brought up during planning the good CEO turned it down... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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Mimi nikiwa utawala huona vile ndege za kwenda Juba, Entebbe,mombasa, Dar,london and Amsterdam zikistruggle ku-take off nimeconcluded those are the most profitable routes since inakaa huwa zinabeba watu wa kusimama. KQ should elimate most of the routes and remain with those 6 destinations. You are better of making a profit of Kes 20,000 out of Kes 100, 000 revenues than make 24 birrion loss out of a revenues of 100birrion #pesamfukonieconomics101# If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:Mimi nikiwa utawala huona vile ndege za kwenda Juba, Entebbe,mombasa, Dar,london and Amsterdam zikistruggle ku-take off nimeconcluded those are the most profitable routes since inakaa huwa zinabeba watu wa kusimama. KQ should elimate most of the routes and remain with those 6 destinations. You are better of making a profit of Kes 20,000 out of Kes 100, 000 revenues than make 24 birrion loss out of a revenues of 100birrion
#pesamfukonieconomics101# GoK and @Obiero disagree with your assessment! Lakini, #TukoPamoja Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:Swenani wrote:Mimi nikiwa utawala huona vile ndege za kwenda Juba, Entebbe,mombasa, Dar,london and Amsterdam zikistruggle ku-take off nimeconcluded those are the most profitable routes since inakaa huwa zinabeba watu wa kusimama. KQ should elimate most of the routes and remain with those 6 destinations. You are better of making a profit of Kes 20,000 out of Kes 100, 000 revenues than make 24 birrion loss out of a revenues of 100birrion
#pesamfukonieconomics101# GoK and @Obiero disagree with your assessment! Lakini, #TukoPamoja Total balderdash.. Jambojet can fly regional while KQ goes continental, intercontinental.. If SAA, FlyET can have daily flights to NYC over the last 40 odd years why shouldn’t KQ
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Swenani wrote:Mimi nikiwa utawala huona vile ndege za kwenda Juba, Entebbe,mombasa, Dar,london and Amsterdam zikistruggle ku-take off nimeconcluded those are the most profitable routes since inakaa huwa zinabeba watu wa kusimama. KQ should elimate most of the routes and remain with those 6 destinations. You are better of making a profit of Kes 20,000 out of Kes 100, 000 revenues than make 24 birrion loss out of a revenues of 100birrion
#pesamfukonieconomics101# GoK and @Obiero disagree with your assessment! Lakini, #TukoPamoja Total balderdash.. Jambojet can fly regional while KQ goes continental, intercontinental.. If SAA, FlyET can have daily flights to NYC over the last 40 odd years why shouldn’t KQ possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/30/2016 Posts: 217 Location: Talai
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obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Swenani wrote:Mimi nikiwa utawala huona vile ndege za kwenda Juba, Entebbe,mombasa, Dar,london and Amsterdam zikistruggle ku-take off nimeconcluded those are the most profitable routes since inakaa huwa zinabeba watu wa kusimama. KQ should elimate most of the routes and remain with those 6 destinations. You are better of making a profit of Kes 20,000 out of Kes 100, 000 revenues than make 24 birrion loss out of a revenues of 100birrion
#pesamfukonieconomics101# GoK and @Obiero disagree with your assessment! Lakini, #TukoPamoja Total balderdash.. Jambojet can fly regional while KQ goes continental, intercontinental.. If SAA, FlyET can have daily flights to NYC over the last 40 odd years why shouldn’t KQ RIGHT NOW IAM POSTING THIS KQ CRUISING NORTH ATLANTIC OCEAN TO NAIROBI AND ANOTHER CLIMBING and CRUISING TOWARDS L.Victoria Headed to JKF,NEWYORK.I wish I can post the images for the doubting thomases....  Watch and Listen and Live
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Swenani wrote:Mimi nikiwa utawala huona vile ndege za kwenda Juba, Entebbe,mombasa, Dar,london and Amsterdam zikistruggle ku-take off nimeconcluded those are the most profitable routes since inakaa huwa zinabeba watu wa kusimama. KQ should elimate most of the routes and remain with those 6 destinations. You are better of making a profit of Kes 20,000 out of Kes 100, 000 revenues than make 24 birrion loss out of a revenues of 100birrion
#pesamfukonieconomics101# GoK and @Obiero disagree with your assessment! Lakini, #TukoPamoja Total balderdash.. Jambojet can fly regional while KQ goes continental, intercontinental.. If SAA, FlyET can have daily flights to NYC over the last 40 odd years why shouldn’t KQ Someone getting pissed off at seeing white peoples in a white man country. Is it KQ fault that she couldn’t afford premier class?
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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"We are like 45. So everyone has a row of seats to just bangaiza. #KQNBONYC" What's the capacity of biz class? What's the capacity of cattle class? What would the estimated breakeven load factor be? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/24/2017 Posts: 44
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VituVingiSana wrote:"We are like 45. So everyone has a row of seats to just bangaiza.
#KQNBONYC"
What's the capacity of biz class?
What's the capacity of cattle class?
