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Is Paternalism a necessity?
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tycho
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 12:25:40 PM
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Joined: 7/1/2011
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Location: Nairobi
Quote:
noun
the policy or practice on the part of people in authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to or otherwise dependent on them in their supposed interest.


Why do most wazuans appear to believe in it?
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tycho
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 5:31:11 PM
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Location: Nairobi
In the case of 'Democracy' we say that it's 'a government of the people for the people by the people...'

But then, who are these 'people'? Are they the electorate of the moment?

To me, these 'people' can only be an abstract entity on whom an electorate or part of an electorate projects certain ideas, and also an abstract source of introjecting ideas...

Therefore, a majority needs to safeguard a minority, and it's possible for the minority today to become tomorrow's majority.

The people are invisible and not subject to proof... 'The people' are hardly a 'scientific' entity.
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Kusadikika
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 6:48:24 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
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People are like clouds, they are only people when considered from a distance.

Suppose you had 2 persons at a spot where the 2 of them could see a cloud at a distance. Suppose one of them got on a miniature flying machine heading towards the cloud. The person on the ground would be able to see the other one getting closer and closer to the cloud and finally dissapearing into the cloud. The person on the flying machine may not have such a distinct experience. He may start out with the impression of getting closer and closer to the cloud but may not know when he enters it and neither will he have an experience of being in the cloud when he is in it.

A cloud only exists to an outside observer. There is no substance called cloud.
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alma1
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:48:47 PM
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To be honest, I have absolutely no clue what this topic is about.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Thitifini
#5 Posted : Friday, April 19, 2019 3:02:24 AM
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Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 681
Location: Kenya
alma1 wrote:
To be honest, I have absolutely no clue what this topic is about.

I two_youSad

60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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tycho
#6 Posted : Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:07:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Thitifini wrote:
alma1 wrote:
To be honest, I have absolutely no clue what this topic is about.

I two_youSad


This is arguably one of the critical topics of our time. Since Robert Thaler and Cass Susstein wrote their book on 'Nudge theory' and governments got cosy on using nudges in their work, it has become increasingly important for citizens to understand whether 'paternalistic libertarianism' is a valid concept.

With the advent of 'internet of things' it's likely that most political, economic and legal ideas will be saturated with nudges. The implications are diverse and worthy of concern.

For example, even if GOK doesn't share 'Huduma' details with third parties, it's probable that they may use them to nudge people towards their wishes. Would that be ethical?

There are many other related issues....
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tycho
#7 Posted : Saturday, April 20, 2019 12:09:06 PM
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Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Kusadikika wrote:
People are like clouds, they are only people when considered from a distance.

Suppose you had 2 persons at a spot where the 2 of them could see a cloud at a distance. Suppose one of them got on a miniature flying machine heading towards the cloud. The person on the ground would be able to see the other one getting closer and closer to the cloud and finally dissapearing into the cloud. The person on the flying machine may not have such a distinct experience. He may start out with the impression of getting closer and closer to the cloud but may not know when he enters it and neither will he have an experience of being in the cloud when he is in it.

A cloud only exists to an outside observer. There is no substance called cloud.


... Still digesting your thoughts...
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tycho
#8 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2019 9:57:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Kusadikika wrote:
People are like clouds, they are only people when considered from a distance.

Suppose you had 2 persons at a spot where the 2 of them could see a cloud at a distance. Suppose one of them got on a miniature flying machine heading towards the cloud. The person on the ground would be able to see the other one getting closer and closer to the cloud and finally dissapearing into the cloud. The person on the flying machine may not have such a distinct experience. He may start out with the impression of getting closer and closer to the cloud but may not know when he enters it and neither will he have an experience of being in the cloud when he is in it.

A cloud only exists to an outside observer. There is no substance called cloud.


The conclusion doesn't seem to follow. Change in perception or perspective may not necessarily mean that the perceived object doesn't exist.

For example, is it plausible to say that a mirage doesn't exist because if you get close enough to it, it disappears?

Again some things may not be perceived easily yet they still exist...

Yet what you say sounds so familiar...
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Kusadikika
#9 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2019 3:06:51 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,723
tycho wrote:
Kusadikika wrote:
People are like clouds, they are only people when considered from a distance.

Suppose you had 2 persons at a spot where the 2 of them could see a cloud at a distance. Suppose one of them got on a miniature flying machine heading towards the cloud. The person on the ground would be able to see the other one getting closer and closer to the cloud and finally dissapearing into the cloud. The person on the flying machine may not have such a distinct experience. He may start out with the impression of getting closer and closer to the cloud but may not know when he enters it and neither will he have an experience of being in the cloud when he is in it.

A cloud only exists to an outside observer. There is no substance called cloud.


The conclusion doesn't seem to follow. Change in perception or perspective may not necessarily mean that the perceived object doesn't exist.

For example, is it plausible to say that a mirage doesn't exist because if you get close enough to it, it disappears?

Again some things may not be perceived easily yet they still exist...

Yet what you say sounds so familiar...


Consider this. A man called Odhiambo is 35 years old, lives in Kibera and works in Industrial area. How many groups of people does he belong to? Here are a few:

Wapita njia - He walks to work
Abiria - Once in a while he takes a matatu
Wakaazi wa kitongoji duni cha Kibera
Wafuasi wa ODM
Wajaluo
Wenyeji wenye hamaki - A few times a thief has been caught in Kibera and punished
Wakatoliki
Vijana
Wakenya
Wanaume
Wapiga kura
Waafrika
Wafanyi kazi
Customers
Subscribers


When Odhiambo is at home and listens to news on radio talking about people like this does he recognize himself as one of those people? Those people do exist..... but only to someone who has defined a vantage point from which to observe human beings. You can create a people by creating a definition.
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tycho
#10 Posted : Monday, April 22, 2019 8:57:55 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
I agree with you that creating classes or groups tends to create people. Though these new people appear to be secondary...

That brings us to a curious situation: for example, when a government says, 'this is for the good of the people' is it either engaging in violence by insisting that people adhere to their created classes-like for our friend Odhis. Or does it hope that people will accept classes that haven't been clearly defined?
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