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Re-thinking Democracy
washiku
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 04, 2018 10:49:37 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
@Hamburger might agree

@Masukuma might dis-agree

Food for thought all the same

https://www.aljazeera.co...acy-180731210608113.html
masukuma
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 05, 2018 5:16:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
washiku wrote:
@Hamburger might agree

@Masukuma might dis-agree

Food for thought all the same

https://www.aljazeera.co...cy-180731210608113.html


I have addressed this very thing a long time ago

masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Coolbull wrote:
Robert Mugabe jokes taken too far. This guy isn't going anywhere. The farthest they can push him is asking him not to run in next year's election.



The people of Zimbabwe love Mugabe and that's why the 'new regimers' are facing such a hard time. Bob still holds the cards.

I predict that Zimbabweans will soon realize that democracy is not the better devil. Wait and see.



Does anyone know the story behind Dyson's hoover?
Quote:

Dyson’s journey to the top of Vacuum Mountain began in in 1978, when he decided there had to be a way to build a better device than the popular vacuums of the day. “I started Dyson with an idea: a bagless vacuum that didn’t lose suction. It seemed so simple — bagged vacuums begin to lose suction as soon as they fill with dust,” he told New York. “So, I invented a vacuum that didn’t rely on bags, and cyclone technology meant the vacuum wouldn’t lose suction.” Sound familiar?

The idea came to him after seeing a local sawmill which used a 30-foot-high conical centrifuge that would spin dust out of the air. The same technology, Dyson reckoned, could be shrunk down and built into a vacuum cleaner, omitting the need for a bag and ensuring the device wouldn’t lose suction and become less useful over time.

Easier said than done, of course. Dyson would spend the next 15 years perfecting his design, a process that resulted in 5,127 different prototypes. Those years were tough for the fledgling inventor and his family. “By 2,627, my wife and I were really counting our pennies,” Dyson wrote in 2011. “By 3,727, my wife was giving art lessons for some extra cash.”

“She was wonderful. But most other people thought I was mad,” he told Inc. Still, Dyson knew he had something potentially great on his hands and pushed on. “It didn’t happen overnight, but after years of testing, tweaking, fist-banging, and after more than 5,000 prototypes, it was there,” he said. “Or nearly there. I still needed to manufacture it and go sell it.”


To me that's exactly what democracy is - an experiment! a series of experiments. you try something - it works.. great! it doesn't - you try again next time. it's strength is that it has a fallback mechanism. You may end up chosing Trump but unlike the Kings of Old who you had to wait until they die and a 'good' king shows up - you can correct yourselves at the ballot.
Sometimes, it's 3 steps forward and sometimes 2 steps back but that 1 step taken cannot be overwritten. People think states are in a rat race some of the police states you are idolising will/may come to a screeching halt... if they don't morph out of it especially because that's the nature of humans. Most nyeuthis ask themselves - why did Libyans do the things they did?? they had 'everything'? 'everything'? really? they had material stuff but did not have a political voice - this is a must because humans forget material things. if you were born eating 3 square meals a day and everyone around you ate 3 square meals a day - being grateful for 3 square meals a day is not natural... it's like africans being grateful for the Sun all around the year! Libyans lacked a channel to express their political nature. To express themselves... to be political.


All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 05, 2018 10:15:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
We need to understand that 'democracy' being a form of government implies the necessity of government.

But government isn't always necessary.

Belief in democracy implies belief in ideas that are quite telling. For example, it involves the belief that government is indeed stronger than any individual or the collective.

And that citizens need to have a say in it.

This by itself creates an unnecessary prison. And it doesn't follow that all humans must be in prison.
FRM2011
#4 Posted : Sunday, August 05, 2018 11:25:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
[quote=washiku]@Hamburger might agree

@Masukuma might dis-agree

Food for thought all the same

https://www.aljazeera.co...cy-180731210608113.html[/quote]

Quite illuminating discussion. Me I want only those who pay at least 100K per year to be allowed to vote.

We have 2M taxpayers and 19M voters.
washiku
#5 Posted : Monday, August 06, 2018 8:16:26 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
FRM2011 wrote:
[quote=washiku]@Hamburger might agree

@Masukuma might dis-agree

Food for thought all the same

https://www.aljazeera.co...cy-180731210608113.html[/quote]

Quite illuminating discussion. Me I want only those who pay at least 100K per year to be allowed to vote.

We have 2M taxpayers and 19M voters.


But we ALL pay tax through purchase of goods and services, right?
simonkabz
#6 Posted : Monday, August 06, 2018 8:57:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
washiku wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
[quote=washiku]@Hamburger might agree

@Masukuma might dis-agree

Food for thought all the same

https://www.aljazeera.co...cy-180731210608113.html[/quote]

Quite illuminating discussion. Me I want only those who pay at least 100K per year to be allowed to vote.

We have 2M taxpayers and 19M voters.


But we ALL pay tax through purchase of goods and services, right?


FRM thinks its only salaried employees who pay taxes. The moment you board a Mat and pay fare, you've already paid a tax. Etc etc.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
tycho
#7 Posted : Monday, August 06, 2018 12:16:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
FRM2011 wrote:
[quote=washiku]@Hamburger might agree

@Masukuma might dis-agree

Food for thought all the same

https://www.aljazeera.co...cy-180731210608113.html[/quote]

Quite illuminating discussion. Me I want only those who pay at least 100K per year to be allowed to vote.

We have 2M taxpayers and 19M voters.


Will the 17m 'non tax payers' be citizens, and what would be their rights and responsibilities?
FRM2011
#8 Posted : Monday, August 06, 2018 5:18:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
tycho wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
[quote=washiku]@Hamburger might agree

@Masukuma might dis-agree

Food for thought all the same

https://www.aljazeera.co...cy-180731210608113.html[/quote]

Quite illuminating discussion. Me I want only those who pay at least 100K per year to be allowed to vote.

We have 2M taxpayers and 19M voters.


Will the 17m 'non tax payers' be citizens, and what would be their rights and responsibilities?


@washiku & @simonkabz, Yes everyone pays indirect taxes but you will agree with me that the moment you look at your payslip and see a 6-digit figure, it leaves your mouth with a bitter taste. It is painful and it hurts anytime you hear of tax money being stolen. Before I quit employment, one day a cop had stopped me at Sagana and I just sat there thinking, my monthly tax can actually pay the salaries of 4 cops. And the guy is still trying to extort more from me. And that raises your consciousness and impacts on your level of participation and decision-making.

@tycho, the 17M have no problem watching from the sidelines when we are paying taxes, except where they have no option. They should do the same when we make a decision on how the money will be spent.
tycho
#9 Posted : Monday, August 06, 2018 6:43:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@FRM, I don't think you've answered the question I have asked. The question is about citizenship, rights and responsibility.

And then in your response you start by saying 'The 17M have no problem... ' And finish by therefore 'They should have no say in what happens after the decision of the 2M'. Don't you think you're committing a fallacy of at least logic?
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