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Value Investing doesn't work anymore
Angelica _ann
#81 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 11:15:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,901
sqft wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
While I don't deny that one can make a decent income investing in the NSE, I think it takes special talent to do so. I am a good example of this. When I joined Wazua (or SK as it was called then) I had big ideas about creating a balanced portfolio that would earn me 300K per month, which is what I estimated would guarantee me a comfortable retirement one day.

I was an attentive observer of many of the investors here. However it took me a very short time to realise that investing required at least two sets of talent, which I did not have: attention to pattern, for momentum investing and attention to detail, for value investing. And patience.

After making many mistakes and losing quite a bit on the NSE, I had to admit I was simply not good at this game and I should try something that I could at least partially understand. I moved my attention to real estate investing. Despite its problems, and there are many, real estate is something straight forward and I have made some progress, to the point where I am gradually approaching that 300K monthly income that I initially envisioned. It has taken me 10 years and a base of about 30M in (mostly borrowed) capital invested (so that 10% yield is not too far off).

Could I have made better returns investing that 30M in the stock market? Maybe, but for me, it would have taken luck or market manipulation and I am not sure either is a good strategy. In any case I didn't have that 30M to start with and if there is one lesson I have learned from Wazua it is this: don't invest in the stock market using borrowed funds.

As for the NSE, I now use it like a bank account. I buy shares expecting to sell them when I need the money (whether they are up or down) but hoping to get a better return than from a fixed deposit.


I think you can't go wrong with real estate. I remember @matatamingi saying he's now retired at the coast but the house he bought in Lavington many years ago is giving him >300k per month in rental income. That is some nice pension as you soak in the sun and enjoy the breezesmile .


Very true on 'developed' real estate (nyumba(s) generating income but not wilderness plots advanced in some forums _ some without titles//plus poor amenities and infrastructure.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Spikes
#82 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 12:57:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Angelica _ann wrote:
sqft wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
While I don't deny that one can make a decent income investing in the NSE, I think it takes special talent to do so. I am a good example of this. When I joined Wazua (or SK as it was called then) I had big ideas about creating a balanced portfolio that would earn me 300K per month, which is what I estimated would guarantee me a comfortable retirement one day.

I was an attentive observer of many of the investors here. However it took me a very short time to realise that investing required at least two sets of talent, which I did not have: attention to pattern, for momentum investing and attention to detail, for value investing. And patience.

After making many mistakes and losing quite a bit on the NSE, I had to admit I was simply not good at this game and I should try something that I could at least partially understand. I moved my attention to real estate investing. Despite its problems, and there are many, real estate is something straight forward and I have made some progress, to the point where I am gradually approaching that 300K monthly income that I initially envisioned. It has taken me 10 years and a base of about 30M in (mostly borrowed) capital invested (so that 10% yield is not too far off).

Could I have made better returns investing that 30M in the stock market? Maybe, but for me, it would have taken luck or market manipulation and I am not sure either is a good strategy. In any case I didn't have that 30M to start with and if there is one lesson I have learned from Wazua it is this: don't invest in the stock market using borrowed funds.

As for the NSE, I now use it like a bank account. I buy shares expecting to sell them when I need the money (whether they are up or down) but hoping to get a better return than from a fixed deposit.


I think you can't go wrong with real estate. I remember @matatamingi saying he's now retired at the coast but the house he bought in Lavington many years ago is giving him >300k per month in rental income. That is some nice pension as you soak in the sun and enjoy the breezesmile .


Very true on 'developed' real estate (nyumba(s) generating income but not wilderness plots advanced in some forums _ some without titles//plus poor amenities and infrastructure.


You people you are lost. Devolution is real and it has changed the perceptions people held about remote lands. In my rural home it costs you between 200-300k KES to lease 1 acre of land for 10-15 years. You plant eucalyptus trees you harvest and mint millions. That is it! Every land has value depending what you develop it for. Devolution is a new normal.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
amorphous
#83 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 3:57:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
obiero wrote:
sqft wrote:
obiero wrote:
Monk wrote:
sqft wrote:
I think that @amorphous (or whoever he may morph into) has raised a very important point which all investors must not ignore. And that is - can one live off investments at the NSE? To maintain a middle-class lifestyle in Nairobi you need some 300k each month. So it means that if you are lucky to get a 10% dividend (before tax) to maintain the lifestyle, you need to have an investment of KES 36m at the NSE. I don't want to bring in the issue of capital gains or capital losses. So how many wazuans have invested 36m at the NSE?

The only wazuan to have declared his portfolio at NSE is @obiero. All the other wazuans list some amorphous percentages of their holdings so one can never know the amount of their investment at the NSE.

