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NBK- a junk stock?
guru267
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:12:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@all i've been running through the papers and i stumbled upon what seems like impending doom for minority NBK shareholders...

http://www.theeastafrica...0/-/7hq33e/-/index.html


what i dont understand is the share price movement seems to be reacting in the opposite direction completely... what could be the reason???

Any help on this will be highly appreciated...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
slykat
#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:24:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 359
I cannot pretend to know but I guess it is mere mass speculation based on the prospects of a boardroom takeover. I would urge caution, as 1. the GoK is involved - we know what that means, and, 2. prospective bidders will likely have a discount on mkt price quite unlike what happens in a hostile takeover!
Wa_ithaka
#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 06, 2010 4:14:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
My view of the story is that there is a fair amount of testing the waters because if true, investors are just behind the news curve and once they hear this, they will bolt en masse.
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
Gordon Gekko
#4 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 8:22:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
@guru267 (is your birthday Feb 1967?) that is not fair. By going ex bonus hasn't made NBK junk. Assuming you had 5 shares the cb value would be 53 x 5 = 265. Since you get 2 extra shares, the value of your investment doesn't change, but the value of each share (5 + 2 bonus) becomes 265 / 7 = 37. So the drop to 38 is consistent. I just pity the guys who bought at 49 eb.
However the machination to convert preferential to ordinary will make it junk.
guru267
#5 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 8:38:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@GG that is why i deleted my post... i initially put it up thinking the preference share conversion had began but when i checked out the corporate dates i realised it had just gone ex bonus...

whoever bought at 49 today has seriously lost it up stairs..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Wa_ithaka
#6 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 8:40:41 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
Trading ex bonus today
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
subaru
#7 Posted : Monday, April 12, 2010 4:39:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/15/2010
Posts: 391
Location: nairobie
can see even a trade at 30 bob lucky fella who bought at that price
Jaguar
#8 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 9:59:26 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/7/2007
Posts: 263
Location: humu humu
this "junk" is making many people smile. Bought at 51.00, sold at 59.50. Then bought ex bonus @36.00....still going up up up
guru267
#9 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 10:23:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@jaguar there are a few things that have completely baffled me in life and this stock is one of them...

with the NSSF expecting the price to fall to 2bob after the restructuring in december.. i dont know what its doing way up here
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Jaguar
#10 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 10:38:54 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/7/2007
Posts: 263
Location: humu humu
@guru, the restructuring is not a done deal, nssf concerns will have to be seriously addressed by g.o.k since screwing the kenyan pensioners is the last thing this govt will want to do..having said that, i bought at 36.00 expecting it to stagnate at that level for some time or head south, had actually left some cash to chase it southwards..i'm also puzzled by its meteoric rise
Kaffir
#11 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 7:47:03 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/8/2008
Posts: 77
This stock is going to kill people. Volumes are higher than average, at a price higher than the fundamentals can support. Maybe some chaps have insider information that we dont have. For some of us, our risk appetite isnt that high!
subaru
#12 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:37:10 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/15/2010
Posts: 391
Location: nairobie
i agree with u @ kaffir about the risk appetite but may be something is cookin
guru267
#13 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 8:43:56 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the price rise might be as a result of the market anticipating NSSF having its way in the conversion...

http://www.theeastafrica...2/-/wau96xz/-/index.html
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
ProverB
#14 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 8:49:13 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
[quote=guru267]the price rise might be as a result of the market anticipating NSSF having its way in the conversion...

http://www.theeastafrica.../-/wau96xz/-/index.html[/quote]

for someone strictly long term...guru..you weigh too much on shortterm variables. How does nssf or shareholding structure affect bottomline? or share value?..
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
MaichBlack
#15 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 9:03:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,451
Kaffir wrote:
This stock is going to kill people. Volumes are higher than average, at a price higher than the fundamentals can support.


@Kaffir - I can't agree with you more. Traders might make money from this stock but any investor buying into it at the current prices either has inside information or is a serious gambler!!

The current price has factored in the best case scenario of the shares conversion/privatization tussle. And things could go terribly wrong! This is a classical case of high risk - low return. Even a sane gambler wouldn't like to find himself in such a situation.

No matter how things turn out, this is one stock I would rather observe from outside! There are better options out there.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#16 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 9:28:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,451
Let me try some mathematics to put things in perspective.

Price before announcement/bonus shares: 40/=

Multiply that by 5 (no. [ratio] of share b4 split)
5 * 40 = 200/=

Current price (after bonus): 44/=

Multiply that by 7 (no. [ratio] of share after split)
7 * 44 = 308/=

Difference: 308 - 200 = 108

Now divide that by the original 5 shares:
108 / 5 = 21.6/=

Anyone buying the shares today at 44/= is actually paying a whooping kshs. 21.60/= more (50% more) on the 'original' shares.

Does NBKs performance justify this? Not really. Just compare their EPS (sub 6/=?) to the value above. Does forescast on future performance justify it? Nope! Unless there is some inside info I'm not privy to, I don't see this going very well for guys getting in now.

But then again, I could be wrong. Anyway, when I'm in doubt, I keep off. Better loose a 50% chance of making money (not much the way I see it) than get into a deal where you have a (very realistic) 50% chance of loosing it!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
guru267
#17 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 9:48:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
ProverB wrote:
for someone strictly long term...guru..you weigh too much on shortterm variables. How does nssf or shareholding structure affect bottomline? or share value?..


@proverB these are not short term variables... share restructuring is somthething that affects long term value of the company's shares....

i was trying to look for a reason for the NBK price rise because after PWC's recommendation for the restructuring the price should've been falling since the proposed formula is going to destroy ordinary shareholder value...

but since NSSF plans to and is fighting the formula that was recommended then investors must be factoring in their success in the share price... but its a huge gamble...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
ProverB
#18 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 10:13:30 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
@guru... Thanx.
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
FundamentAli
#19 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 10:27:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
Some small history here.

NBK made massive losses at some point due to non-performing loans. Majority shareholder is NSSF. GoK saved it from insolvency by pumping in money. Incidentally the majority of the non-performing loans were guaranteed by GoK. This also led to the push by World Bank to have these banks privatised to stop these kind of occurences. Question now is, does GoK have right to convert its loan to shares while it was responsible for the mess in the first place? Would it not end up with GoK increasing its stake which reverse its previous efforts to reduce its shareholding? Talk of having your cake and eating it.

I support the NBK board for deciding that GoK should not get any dividends. Check today's paper.
ProverB
#20 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 10:52:20 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
..makes you wonder with all other options in banking...why buy into NBK? its like bracing for an opportunity to curse the Government!!
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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