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Devolution Revenue Sharing Formula
masukuma
#41 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:26:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
alma1 wrote:
masukuma wrote:
This bill is a typical case of "divide and conquer"! attempting to remind senators that they should vote for it because they will 'gain' at the expense of others while trumping on the spirit of the constitution that created the senate in the first place. Appealing to narrow primal interests to get numbers is an old tactic. This was the mindset of akina Moi and Kibaki... giving tokens to ethnic groups to rope them in. Remember akina Ojode turning down ministerial posts when akina Kibaki attempted to rope them in. I am very proud of Kakamega, Kisii, Nairobi and Kajiado and any other county that voted against this bill. They were shocked when they saw people vote against what appeared to be in their interest.

We should be striving at ending up in the 3rd picture not going back to the first! We have been there for a while and we all know it doesn't work


One day you will understand why Moses Kuria is soooo popular with some people.

I don't believe there's a more entitled tribe in Kenya.


I understand that... the problem is that these people don't see that IT DOESN'T HELP!! these places have been chopping the most since 1965 and we are still a f***ing 3rd world country. Let's open up the country and everyone else and see if we can unlock the potential in those places. We are very very short sighted!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
sqft
#42 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:53:49 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different. A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move. On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer. Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense. Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs. You cant copy paste "development".
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
aemathenge
#43 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:58:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different.

A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move.

On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer.

Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense.

Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs.

You cant copy paste "development".


Hear, hear.

Therein lies the foundation of Devolution.
alma1
#44 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 12:06:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different. A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move. On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer. Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense. Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs. You cant copy paste "development".


You see what I mean @masukuma

This fella with all his typing skills has decided that the people of Wajir only want their camels.

Who told you the people of Wajir don't want or need piped water? What is sooooo special about "your people" that God has advised you about?

The only way this country grows is if we ALL grow.

Other than tuborotis what is this in Central that is sooooo special that the people of Turkana should never get?

I call it a problem of being stuck on never visiting other regions in the world other than your gishagi in central and nairobi.

Sad.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

masukuma
#45 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 12:32:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different.

A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move.

On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer.

Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense.

Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs.

You cant copy paste "development".


Hear, hear.

Therein lies the foundation of Devolution.

Indeed! The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different... but people at the center DON'T GET TO TELL THE NOMADIC CAMEL HERDERS WHAT THEY NEED OR DESIRE! therein lies the spirit of devolution...
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
sqft
#46 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:28:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different.

A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move.

On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer.

Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense.

Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs.

You cant copy paste "development".


Hear, hear.

Therein lies the foundation of Devolution.

Indeed! The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different... but people at the center DON'T GET TO TELL THE NOMADIC CAMEL HERDERS WHAT THEY NEED OR DESIRE! therein lies the spirit of devolution...


But you are the same people at the CENTRE giving the nomadic guy more money because you have concluded that he is "undeveloped" eti because he has no cabro or sewer in the grazing fields and therefore you give more money to him so that he can "catch up" with the embakasi guy because to you at the CENTRE development means cabro and sewer..
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
sqft
#47 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:11:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
alma1 wrote:
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different. A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move. On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer. Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense. Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs. You cant copy paste "development".


You see what I mean @masukuma

This fella with all his typing skills has decided that the people of Wajir only want their camels.

Who told you the people of Wajir don't want or need piped water? What is sooooo special about "your people" that God has advised you about?

The only way this country grows is if we ALL grow.

Other than tuborotis what is this in Central that is sooooo special that the people of Turkana should never get?

I call it a problem of being stuck on never visiting other regions in the world other than your gishagi in central and nairobi.

Sad.


Even in the US, the needs of the people of New York city are different from the needs of the ranchers in wyoming. Therefore trump does not pour extra cash huko wyoming eti so that wyomingians can also have subway trains like new yorkers. Rather wyomingians are given their share of cash just like everyone else wajisort kivyao.
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
sparkly
#48 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:31:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
sqft wrote:
alma1 wrote:
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different. A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move. On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer. Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense. Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs. You cant copy paste "development".


You see what I mean @masukuma

This fella with all his typing skills has decided that the people of Wajir only want their camels.

Who told you the people of Wajir don't want or need piped water? What is sooooo special about "your people" that God has advised you about?

The only way this country grows is if we ALL grow.

Other than tuborotis what is this in Central that is sooooo special that the people of Turkana should never get?

I call it a problem of being stuck on never visiting other regions in the world other than your gishagi in central and nairobi.

Sad.


Even in the US, the needs of the people of New York city are different from the needs of the ranchers in wyoming. Therefore trump does not pour extra cash huko wyoming eti so that wyomingians can also have subway trains like new yorkers.


You are the same people gushing over roads, schools, hospitals, bars and coffeehouses in DC. The people of Wajir deserve the same.
Life is short. Live passionately.
AlphDoti
#49 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:12:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
sparkly wrote:
sqft wrote:
alma1 wrote:
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different. A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move. On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer. Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense. Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs. You cant copy paste "development".