So let's look at a typical wazuan's portfolio, in this case @obieros last known portfolio: 5500 COOP, 2000 HF, 7500 KCB, 100000 KENR, 392,100 KQ. At today's prices (3rd June 2020) COOP (12.40), HF (3.74), KCB (34.95), KNRE (2.30), KQ (1.99), his portfolio is worth about 1.35m. If a miracle happens and he gets a 10% dividend, that's 135k pa, or 11k a month before tax. So how would he survive on such an amount? Even a mama mboga makes more than that. Is the 11K worth the time and stress involved monitoring the stock market performance every day?



@sqft If I'm not mistaken, Obiero is a self-declared trader and not a dividend hunter on the NSE. His amount of investment here is not representative.

Some Wazuans here like @Stocksmaster have proved repeatedly that combining dividend investing and trading volatile stocks can earn you much more than the 10% you used as a reference.

Some Income investors too earn much higher DYs than 10%, based on their ABPs and duration of holding. Think of those who've held Safaricom from when it was ranging at Ksh 3-5, and accumulated large quantities. Today they make at least 30% annually.

Only 5% of my total investment rests at the NSE at any given time.. Sometimes it dips below 3%.. I would never invest more than the said percentage as stock trading carries possibility of sudden total loss at worst or severe erosion of capital at best, but during good times you can also make a killing. I am a trader through and through for the capital gains. The dividends I drink with @maka


Seems @mugundaman was right that the NSE is a casino.smile

Nothing can be more false..


Straight from your own mouth Laughing out loudly
Age and family mellows us all over time
amorphous
#84 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 3:59:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
sqft wrote:
I think that @amorphous (or whoever he may morph into) has raised a very important point which all investors must not ignore. And that is - can one live off investments at the NSE? To maintain a middle-class lifestyle in Nairobi you need some 300k each month. So it means that if you are lucky to get a 10% dividend (before tax) to maintain the lifestyle, you need to have an investment of KES 36m at the NSE. I don't want to bring in the issue of capital gains or capital losses. So how many wazuans have invested 36m at the NSE?

The only wazuan to have declared his portfolio at NSE is @obiero. All the other wazuans list some amorphous percentages of their holdings so one can never know the amount of their investment at the NSE.

So let's look at a typical wazuan's portfolio, in this case @obieros last known portfolio: 5500 COOP, 2000 HF, 7500 KCB, 100000 KENR, 392,100 KQ. At today's prices (3rd June 2020) COOP (12.40), HF (3.74), KCB (34.95), KNRE (2.30), KQ (1.99), his portfolio is worth about 1.35m. If a miracle happens and he gets a 10% dividend, that's 135k pa, or 11k a month before tax. So how would he survive on such an amount? Even a mama mboga makes more than that. Is the 11K worth the time and stress involved monitoring the stock market performance every day?



Even that 11k they do not make. Notice how VVS tells long stories about nothing. Nothing he says adds up.
Age and family mellows us all over time
amorphous
#85 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 4:01:44 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
Wakanyugi wrote:
While I don't deny that one can make a decent income investing in the NSE, I think it takes special talent to do so. I am a good example of this. When I joined Wazua (or SK as it was called then) I had big ideas about creating a balanced portfolio that would earn me 300K per month, which is what I estimated would guarantee me a comfortable retirement one day.

I was an attentive observer of many of the investors here. However it took me a very short time to realise that investing required at least two sets of talent, which I did not have: attention to pattern, for momentum investing and attention to detail, for value investing. And patience.

After making many mistakes and losing quite a bit on the NSE, I had to admit I was simply not good at this game and I should try something that I could at least partially understand. I moved my attention to real estate investing. Despite its problems, and there are many, real estate is something straight forward and I have made some progress, to the point where I am gradually approaching that 300K monthly income that I initially envisioned. It has taken me 10 years and a base of about 30M in (mostly borrowed) capital invested (so that 10% yield is not too far off).

Could I have made better returns investing that 30M in the stock market? Maybe, but for me, it would have taken luck or market manipulation and I am not sure either is a good strategy. In any case I didn't have that 30M to start with and if there is one lesson I have learned from Wazua it is this: don't invest in the stock market using borrowed funds.

As for the NSE, I now use it like a bank account. I buy shares expecting to sell them when I need the money (whether they are up or down) but hoping to get a better return than from a fixed deposit.


This is as plain as tasty mandazi to anyone with even an 1/8th of a brain but they will still argue with ujuaji mingi against it. Let them be!smile
Age and family mellows us all over time
amorphous
#86 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 4:06:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
Spikes wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
sqft wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
While I don't deny that one can make a decent income investing in the NSE, I think it takes special talent to do so. I am a good example of this. When I joined Wazua (or SK as it was called then) I had big ideas about creating a balanced portfolio that would earn me 300K per month, which is what I estimated would guarantee me a comfortable retirement one day.

