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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
VituVingiSana
#11141 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:20:05 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,060
Location: Nairobi
@maka and @tandich - Thanks for the info!
I hope the route is profitable but I can see why it's a much costlier flight given the expenses of a larger crew + HOTAC + carrying additional fuel.

If there were more pax, a larger plane would have made better sense given the increase in the number crew (esp pilots) isn't always proportional to the number of pax.

I am rooting for KQ but I do not want another GoK bailout. Definitely NOT more funding from KQLC.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#11142 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:52:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
@maka and @tandich - Thanks for the info!
I hope the route is profitable but I can see why it's a much costlier flight given the expenses of a larger crew + HOTAC + carrying additional fuel.

If there were more pax, a larger plane would have made better sense given the increase in the number crew (esp pilots) isn't always proportional to the number of pax.

I am rooting for KQ but I do not want another GoK bailout. Definitely NOT more funding from KQLC.

The fuel efficiency of the 787 is unrivaled. Larger meaning which type?

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
obiero
#11143 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:55:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@maka

What happened to KQ001?

If KQ002 (5Y-KZE) left NBO for JFK at 11pm on 28th Oct for a 15 hours and got to JFK at 7am on 29th Oct.
I assume a quick turnaround for the same bird but now as KQ003 (JFK-NBO) departure at 1pm on 29th Oct with arrival in NBO at 9.30am (scheduled 10.30am) on 30th Oct.

Was there a KQ002 flight from NBO-JFK on 29th Oct?

If no, then is it a 3x week flight for now?


It was there.... On Monday.... Captain Kinuthia and the first crew are coming back this morning with Sebastian...

Check this at any given time they will be 30 crew at the NYC hotel...
Everybody but the Shareholders make money off KQ!
KQ should just lease/buy a 40-room motel in NYC at this rate!

You make it seem like the crew to Asia sleep in the streets. This is aviation! Its just how it is and the management were aware that each plane needs crew.. Overanalyzing ordinary matters

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
hardwood
#11144 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:21:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
New holiday destination...


VituVingiSana
#11145 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:28:51 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,060
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@maka and @tandich - Thanks for the info!
I hope the route is profitable but I can see why it's a much costlier flight given the expenses of a larger crew + HOTAC + carrying additional fuel.

If there were more pax, a larger plane would have made better sense given the increase in the number crew (esp pilots) isn't always proportional to the number of pax.

I am rooting for KQ but I do not want another GoK bailout. Definitely NOT more funding from KQLC.

The fuel efficiency of the 787 is unrivaled. Larger meaning which type?
If the pax numbers are there then a 787-9 [if available to KQ].
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#11146 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:28:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
For those asking 001 ni ndege ya rais.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
lochaz-index
#11147 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 7:10:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
obiero
#11148 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 7:19:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Zichi
#11149 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 8:32:46 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/24/2017
Posts: 44
ArrestedDev wrote:
maka wrote:
obiero wrote:
tandich wrote:
maka wrote:
hardwood wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@maka

What happened to KQ001?

If KQ002 (5Y-KZE) left NBO for JFK at 11pm on 28th Oct for a 15 hours and got to JFK at 7am on 29th Oct.
I assume a quick turnaround for the same bird but now as KQ003 (JFK-NBO) departure at 1pm on 29th Oct with arrival in NBO at 9.30am (scheduled 10.30am) on 30th Oct.

Was there a KQ002 flight from NBO-JFK on 29th Oct?

If no, then is it a 3x week flight for now?


Daily flights.
28th KQ2 was KZG, returned 30th (EAT) as KQ3
29th KQ2 was KZC, returned today 31st (EAT) as KQ3
30TH KQ2 was KZG, currently in middle of atlantic headed to NY, will return tmr 9.30 EAT as KQ3
31st KQ2 will be KZC.

2 planes KZG and KZC being used for the route. Cpt Kinuthia left on 28 with KZG but returned today 31st with KZC.


Tell us about how fast the pax numbers are dwindling...I am totally sorry about sounding like a broken record... This is the last I will talk about how bad the move was....