You see what I mean @masukuma

This fella with all his typing skills has decided that the people of Wajir only want their camels.

Who told you the people of Wajir don't want or need piped water? What is sooooo special about "your people" that God has advised you about?

The only way this country grows is if we ALL grow.

Other than tuborotis what is this in Central that is sooooo special that the people of Turkana should never get?

I call it a problem of being stuck on never visiting other regions in the world other than your gishagi in central and nairobi.

Sad.

Even in the US, the needs of the people of New York city are different from the needs of the ranchers in wyoming. Therefore trump does not pour extra cash huko wyoming eti so that wyomingians can also have subway trains like new yorkers.

You are the same people gushing over roads, schools, hospitals, bars and coffeehouses in DC. The people of Wajir deserve the same.

Kiambu hospitals, roads, and schools were all built by the 1st president of Kenya. While other regions, including Wajir, left out... lucky to have one hospital, a school, a kilometre road, no water, no reliable electricity... Why do some people think those other regions do not need schools, hospitals, boreholes, power etc?
masukuma
#50 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:23:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
sqft wrote:
masukuma wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
sqft wrote:
The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different.

A nomadic camel herder huko wajir may need boreholes and veterinary services but may not want tarmac roads or sewer lines because he is always on the move.

On the other hand a factory worker hapo embakasi pipeline needs piped water and sewer.

Therefore giving the wajir guy extra funds for sewer and cabro to be like the "developed" embakasi guy doesnt make sense.

Let every man be given his shilling to address his needs.

You cant copy paste "development".


Hear, hear.

Therein lies the foundation of Devolution.

Indeed! The needs of kenyans in different parts of kenya are different... but people at the center DON'T GET TO TELL THE NOMADIC CAMEL HERDERS WHAT THEY NEED OR DESIRE! therein lies the spirit of devolution...


But you are the same people at the CENTRE giving the nomadic guy more money because you have concluded that he is "undeveloped" eti because he has no cabro or sewer in the grazing fields and therefore you give more money to him so that he can "catch up" with the embakasi guy because to you at the CENTRE development means cabro and sewer..

No... wanapewa pesa wajipange sio. Ni watu wazima... what don’t you get? Hiyo formula yenu tumejaribu miaka karibu 40... imetufikisha wapi? Mumechoka na miaka 5... tulieni this is the KATIBA YES that you asked for.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
murchr
#51 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:33:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
I actually feel onemanonevoteoneshilling should be the formula used to fund devolution then.....govt should also create another fund for marginalized areas and make an intentional move to fund projects that are core to development.

So Nairobi should get the 29-30B instead of the 15B on the proposal, Kirinyaga 4B and not 5B on the proposal etc some of these counties return the money anyway yet some counties run out all the time.

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#52 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 5:16:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi

Watu waache ushenzi!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Gathige
#53 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 6:46:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
masukuma wrote:

Watu waache ushenzi!!



The guy has "cracked all the whips" and there may be nothing remaining to whip, unless he starts whipping Baba's cows.


"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
kmucheke
#54 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 7:08:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/16/2019
Posts: 313
This is the controversial revenue sharing formula that is causing all the hullabaloo.

CAi= 0.45PNi + 0.26ES +0.18PIi + 0.08LAi +0.02FEi + 0.01DFi

Quote:
The CRA is rooting for the following formula of CAi= 0.45PNi + 0.26ES +0.18PIi + 0.08LAi +0.02FEi + 0.01DFi, to allocate revenue to the counties. ‘CA’ refers to the total revenue allocated to the county. ‘PN’ is the population index, ‘ES’ is the equal share, ‘PI’ is the poverty index, ‘LA’ is the landmass index, ‘FE’ is the fiscal effort while ‘DF’ is the development factor.


The full article is here.

As someone pointed out, the problem with 2010 constitution is that it dwells too much on the sharing of the cake while forgetting on how to prepare the cake.
wukan
#55 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 7:28:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,570
kmucheke wrote:
This is the controversial revenue sharing formula that is causing all the hullabaloo.

CAi= 0.45PNi + 0.26ES +0.18PIi + 0.08LAi +0.02FEi + 0.01DFi

Quote:
The CRA is rooting for the following formula of CAi= 0.45PNi + 0.26ES +0.18PIi + 0.08LAi +0.02FEi + 0.01DFi, to allocate revenue to the counties. ‘CA’ refers to the total revenue allocated to the county. ‘PN’ is the population index, ‘ES’ is the equal share, ‘PI’ is the poverty index, ‘LA’ is the landmass index, ‘FE’ is the fiscal effort while ‘DF’ is the development factor.


The full article is here.

As someone pointed out, the problem with 2010 constitution is that it dwells too much on the sharing of the cake while forgetting on how to prepare the cake.


It's a useless debate really if you consider GoK taxes 14% of GDP. Talk of bald men fighting over a comb.




kmucheke
#56 Posted : Wednesday, July 29, 2020 7:34:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/16/2019
Posts: 313
This article is a must read.