I was an attentive observer of many of the investors here. However it took me a very short time to realise that investing required at least two sets of talent, which I did not have: attention to pattern, for momentum investing and attention to detail, for value investing. And patience.

After making many mistakes and losing quite a bit on the NSE, I had to admit I was simply not good at this game and I should try something that I could at least partially understand. I moved my attention to real estate investing. Despite its problems, and there are many, real estate is something straight forward and I have made some progress, to the point where I am gradually approaching that 300K monthly income that I initially envisioned. It has taken me 10 years and a base of about 30M in (mostly borrowed) capital invested (so that 10% yield is not too far off).

Could I have made better returns investing that 30M in the stock market? Maybe, but for me, it would have taken luck or market manipulation and I am not sure either is a good strategy. In any case I didn't have that 30M to start with and if there is one lesson I have learned from Wazua it is this: don't invest in the stock market using borrowed funds.

As for the NSE, I now use it like a bank account. I buy shares expecting to sell them when I need the money (whether they are up or down) but hoping to get a better return than from a fixed deposit.


I think you can't go wrong with real estate. I remember @matatamingi saying he's now retired at the coast but the house he bought in Lavington many years ago is giving him >300k per month in rental income. That is some nice pension as you soak in the sun and enjoy the breezesmile .


Very true on 'developed' real estate (nyumba(s) generating income but not wilderness plots advanced in some forums _ some without titles//plus poor amenities and infrastructure.


You people you are lost. Devolution is real and it has changed the perceptions people held about remote lands. In my rural home it costs you between 200-300k KES to lease 1 acre of land for 10-15 years. You plant eucalyptus trees you harvest and mint millions. That is it! Every land has value depending what you develop it for. Devolution is a new normal.


AA has been investing in the casino since Moi error yet is still a broke employee whose hero is VVS. That should tell you something. A plot hata huko LODWAR is 100 times as safe and doubly so as lucrative as their crumbling penny stocks but ujuaji keeps them swallowing losses (that they even openly admit to with long inshas papa hapa) yearlyLaughing out loudly. KILA MTU NA SUMU YAGHE!
Age and family mellows us all over time
amorphous
#87 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 4:18:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
S.Mutaga III wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
S.Mutaga III wrote:
There are several threads on this forum by people like Stocksmaster proving that value investing works. Most of us guys just don't know how to find value. That's the problem.

However, I think value investing is a lot harder in first world developed markets because there are too many hedge funds and professionals with billions of cash looking for value. That makes it a lot harder to find.



@S.Mutaga III. What are you buying/have you bought this year 2020? What was your entry price and when/what price are you exiting? Thanks in advance

I'm out of stocks this year. I wouldn't risk investing before seeing how covid-19 affects the income statements of companies. We are living in "interesting" times. KCB may appear as a bargain at 35 only to issue a profit warning later in the year. What appears as a bargain right now may not be a bargain if you factor in covid-19. So, I am out of stocks for now.



UNBELIEVABLE! S. Mutaga III PHD, CMA, Esquire, OGH Praaaa, the liquid metal, Odumeje, Indaboski, the Lion, Indaboski Bahose, the fight, Lebadu, radical prophet, fireman, the CHIEF DEFENDER and eminence grise of stock investing on Wazoo, has finally joined us on the BENCH having left the casino?Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Wonders never cease Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly. Very smart man you are!
Age and family mellows us all over time
Angelica _ann
#88 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 5:13:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,901
amorphous wrote:
Spikes wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
sqft wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
While I don't deny that one can make a decent income investing in the NSE, I think it takes special talent to do so. I am a good example of this. When I joined Wazua (or SK as it was called then) I had big ideas about creating a balanced portfolio that would earn me 300K per month, which is what I estimated would guarantee me a comfortable retirement one day.

I was an attentive observer of many of the investors here. However it took me a very short time to realise that investing required at least two sets of talent, which I did not have: attention to pattern, for momentum investing and attention to detail, for value investing. And patience.

After making many mistakes and losing quite a bit on the NSE, I had to admit I was simply not good at this game and I should try something that I could at least partially understand. I moved my attention to real estate investing. Despite its problems, and there are many, real estate is something straight forward and I have made some progress, to the point where I am gradually approaching that 300K monthly income that I initially envisioned. It has taken me 10 years and a base of about 30M in (mostly borrowed) capital invested (so that 10% yield is not too far off).