@maka
Do you have data on revenue passengers on those flights? Financial performance? Seems it is dire.

All these seem to be lost within the PR blitz. Sadly, but true, a pig is a pig no matter how much lipstick you apply. In my view, here is a future excuse similar to Ebola.

Any new routes in aviation take an average of three years to break even


Does KQ have 3 years? To pay for a non profitable route? Do they have the money?

Il get you the data @Tandich...acha ichape mwezi...moja ama mbili hivi...

Some KQ insider gave Alai some 411...

https://www.kahawatungu....w-york-not-sustainable/






It is not detailed as such to determine if the claims made are factual. Just to deconstruct the story,

- one plane was returned from a sub-lease arrangement and now KQ will pay the lease cost.
- the Dreamliner cargo belly has space for cargo. I saw the cargo storage space reserved for US destined flowers at the Cargo warehouse was full, courtesy of Quest means business

Even if this route initially operate on a loss, there are significant measures already taken to stop wastage in KQ as you have reported here e.g.

- capping of foreign station allowance to $ 400
- staff rationalization in Lagos station
- sourcing of spare parts and rotables directly from Boeing
- ending of buddy tickets scheme to curb misuse and tap full revenue tickets
- reduction of baggage allowance on intra-Africa flights to tap more revenue from cargo and excess baggage
- introduction of EUR as an additional ticket payment currency especially in Europe
- streamlining of the procurement function i.e. implementation of the forensic audit findings - terminating key staff in supply chain and fuel procurement
- short term fuel hedging contracts
- additional routes to come on board, more frequencies already added to CPT, SYZ
- new catering menu will save costs on short haul flights. It was actually a downgrade for the short haul routes and means more profit. It is was cleverly done like the baggage reduction

I believe there are more initiatives already undertaken/ to come. Even the reduction of the frequencies on this new route will have a huge impact on the bottom line i.e. minimise the anticipated losses.



If the numbers don't pick up this route will wipe out all the gains made this year. When you're using circa kes 5m worth of fuel one way and carrying 100 pax, the loss is in multiples of millions per day.
At the current introductory prices KQ needs at least 150 economy pax to break even
maka
#11150 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 8:45:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Jesus Christ @Obiero....I said il stop posting but... I feel like strangling you.... Aaaargh.... The commercial viability of this flight is almost nil... Lets focus on Mogadishu next 2 weeks.... Forget NYC.... Forget kabisa....

BTW Mikosz had also been advised to fly to Dakar or Accra.... Then onwards to US this would have worked 110% he refused... He has already made his name... Watch him go to another carrier....

Check this after Kapirwok left The Strategy committee.. KQ doesn't do its strategy in-house ... They outsource to some silly firm that knows nothing about the airline industry....The connection between strategy and network planning is non existent hence the goofs...


possunt quia posse videntur
hardwood
#11151 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 9:08:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
maka wrote:
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Jesus Christ @Obiero....I said il stop posting but... I feel like strangling you.... Aaaargh.... The commercial viability of this flight is almost nil... Lets focus on Mogadishu next 2 weeks.... Forget NYC.... Forget kabisa....

BTW Mikosz had also been advised to fly to Dakar or Accra.... Then onwards to US this would have worked 110% he refused... He has already made his name... Watch him go to another carrier....

Check this after Kapirwok left The Strategy committee.. KQ doesn't do its strategy in-house ... They outsource to some silly firm that knows nothing about the airline industry....The connection between strategy and network planning is non existent hence the goofs...




So what's the way forward? They drop the JFK route after 3 days of operation?
hardwood
#11152 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 9:24:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
maka wrote:
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Jesus Christ @Obiero....I said il stop posting but... I feel like strangling you.... Aaaargh.... The commercial viability of this flight is almost nil... Lets focus on Mogadishu next 2 weeks.... Forget NYC.... Forget kabisa....

BTW Mikosz had also been advised to fly to Dakar or Accra.... Then onwards to US this would have worked 110% he refused... He has already made his name... Watch him go to another carrier....

