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Detention without Trial!
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Please feast your eyes on this... This DAFT constitution just commands that you get informed of the reason of your detention [whether engineered or bogus as long as the alleged offence is not punishable by a fine only or not by imprisonment for not more than six months] on the first day of court, nothing more. Rights of arrested persons Quote:
49. (1) An arrested person has the right—
(a) to be informed promptly, in language that the person understands,
of—
(i) the reason for the arrest;
(ii) the right to remain silent; and
(iii) the consequences of not remaining silent;
(b) to remain silent;
(c) to communicate with an advocate, and other persons whose assistance
is necessary;
(d) not to be compelled to make any confession or admission that could
be used in evidence against the person;
(e) to be held separately from persons who are serving a sentence;
(f) to be brought before a court as soon as reasonably possible, but not
later than––
(i) twenty-four hours after being arrested; or
(ii) if the twenty-four hours ends outside ordinary court hours,
or on a day that is not an ordinary court day, the end of
the next court day;
(g) at the first court appearance, to be charged or informed of the reason for the detention continuing, or to be released; and
(h) to be released on bond or bail, on reasonable conditions, pending a
charge or trial, unless there are compelling reasons not to be released.
(2) A person shall not be remanded in custody for an offence if the offence is
punishable by a fine only or by imprisonment for not more than six months.
there is no period specified to which you can be held as a guest of the state. As long as it conforms to the above - your constitutional rights of an arrested person have been met. Woe unto you if you are accused of murder. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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p.s According to you have an obligation to respect, uphold and defend this draft whether you vote for it or not. Quote:
Defence of this Constitution
3. (1) Every person has an obligation to respect, uphold and defend this
Constitution.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/6/2010 Posts: 741 Location: Nairobi
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People accused of murder, robbery with violence or any other capital offense are usually not released on bail(though i stand to be corrected. I don't know if this also applies to rapists and defilement cases but i am hoping it does.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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the burden of proof has to be on the Accuser not the accused, Ideally - you should not be detained ad infinitum if your accusers cannot prove you are guilty. this may be used politically to lock in people, remember Koigi Wa Wamwere? he was accused of Raiding a police station and stealing guns. The Idea is that we should have a period to which the police can investigate a crime. What if you are taken to court for the first time for treason, and no investigations are carried out - what is your constitutional recourse? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Give me a break!!!......understand the current constitution first!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@McReggae, explain your outbursts. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@McReggae, explain your outbursts. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,883
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masukuma wrote:p.s According to you have an obligation to respect, uphold and defend this draft whether you vote for it or not. Quote:
Defence of this Constitution
3. (1) Every person has an obligation to respect, uphold and defend this
Constitution.
are you for real? a good number of kenyans do not agree with the current constitution so according to you they should disrespect it, not uphold it and never defend it? people break the laws for a reason. mostly because they don't respect or don't care about upholding them. and they are rightfully punished. so according to the masukuma doctrine if they never vote(d) for/or agree(d) with such laws then they should be excused somehow?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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remember section 2. A of the repealed constitution? people agitated for it to be removed. Morally - if you had a obligation to respect, uphold and defend a bad thing. What is the place of civil disobedience? Seeing that the popular initiative maybe thwarted a County government level without recourse? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,883
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masukuma wrote:remember section 2. A of the repealed constitution? people agitated for it to be removed.