Could I have made better returns investing that 30M in the stock market? Maybe, but for me, it would have taken luck or market manipulation and I am not sure either is a good strategy. In any case I didn't have that 30M to start with and if there is one lesson I have learned from Wazua it is this: don't invest in the stock market using borrowed funds.

As for the NSE, I now use it like a bank account. I buy shares expecting to sell them when I need the money (whether they are up or down) but hoping to get a better return than from a fixed deposit.


I think you can't go wrong with real estate. I remember @matatamingi saying he's now retired at the coast but the house he bought in Lavington many years ago is giving him >300k per month in rental income. That is some nice pension as you soak in the sun and enjoy the breezesmile .


Very true on 'developed' real estate (nyumba(s) generating income but not wilderness plots advanced in some forums _ some without titles//plus poor amenities and infrastructure.


You people you are lost. Devolution is real and it has changed the perceptions people held about remote lands. In my rural home it costs you between 200-300k KES to lease 1 acre of land for 10-15 years. You plant eucalyptus trees you harvest and mint millions. That is it! Every land has value depending what you develop it for. Devolution is a new normal.


AA has been investing in the casino since Moi error yet is still a broke employee whose hero is VVS. That should tell you something. A plot hata huko LODWAR is 100 times as safe and doubly so as lucrative as their crumbling penny stocks but ujuaji keeps them swallowing losses (that they even openly admit to with long inshas papa hapa) yearlyLaughing out loudly. KILA MTU NA SUMU YAGHE!


Heh heh heh I moved on to the rape thread with my broke ass or is it broke p... smile smile smile
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Spikes
#89 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 7:00:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Angelica _ann wrote:
amorphous wrote:
Spikes wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
sqft wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
While I don't deny that one can make a decent income investing in the NSE, I think it takes special talent to do so. I am a good example of this. When I joined Wazua (or SK as it was called then) I had big ideas about creating a balanced portfolio that would earn me 300K per month, which is what I estimated would guarantee me a comfortable retirement one day.

I was an attentive observer of many of the investors here. However it took me a very short time to realise that investing required at least two sets of talent, which I did not have: attention to pattern, for momentum investing and attention to detail, for value investing. And patience.

After making many mistakes and losing quite a bit on the NSE, I had to admit I was simply not good at this game and I should try something that I could at least partially understand. I moved my attention to real estate investing. Despite its problems, and there are many, real estate is something straight forward and I have made some progress, to the point where I am gradually approaching that 300K monthly income that I initially envisioned. It has taken me 10 years and a base of about 30M in (mostly borrowed) capital invested (so that 10% yield is not too far off).

Could I have made better returns investing that 30M in the stock market? Maybe, but for me, it would have taken luck or market manipulation and I am not sure either is a good strategy. In any case I didn't have that 30M to start with and if there is one lesson I have learned from Wazua it is this: don't invest in the stock market using borrowed funds.

As for the NSE, I now use it like a bank account. I buy shares expecting to sell them when I need the money (whether they are up or down) but hoping to get a better return than from a fixed deposit.


I think you can't go wrong with real estate. I remember @matatamingi saying he's now retired at the coast but the house he bought in Lavington many years ago is giving him >300k per month in rental income. That is some nice pension as you soak in the sun and enjoy the breezesmile .


Very true on 'developed' real estate (nyumba(s) generating income but not wilderness plots advanced in some forums _ some without titles//plus poor amenities and infrastructure.


You people you are lost. Devolution is real and it has changed the perceptions people held about remote lands. In my rural home it costs you between 200-300k KES to lease 1 acre of land for 10-15 years. You plant eucalyptus trees you harvest and mint millions. That is it! Every land has value depending what you develop it for. Devolution is a new normal.


AA has been investing in the casino since Moi error yet is still a broke employee whose hero is VVS. That should tell you something. A plot hata huko LODWAR is 100 times as safe and doubly so as lucrative as their crumbling penny stocks but ujuaji keeps them swallowing losses (that they even openly admit to with long inshas papa hapa) yearlyLaughing out loudly. KILA MTU NA SUMU YAGHE!


Heh heh heh I moved on to the rape thread with my broke ass or is it broke p... smile smile smile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
VituVingiSana
#90 Posted : Thursday, June 04, 2020 8:07:00 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,057
Location: Nairobi
amorphous wrote:
sqft wrote:
I think that @amorphous (or whoever he may morph into) has raised a very important point which all investors must not ignore. And that is - can one live off investments at the NSE? To maintain a middle-class lifestyle in Nairobi you need some 300k each month. So it means that if you are lucky to get a 10% dividend (before tax) to maintain the lifestyle, you need to have an investment of KES 36m at the NSE. I don't want to bring in the issue of capital gains or capital losses. So how many wazuans have invested 36m at the NSE?