Check this after Kapirwok left The Strategy committee.. KQ doesn't do its strategy in-house ... They outsource to some silly firm that knows nothing about the airline industry....The connection between strategy and network planning is non existent hence the goofs...





This is akin to emirates routing their Dubai - US flights via JKIA. KQ and kenya would never allow that. Note senegal and ghana have direct US flights and would have protested any move by KQ to snatch their customers.

Also I believe JKIA was approved as a last point of departure and therefore the US authorities would never allow KQ to make stop overs enroute to the US.
hardwood
#11153 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 9:52:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
KQ3 from NY has just landed at JKIA. How are the numbers from the US?
Liv
#11154 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 10:15:42 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Who are the real businessmen here? Which new business picks up and becomes profitable in days or even months?

38% load is a starting point.... shouldn't we be more concerned about the trend from that point on rather than its size now since the route has just began?

Aren't some people here just like the proverbial chicken shouting "the sky is falling" .... Every day at anything? Nothing good happens in kenya?

In my view as a long standing shareholder JFK is a good route and KQ should continue marketing it until it becomes profitable. No business is easy.







maka
#11155 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 10:26:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
KQ3 from NY has just landed at JKIA. How are the numbers from the US?


Pathetic....

From next week we are down to 3 flights a week... Then 2...Then...
possunt quia posse videntur
maka
#11156 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 10:33:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Liv wrote:
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Who are the real businessmen here? Which new business picks up and becomes profitable in days or even months?

38% load is a starting point.... shouldn't we be more concerned about the trend from that point on rather than its size now since the route has just began?

Aren't some people here just like the proverbial chicken shouting "the sky is falling" .... Every day at anything? Nothing good happens in kenya?

In my view as a long standing shareholder JFK is a good route and KQ should continue marketing it until it becomes profitable. No business is easy.









Il remind you of your sagely words in the near future.... No one denies that business is tough... You need to have skin in the game etc...
In the end NYC was and will never be a good route... Never... How come I support Mogadishu.... Extra flights to CT.... Libreville... Some areas of Europe.... Simple they make business sense and will turn in a profit fast... NYC doesn't... Setting up Mogadishu hasn't been a walk in the park... But the costs are way manageable... You squeeze the ground handler and tell them you want USD600 for every plane that lands... They will have to give you that... That flight will always have the numbers... lucrative route...Quick turnaround and its back... More money for KQ...
possunt quia posse videntur
hardwood
#11157 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 10:57:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
maka wrote:
Liv wrote:
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Who are the real businessmen here? Which new business picks up and becomes profitable in days or even months?

38% load is a starting point.... shouldn't we be more concerned about the trend from that point on rather than its size now since the route has just began?

Aren't some people here just like the proverbial chicken shouting "the sky is falling" .... Every day at anything? Nothing good happens in kenya?

In my view as a long standing shareholder JFK is a good route and KQ should continue marketing it until it becomes profitable. No business is easy.









Il remind you of your sagely words in the near future.... No one denies that business is tough... You need to have skin in the game etc...
In the end NYC was and will never be a good route... Never... How come I support Mogadishu.... Extra flights to CT.... Libreville... Some areas of Europe.... Simple they make business sense and will turn in a profit fast... NYC doesn't... Setting up Mogadishu hasn't been a walk in the park... But the costs are way manageable... You squeeze the ground handler and tell them you want USD600 for every plane that lands... They will have to give you that... That flight will always have the numbers... lucrative route...Quick turnaround and its back... More money for KQ...


I think mogadishu is a bad idea. Particularly when we are still fighting alshabab and also doing JFK. Mogadishu should wait for another 3 years as we see how things pan out.
freiks
#11158 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 11:07:14 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,729
This @Maka, is he the person who asked for cabin crew strike if they are not paid 200$ per hour overtime? coz anakaa na machungu ingine mbaya sana. VITRIOL.
maka wrote:
Liv wrote:
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Who are the real businessmen here? Which new business picks up and becomes profitable in days or even months?

38% load is a starting point.... shouldn't we be more concerned about the trend from that point on rather than its size now since the route has just began?