Morally - if you had a obligation to respect, uphold and defend a bad thing. What is the place of civil disobedience? Seeing that the popular initiative maybe thwarted a County government level without recourse? if you care to disregard your selective reading of the proposed constitution then you shall come across the provisions for the amendment of the proposed constitution in the event it is passed. given that you never got to answer my question, i hope you are beginning to see the folly of your weird 'doctrine'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@Mkenya, I am on the level on Amendment if the constitution. Check out, Popular Initiative can fail to go past county governments without recourse. At Parliamentary level - we can have a referendum if parliament disagrees but at county level - You will have raised you 1 million signatures for NOTHING! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,883
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masukuma wrote:Please feast your eyes on this... This DAFT constitution just commands that you get informed of the reason of your detention [whether engineered or bogus as long as the alleged offence is not punishable by a fine only or not by imprisonment for not more than six months] on the first day of court, nothing more. Rights of arrested persons Quote:
49. (1) An arrested person has the right—
(a) to be informed promptly, in language that the person understands,
of—
(i) the reason for the arrest;
(ii) the right to remain silent; and
(iii) the consequences of not remaining silent;
(b) to remain silent;
(c) to communicate with an advocate, and other persons whose assistance
is necessary;
(d) not to be compelled to make any confession or admission that could
be used in evidence against the person;
(e) to be held separately from persons who are serving a sentence;
(f) to be brought before a court as soon as reasonably possible, but not
later than––
(i) twenty-four hours after being arrested; or
(ii) if the twenty-four hours ends outside ordinary court hours,
or on a day that is not an ordinary court day, the end of
the next court day;
(g) at the first court appearance, to be charged or informed of the reason for the detention continuing, or to be released; and
(h) to be released on bond or bail, on reasonable conditions, pending a
charge or trial, unless there are compelling reasons not to be released.
(2) A person shall not be remanded in custody for an offence if the offence is
punishable by a fine only or by imprisonment for not more than six months.
there is no period specified to which you can be held as a guest of the state. As long as it conforms to the above - your constitutional rights of an arrested person have been met. Woe unto you if you are accused of murder. you know, it is not all just about reading the proposed constitution. it is about understanding it too. and when you don't you first get someone who understand it to explain it to you. only then can you start spewing 'fachts'. evidently you are yet to do that in respect of this post.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@mkenya, This was actually brought out by a Lawyer Mr Harrison Kinyanjui on K24 last night and the likes of Pheroze Nowrojee we silent to this. He also raised issues with article 58(2-7) that can create a Guantanamo bay kind of scenario All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/11/2007 Posts: 1,680 Location: nairobi
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mathukuma..can we have a drink after the referendum hoping that the results will be announced immediately....all bills will be on me..don`t add a clause
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@mlefu, Actually I am a tea totter. But we can hook-up. Subject to Availability. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Article 26(3) All State organs and all public officers have the duty to address the needs of vulnerable groups within society, including women, older members of society, persons with disabilities, children, youth, members of minority or marginalised communities, and members of particular ethnic, religious or cultural communities. the only missing guy is THE NORMAL MAN!...You Man can take a long walk of a short plank. This is in the Bill of Rights.All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Masukuma, it aint an outburst!!! Just wanted you to point out these issues in the draft and compare with what we have in the current constitution on the same chapters. Dont quote the draft implying that these provisions have never been there and are only being introduced now!!!! In any case this aint even one of the arcticles the so called "NO" group want expressly ammended!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@McReggae, the numbers of issues are increasing by the day as EYES get openned. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Umecampaign Wazua saaaaaaaaaana, so when is your rally??? ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,903
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@masukuma, new constitution only allows for detention without trial in a state of emergency (art 58). This in stark contrast to current constitution which allows derogation of rights and freedoms from time to time.
Freedom and security of the person
29. Every person has the right to freedom and security of the person, which includes the right not to be—
(a) deprived of freedom arbitrarily or without just cause;
(b) detained without trial, except during a state of emergency, in which case the detention is subject to Article 58;
(c) subjected to any form of violence from either public or private sources;
(d) subjected to torture in any manner, whether physical or psychological;
(e) subjected to corporal punishment; or
(f) treated or punished in a cruel, inhuman or degrading manner.
Article 49 lists rights of arrested persons
Article 51 further lists rights of persons detained, held in custody or imprisoned including right to petition for an
order of habeas corpus (long been celebrated as the most efficient safeguard of individual liberty)
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