The only wazuan to have declared his portfolio at NSE is @obiero. All the other wazuans list some amorphous percentages of their holdings so one can never know the amount of their investment at the NSE.

So let's look at a typical wazuan's portfolio, in this case @obieros last known portfolio: 5500 COOP, 2000 HF, 7500 KCB, 100000 KENR, 392,100 KQ. At today's prices (3rd June 2020) COOP (12.40), HF (3.74), KCB (34.95), KNRE (2.30), KQ (1.99), his portfolio is worth about 1.35m. If a miracle happens and he gets a 10% dividend, that's 135k pa, or 11k a month before tax. So how would he survive on such an amount? Even a mama mboga makes more than that. Is the 11K worth the time and stress involved monitoring the stock market performance every day?



Even that 11k they do not make. Notice how VVS tells long stories about nothing. Nothing he says adds up.
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Together with learning to live with my aching joints, I have learnt patience. We have seen many like you huffing and puffing. It's all good. Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mnandii
#91 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 6:48:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
VituVingiSana wrote:
amorphous wrote:
sqft wrote:
I think that @amorphous (or whoever he may morph into) has raised a very important point which all investors must not ignore. And that is - can one live off investments at the NSE? To maintain a middle-class lifestyle in Nairobi you need some 300k each month. So it means that if you are lucky to get a 10% dividend (before tax) to maintain the lifestyle, you need to have an investment of KES 36m at the NSE. I don't want to bring in the issue of capital gains or capital losses. So how many wazuans have invested 36m at the NSE?

The only wazuan to have declared his portfolio at NSE is @obiero. All the other wazuans list some amorphous percentages of their holdings so one can never know the amount of their investment at the NSE.

So let's look at a typical wazuan's portfolio, in this case @obieros last known portfolio: 5500 COOP, 2000 HF, 7500 KCB, 100000 KENR, 392,100 KQ. At today's prices (3rd June 2020) COOP (12.40), HF (3.74), KCB (34.95), KNRE (2.30), KQ (1.99), his portfolio is worth about 1.35m. If a miracle happens and he gets a 10% dividend, that's 135k pa, or 11k a month before tax. So how would he survive on such an amount? Even a mama mboga makes more than that. Is the 11K worth the time and stress involved monitoring the stock market performance every day?



Even that 11k they do not make. Notice how VVS tells long stories about nothing. Nothing he says adds up.
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Together with learning to live with my aching joints, I have learnt patience. We have seen many like you huffing and puffing. It's all good. Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

smile
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mnandii
#92 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 7:04:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
People are realizing that value investing does not work simply because the character of the market changed. Whereas in the past few years the major markets were in a strong bull trend, the turn to a bear market is finding people off-guard. Even the venerable Oracle of Omaha can not many any meaningful sense out of this.

The reason is that the bull market cushioned people with questionable investment strategies. In a major bull market almost any share price is likely to go up. So it is not rocket science to make money by buying just about anything.

In contrast, a bear market is more demanding strategy-wise. The strategies that worked so well in a bull market suddenly become ineffective to ward off losses. The reason is not that these strategies are suddenly not working. The important point is that the strategies were never effective from the onset, only that the raging bull blinded people to the truth. A bear market brings reality and sanity. Only the best of strategies work in both bear markets and bull markets i.e all the time as they should.

And in this bear market, Elliott Waves are even more better suited. Beacause in a bear market, the fear in people creates perfect Elliott Wave patterns that are even more clearly perceived.

This bear market will teach the discerning the very best strategies to forecast a market, any market, any time.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
VituVingiSana
#93 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 7:49:32 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,057
Location: Nairobi
mnandii wrote:
People are realizing that value investing does not work simply because the character of the market changed. Whereas in the past few years the major markets were in a strong bull trend, the turn to a bear market is finding people off-guard. Even the venerable Oracle of Omaha can not many any meaningful sense out of this.

The reason is that the bull market cushioned people with questionable investment strategies. In a major bull market almost any share price is likely to go up. So it is not rocket science to make money by buying just about anything.

In contrast, a bear market is more demanding strategy-wise. The strategies that worked so well in a bull market suddenly become ineffective to ward off losses. The reason is not that these strategies are suddenly not working. The important point is that the strategies were never effective from the onset, only that the raging bull blinded people to the truth. A bear market brings reality and sanity. Only the best of strategies work in both bear markets and bull markets i.e all the time as they should.

And in this bear market, Elliott Waves are even more better suited. Beacause in a bear market, the fear in people creates perfect Elliott Wave patterns that are even more clearly perceived.

This bear market will teach the discerning the very best strategies to forecast a market, any market, any time.