What would the estimated breakeven load factor be? Biz 30 economy 234
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/6/2008 Posts: 199
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shadowinvestor wrote:Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half-
Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively.
Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
As the route is structured, KQ can't make money on cargo. I recently talked to someone who works in an airline. Dreamliner carries 42t of payload. However on a long flight, they have to sacrifice that payload to carry enough fuel. The plane is limited to a certain design maximum take off weight. When you subtract the fuel required to fly for 15 hours from this, they can only take up 27t. KQ has a configuration of 0/30/204 on their Dreamliner. Assuming each pax + bags is 100kg, the fully sold plane (which they seem to be struggling with getting behinds on seats) can theoretically only carry 3.6t of revenue cargo. For perspective, about 9,000 mangos or about 600 boxes of flowers; not much. On shorter flights of 8-10 hours, they can carry everything. The spare capacity (15t) is money left at the table and burnt on the altar of the prestige of non-stop flying. Not smart. There are a few ways this route could make money: * extremely expensive tickets (assuming they can find enough people to pay for the novelty) * stopover to - take up more passengers & cargo and/or - refuel * stop flying it to dedicate resources to more profitable undertakings * code share with an American carrier with a hub at JFK to feed them passengers * get a different aeroplane, that is not capacity-constrained, for the route. A350XWB or 777-200LR come to mind. {Ethiopian operates both types} I understand this is quite an emotive subject. But there are some tough questions that have been glossed over by the management for the hype. Quite irresponsible for a company in negative equity position, with its principle shareholders hardly in a position to inject additional capital. Also, I would have thought KQLC would be more prudent in safeguarding their interest by perhaps employing aviation finance advisors. Unrelated, the investment environment in Kenya is quite perilous. Especially when it comes to information. I have noticed journalists regurgitate press releases without critical enquiry. Auditor... Regulators... Additionally, investors, hardly take management to account (the AGM souvenir hunters take the cake). Seems like the only way to make money or safeguard your investments is to have people on the inside feeding you info. What is the solution?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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tandich wrote:shadowinvestor wrote:Mostly unseen in this dabate is the impact of Cargo. KQ in the 2007+ era went heavy in flying fruits and stuff to Dubai- Made a killing and half-
Focus on this route should include dedicated cargo plane/price cargo competitively.
Kenyan flowers arrive in Amsterdam to be resent to New York, there are clear savings hapo. Factor in the lower requirements for horticulture standards in USA than EU makes it a investors paradise.
As the route is structured, KQ can't make money on cargo. I recently talked to someone who works in an airline. Dreamliner carries 42t of payload. However on a long flight, they have to sacrifice that payload to carry enough fuel. The plane is limited to a certain design maximum take off weight. When you subtract the fuel required to fly for 15 hours from this, they can only take up 27t. KQ has a configuration of 0/30/204 on their Dreamliner. Assuming each pax + bags is 100kg, the fully sold plane (which they seem to be struggling with getting behinds on seats) can theoretically only carry 3.6t of revenue cargo. For perspective, about 9,000 mangos or about 600 boxes of flowers; not much. On shorter flights of 8-10 hours, they can carry everything. The spare capacity (15t) is money left at the table and burnt on the altar of the prestige of non-stop flying. Not smart. There are a few ways this route could make money: * extremely expensive tickets (assuming they can find enough people to pay for the novelty) * stopover to - take up more passengers & cargo and/or - refuel * stop flying it to dedicate resources to more profitable undertakings * code share with an American carrier with a hub at JFK to feed them passengers * get a different aeroplane, that is not capacity-constrained, for the route. A350XWB or 777-200LR come to mind. {Ethiopian operates both types} I understand this is quite an emotive subject. But there are some tough questions that have been glossed over by the management for the hype. Quite irresponsible for a company in negative equity position, with its principle shareholders hardly in a position to inject additional capital. Also, I would have thought KQLC would be more prudent in safeguarding their interest by perhaps employing aviation finance advisors. Unrelated, the investment environment in Kenya is quite perilous. Especially when it comes to information. I have noticed journalists regurgitate press releases without critical enquiry. Auditor... Regulators... Additionally, investors, hardly take management to account (the AGM souvenir hunters take the cake). Seems like the only way to make money or safeguard your investments is to have people on the inside feeding you info. What is the solution? Thus not an optimal decision at all. Why not refuel bon air. Simply station three tankers at see and uplift fuel at the right moment.  Kwani iko niny, I can station my refuel station in air so long as kq is willing to pay me cash. Ni hayo too. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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News from down South....👇🏾👇🏾👇🏾 https://ewn.co.za/2018/1...-should-be-closed-down. The video to that.... https://youtu.be/KcAuuRBr2MYpossunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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[quote=maka]News from down South....👇🏾👇🏾👇🏾 https://ewn.co.za/2018/1...-should-be-closed-down. The video to that.... https://youtu.be/KcAuuRBr2MY[/quote] wasn't KQ going into some sort of partnership/JV with SAA? I bet this would be good news for KQ and ET? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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