One Man, One Shilling Politics: A Return to Inequitable Development, Marginalisation and Exclusion

Quote:
On the matter of revenue sharing, the 2010 Constitution uses the word “basis” as opposed to “formula.” There is in fact no reference to “formula” anywhere in the articles on revenue sharing.

Formulas are problematic for the very reasons that are playing out now. Once enacted, they put the country in a straightjacket that it is forced to live with until the next revision is due.

We were alive to the fact that the history of inequitable “sharing of the national cake” as we call it, is a highly emotive and divisive issue and, indeed, one of the core grievances identified in the Agenda 4 items of the National Accord. We recognised that the country would be on a learning curve for a considerable period and, anticipating that the allocation process had the potential for exacerbating instead of healing ethnic divisions, we felt that we needed a credible authoritative team of “honest brokers” to navigate the country through the transition. The “original sin” of the current standoff is that the CRA adopted the very formula for which it had been envisaged as an alternative. The current dispute centres on whether to put more weight on population or on geography in the formula. This dispute, as far as the spirit and letter of the constitution is concerned, is completely misplaced.

murchr
#57 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2020 6:00:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
kmucheke wrote:
This article is a must read.

One Man, One Shilling Politics: A Return to Inequitable Development, Marginalisation and Exclusion

Quote:
On the matter of revenue sharing, the 2010 Constitution uses the word “basis” as opposed to “formula.” There is in fact no reference to “formula” anywhere in the articles on revenue sharing.

Formulas are problematic for the very reasons that are playing out now. Once enacted, they put the country in a straightjacket that it is forced to live with until the next revision is due.

We were alive to the fact that the history of inequitable “sharing of the national cake” as we call it, is a highly emotive and divisive issue and, indeed, one of the core grievances identified in the Agenda 4 items of the National Accord. We recognised that the country would be on a learning curve for a considerable period and, anticipating that the allocation process had the potential for exacerbating instead of healing ethnic divisions, we felt that we needed a credible authoritative team of “honest brokers” to navigate the country through the transition. The “original sin” of the current standoff is that the CRA adopted the very formula for which it had been envisaged as an alternative. The current dispute centres on whether to put more weight on population or on geography in the formula. This dispute, as far as the spirit and letter of the constitution is concerned, is completely misplaced.





Blogger opinions dont matter....that's just passion writing with no impact apart from making readers mad. What matters is law. That is why Kang'ata tried to trick the senate changing the proposal by the CRA to suit his agenda. They are one of the consultants of the formula per the law, amendments may be done but have to go through the senate and NA. Mambo bado

So what does the supreme law of the land say?

217. Division of revenue wrote:


(1) Once every five years, the Senate shall, by resolution, determine the basis for allocating among the counties the share of national revenue that is annually allocated to the county level of government.
(2) In determining the basis of revenue sharing under clause (1), the Senate shall--

(a) take the criteria in Article 203 (1) into account;
(b) request and consider recommendations from the Commission on Revenue Allocation;
(c) consult the county governors, the Cabinet Secretary responsible for finance and any organisation of county governments; and
(d) invite the public, including professional bodies, to make submissions to it on the matter.

Article 203 wrote:


1) The following criteria shall be taken into account in determining the equitable shares provided for under Article 202 and in all national legislation concerning county government enacted in terms of this Chapter--

(a) the national interest;
(b) any provision that must be made in respect of the public debt and other national obligations;
(c) the needs of the national government, determined by objective criteria;
(d) the need to ensure that county governments are able to perform the functions allocated to them;
(e) the fiscal capacity and efficiency of county governments;
(f) developmental and other needs of counties;

(g) economic disparities within and among counties and the need to remedy them;
(h) the need for affirmative action in respect of disadvantaged areas and groups;





Am sure the CRA has worked out a better formula than what our fisi Senators have, think about it some have ambitions of becoming Govenors so more money to them the better.

The constitution also allows for a Equalization fund
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Lolest!
#58 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2020 6:35:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
The best way to have a sober discussion on this is to divorce central or Mt Kenya counties from it

Substitute Kiambu with Kakamega, Bungoma or Nairobi. You'll now see better, think better, debate better
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
sqft
#59 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2020 8:44:06 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
alma1 wrote:

Other than tuborotis what is this in Central that is sooooo special that the people of Turkana should never get?

I call it a problem of being stuck on never visiting other regions in the world other than your gishagi in central and nairobi.

Sad.


Why are you making this a central region issue while the main gainers are kaleos and luhyas? Where is your nyeri county on that list of top gainers? Where is muranga, nyandarua, meru, embu, tharaka? My county is not on that list but I support that kila mtu apewe haki yake. One man one vote one shilling.

Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
sqft
#60 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2020 8:57:25 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
I watched kiraitu last night on TV and he was asking if it justice for someone in laare meru to get 5k in devolved funds while his neighbour across the road (10 meters away) but administratively in isiolo county gets 15k ie 3 times more because his county is considered huge. Never mind that those 2 neighbours live in the same locality, environment and face similar challenges.
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
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