I have been following your other thread. I do not know how to "mark" posts for the future but I have asked we look at some of your picks/forecasts in the future

Perhaps we should start a new thread.

I can tell you my picks (probably my Core & 2nd tier) and you work your magic.
We can compare in 4 years.

As an example, I own Centum, I&M, Kenya Re, Unga. We can use Total Return (Capital Gains + Dividends).
Others if you have time can include Stanbic, DTB, BAT, FTG, LKL.

We use today's prices as our base and then set it out.
We can compare/update every 6 months until 2024.

Start today, or next week.
31 Dec 2020
1 July 2021
31 Dec 2021
1 July 2022
31 Dec 2022
1 July 2023
31 Dec 2023
1 July 2024
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Receptor
#94 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 8:21:04 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/1/2019
Posts: 119
mnandii wrote:
People are realizing that value investing does not work simply because the character of the market changed. Whereas in the past few years the major markets were in a strong bull trend, the turn to a bear market is finding people off-guard. Even the venerable Oracle of Omaha can not many any meaningful sense out of this.

The reason is that the bull market cushioned people with questionable investment strategies. In a major bull market almost any share price is likely to go up. So it is not rocket science to make money by buying just about anything.

In contrast, a bear market is more demanding strategy-wise. The strategies that worked so well in a bull market suddenly become ineffective to ward off losses. The reason is not that these strategies are suddenly not working. The important point is that the strategies were never effective from the onset, only that the raging bull blinded people to the truth. A bear market brings reality and sanity. Only the best of strategies work in both bear markets and bull markets i.e all the time as they should.

And in this bear market, Elliott Waves are even more better suited. Beacause in a bear market, the fear in people creates perfect Elliott Wave patterns that are even more clearly perceived.

This bear market will teach the discerning the very best strategies to forecast a market, any market, any time.



The bear in the NSE casino has been with us for the past 5 years. (it did not start now with Corona). We have just about to bottom out.

Cash is king for the so called "value investor".

The problem with wazuans is that they want to play pata potea at the casino with kshs. 20000 and expect to make a kill or in worst case get burnt a little.

My strategy is go hard or go home. e.g., why should i buy only 10,000 shares of Fahari i-reit at a kshs. 60000 bob yet i can purchase a 100,000 units by wekelea-ing 600 geez on this counter.

A 60 cents(10%) rise is a whooping 60,000 bob. I can make 60 gees every other week/day at the NSE casino by merely betting kshs. 600,000.

e.g.,

I buy 100000 shares of Fahari ireit today in the morning at 6 bob a share.

I sell the same shares leo leo for ksh.6.60. That is a staggering 60 ngwanyes(before tax/commisions).

Next week i wekelea my 650,000 bob and buy the NSE share at 7.20 bob and sell at 8 bob by lunch hour.

I repeat this every other day and i will bid my evil employer goodbye.

amorphous
#95 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 9:01:13 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
People are realizing that value investing does not work simply because the character of the market changed. Whereas in the past few years the major markets were in a strong bull trend, the turn to a bear market is finding people off-guard. Even the venerable Oracle of Omaha can not many any meaningful sense out of this.

The reason is that the bull market cushioned people with questionable investment strategies. In a major bull market almost any share price is likely to go up. So it is not rocket science to make money by buying just about anything.

In contrast, a bear market is more demanding strategy-wise. The strategies that worked so well in a bull market suddenly become ineffective to ward off losses. The reason is not that these strategies are suddenly not working. The important point is that the strategies were never effective from the onset, only that the raging bull blinded people to the truth. A bear market brings reality and sanity. Only the best of strategies work in both bear markets and bull markets i.e all the time as they should.

And in this bear market, Elliott Waves are even more better suited. Beacause in a bear market, the fear in people creates perfect Elliott Wave patterns that are even more clearly perceived.

This bear market will teach the discerning the very best strategies to forecast a market, any market, any time.

I have been following your other thread. I do not know how to "mark" posts for the future but I have asked we look at some of your picks/forecasts in the future

Perhaps we should start a new thread.

I can tell you my picks (probably my Core & 2nd tier) and you work your magic.
We can compare in 4 years.

As an example, I own Centum, I&M, Kenya Re, Unga. We can use Total Return (Capital Gains + Dividends).
Others if you have time can include Stanbic, DTB, BAT, FTG, LKL.

We use today's prices as our base and then set it out.
We can compare/update every 6 months until 2024.