Aren't some people here just like the proverbial chicken shouting "the sky is falling" .... Every day at anything? Nothing good happens in kenya?

In my view as a long standing shareholder JFK is a good route and KQ should continue marketing it until it becomes profitable. No business is easy.









Il remind you of your sagely words in the near future.... No one denies that business is tough... You need to have skin in the game etc...
In the end NYC was and will never be a good route... Never... How come I support Mogadishu.... Extra flights to CT.... Libreville... Some areas of Europe.... Simple they make business sense and will turn in a profit fast... NYC doesn't... Setting up Mogadishu hasn't been a walk in the park... But the costs are way manageable... You squeeze the ground handler and tell them you want USD600 for every plane that lands... They will have to give you that... That flight will always have the numbers... lucrative route...Quick turnaround and its back... More money for KQ...

Life is an endless adventure
Liv
#11159 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 12:52:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
hardwood wrote:
maka wrote:
Liv wrote:
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Who are the real businessmen here? Which new business picks up and becomes profitable in days or even months?

38% load is a starting point.... shouldn't we be more concerned about the trend from that point on rather than its size now since the route has just began?

Aren't some people here just like the proverbial chicken shouting "the sky is falling" .... Every day at anything? Nothing good happens in kenya?

In my view as a long standing shareholder JFK is a good route and KQ should continue marketing it until it becomes profitable. No business is easy.









Il remind you of your sagely words in the near future.... No one denies that business is tough... You need to have skin in the game etc...
In the end NYC was and will never be a good route... Never... How come I support Mogadishu.... Extra flights to CT.... Libreville... Some areas of Europe.... Simple they make business sense and will turn in a profit fast... NYC doesn't... Setting up Mogadishu hasn't been a walk in the park... But the costs are way manageable... You squeeze the ground handler and tell them you want USD600 for every plane that lands... They will have to give you that... That flight will always have the numbers... lucrative route...Quick turnaround and its back... More money for KQ...


I think mogadishu is a bad idea. Particularly when we are still fighting alshabab and also doing JFK. Mogadishu should wait for another 3 years as we see how things pan out.


I agree KQ shouldn't be in a hurry to start Mogadishu for security reasons. Alshabab can do anything to down a plane.
maka
#11160 Posted : Thursday, November 01, 2018 1:31:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Liv wrote:
hardwood wrote:
maka wrote:
Liv wrote:
obiero wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
maka wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Zichi wrote:
The numbers are quite low. Hopefully they'll pick up. Tonight KQ2 is departing with less than 100 passengers

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


90...

Whoa! This is way worse than I anticipated. More bailout money down the gutters.

38% load factor is indeed low.. Remember though that traction is developed and isn’t instant. Also remember cargo is in the belly


Who are the real businessmen here? Which new business picks up and becomes profitable in days or even months?

38% load is a starting point.... shouldn't we be more concerned about the trend from that point on rather than its size now since the route has just began?

Aren't some people here just like the proverbial chicken shouting "the sky is falling" .... Every day at anything? Nothing good happens in kenya?

In my view as a long standing shareholder JFK is a good route and KQ should continue marketing it until it becomes profitable. No business is easy.









Il remind you of your sagely words in the near future.... No one denies that business is tough... You need to have skin in the game etc...
In the end NYC was and will never be a good route... Never... How come I support Mogadishu.... Extra flights to CT.... Libreville... Some areas of Europe.... Simple they make business sense and will turn in a profit fast... NYC doesn't... Setting up Mogadishu hasn't been a walk in the park... But the costs are way manageable... You squeeze the ground handler and tell them you want USD600 for every plane that lands... They will have to give you that... That flight will always have the numbers... lucrative route...Quick turnaround and its back... More money for KQ...


I think mogadishu is a bad idea. Particularly when we are still fighting alshabab and also doing JFK. Mogadishu should wait for another 3 years as we see how things pan out.


I agree KQ shouldn't be in a hurry to start Mogadishu for security reasons. Alshabab can do anything to down a plane.


That has been sorted....
possunt quia posse videntur
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