Start today, or next week.
31 Dec 2020
1 July 2021
31 Dec 2021
1 July 2022
31 Dec 2022
1 July 2023
31 Dec 2023
1 July 2024


I think this is an excellent idea from the mighty VVS. This way all his losses can be exposed in their full glory without amorphous needing to post even a comma or a fullstop. I assume these are all his current holdings? Then he can update us on all the trades he makes as we go along and I can keep a comprehensive spreadsheet as well to document each trading move of his. Dividends will also be pretty easy to keep up with. I suggest a brand new separate thread for this noble enterprise!
Age and family mellows us all over time
amorphous
#96 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 9:03:41 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
Receptor wrote:
mnandii wrote:
People are realizing that value investing does not work simply because the character of the market changed. Whereas in the past few years the major markets were in a strong bull trend, the turn to a bear market is finding people off-guard. Even the venerable Oracle of Omaha can not many any meaningful sense out of this.

The reason is that the bull market cushioned people with questionable investment strategies. In a major bull market almost any share price is likely to go up. So it is not rocket science to make money by buying just about anything.

In contrast, a bear market is more demanding strategy-wise. The strategies that worked so well in a bull market suddenly become ineffective to ward off losses. The reason is not that these strategies are suddenly not working. The important point is that the strategies were never effective from the onset, only that the raging bull blinded people to the truth. A bear market brings reality and sanity. Only the best of strategies work in both bear markets and bull markets i.e all the time as they should.

And in this bear market, Elliott Waves are even more better suited. Beacause in a bear market, the fear in people creates perfect Elliott Wave patterns that are even more clearly perceived.

This bear market will teach the discerning the very best strategies to forecast a market, any market, any time.



The bear in the NSE casino has been with us for the past 5 years. (it did not start now with Corona). We have just about to bottom out.

Cash is king for the so called "value investor".

The problem with wazuans is that they want to play pata potea at the casino with kshs. 20000 and expect to make a kill or in worst case get burnt a little.

My strategy is go hard or go home. e.g., why should i buy only 10,000 shares of Fahari i-reit at a kshs. 60000 bob yet i can purchase a 100,000 units by wekelea-ing 600 geez on this counter.

A 60 cents(10%) rise is a whooping 60,000 bob. I can make 60 gees every other week/day at the NSE casino by merely betting kshs. 600,000.

e.g.,

I buy 100000 shares of Fahari ireit today in the morning at 6 bob a share.

I sell the same shares leo leo for ksh.6.60. That is a staggering 60 ngwanyes(before tax/commisions).

Next week i wekelea my 650,000 bob and buy the NSE share at 7.20 bob and sell at 8 bob by lunch hour.

I repeat this every other day and i will bid my evil employer goodbye.



You are a good dreamer Laughing out loudly
If this was the case, Receptor would have traded his way from 600k to billions of shillings within a matter of months by scraping together his daily ngwanyes and compounding them through the above daily loss-free skilful trades into a croesus-like fortune in no time! Why has it not happened? Because it is a bag of smoke of course.
Age and family mellows us all over time
Receptor
#97 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 9:28:12 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/1/2019
Posts: 119
amorphous wrote:
Receptor wrote:
mnandii wrote:
People are realizing that value investing does not work simply because the character of the market changed. Whereas in the past few years the major markets were in a strong bull trend, the turn to a bear market is finding people off-guard. Even the venerable Oracle of Omaha can not many any meaningful sense out of this.

The reason is that the bull market cushioned people with questionable investment strategies. In a major bull market almost any share price is likely to go up. So it is not rocket science to make money by buying just about anything.

In contrast, a bear market is more demanding strategy-wise. The strategies that worked so well in a bull market suddenly become ineffective to ward off losses. The reason is not that these strategies are suddenly not working. The important point is that the strategies were never effective from the onset, only that the raging bull blinded people to the truth. A bear market brings reality and sanity. Only the best of strategies work in both bear markets and bull markets i.e all the time as they should.

And in this bear market, Elliott Waves are even more better suited. Beacause in a bear market, the fear in people creates perfect Elliott Wave patterns that are even more clearly perceived.

This bear market will teach the discerning the very best strategies to forecast a market, any market, any time.



The bear in the NSE casino has been with us for the past 5 years. (it did not start now with Corona). We have just about to bottom out.

Cash is king for the so called "value investor".

The problem with wazuans is that they want to play pata potea at the casino with kshs. 20000 and expect to make a kill or in worst case get burnt a little.

My strategy is go hard or go home. e.g., why should i buy only 10,000 shares of Fahari i-reit at a kshs. 60000 bob yet i can purchase a 100,000 units by wekelea-ing 600 geez on this counter.

A 60 cents(10%) rise is a whooping 60,000 bob. I can make 60 gees every other week/day at the NSE casino by merely betting kshs. 600,000.

e.g.,

I buy 100000 shares of Fahari ireit today in the morning at 6 bob a share.

I sell the same shares leo leo for ksh.6.60. That is a staggering 60 ngwanyes(before tax/commisions).

Next week i wekelea my 650,000 bob and buy the NSE share at 7.20 bob and sell at 8 bob by lunch hour.

I repeat this every other day and i will bid my evil employer goodbye.



You are a good dreamer Laughing out loudly
If this was the case, Receptor would have traded his way from 600k to billions of shillings within a matter of months by scraping together his daily ngwanyes and compounding them through the above daily loss-free skilful trades into a croesus-like fortune in no time! Why has it not happened? Because it is a bag of smoke of course.


The secret in this pata potea business lies in cash. You got to have atleast a minimum of 1 million shillings(and a back-up source of income) to trade/play at the casino. if you rake-in a conservative 4(four) 10%'s in a year that is kshs.400000 before tax/commissions.

Easier said than done.
amorphous
#98 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 9:39:45 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 671
Location: planet earth
Receptor wrote:

The secret in this pata potea business lies in cash. You got to have atleast a minimum of 1 million shillings(and a back-up source of income) to trade/play at the casino. if you rake-in a conservative 4(four) 10%'s in a year that is kshs.400000 before tax/commissions.

Easier said than done.


Asante Laughing out loudly. I too would love to have Megan Good as my second wife, but we all know about the certainty of wishes and horses Laughing out loudly
Age and family mellows us all over time
Receptor
#99 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 9:45:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/1/2019
Posts: 119
amorphous wrote:
Receptor wrote:

The secret in this pata potea business lies in cash. You got to have atleast a minimum of 1 million shillings(and a back-up source of income) to trade/play at the casino. if you rake-in a conservative 4(four) 10%'s in a year that is kshs.400000 before tax/commissions.

Easier said than done.


Asante Laughing out loudly. I too would love to have Megan Good as my second wife, but we all know about the certainty of wishes and horses Laughing out loudly


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Queen
#100 Posted : Friday, June 05, 2020 9:55:36 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 561
Location: Britain
Receptor wrote:
amorphous wrote:
Receptor wrote:
mnandii wrote:
People are realizing that value investing does not work simply because the character of the market changed. Whereas in the past few years the major markets were in a strong bull trend, the turn to a bear market is finding people off-guard. Even the venerable Oracle of Omaha can not many any meaningful sense out of this.

The reason is that the bull market cushioned people with questionable investment strategies. In a major bull market almost any share price is likely to go up. So it is not rocket science to make money by buying just about anything.

In contrast, a bear market is more demanding strategy-wise. The strategies that worked so well in a bull market suddenly become ineffective to ward off losses. The reason is not that these strategies are suddenly not working. The important point is that the strategies were never effective from the onset, only that the raging bull blinded people to the truth. A bear market brings reality and sanity. Only the best of strategies work in both bear markets and bull markets i.e all the time as they should.

And in this bear market, Elliott Waves are even more better suited. Beacause in a bear market, the fear in people creates perfect Elliott Wave patterns that are even more clearly perceived.

This bear market will teach the discerning the very best strategies to forecast a market, any market, any time.



The bear in the NSE casino has been with us for the past 5 years. (it did not start now with Corona). We have just about to bottom out.

Cash is king for the so called "value investor".

The problem with wazuans is that they want to play pata potea at the casino with kshs. 20000 and expect to make a kill or in worst case get burnt a little.

My strategy is go hard or go home. e.g., why should i buy only 10,000 shares of Fahari i-reit at a kshs. 60000 bob yet i can purchase a 100,000 units by wekelea-ing 600 geez on this counter.

A 60 cents(10%) rise is a whooping 60,000 bob. I can make 60 gees every other week/day at the NSE casino by merely betting kshs. 600,000.

e.g.,

I buy 100000 shares of Fahari ireit today in the morning at 6 bob a share.

I sell the same shares leo leo for ksh.6.60. That is a staggering 60 ngwanyes(before tax/commisions).

Next week i wekelea my 650,000 bob and buy the NSE share at 7.20 bob and sell at 8 bob by lunch hour.

I repeat this every other day and i will bid my evil employer goodbye.



You are a good dreamer Laughing out loudly
If this was the case, Receptor would have traded his way from 600k to billions of shillings within a matter of months by scraping together his daily ngwanyes and compounding them through the above daily loss-free skilful trades into a croesus-like fortune in no time! Why has it not happened? Because it is a bag of smoke of course.


The secret in this pata potea business lies in cash. You got to have atleast a minimum of 1 million shillings(and a back-up source of income) to trade/play at the casino. if you rake-in a conservative 4(four) 10%'s in a year that is kshs.400000 before tax/commissions.

Easier said than done.


What sort of calculations is this?
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