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Real Estate in Kenya
MugundaMan
#61 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 6:35:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
hardwood wrote:


1m can complete the super structure and he/she moves in. Then he can do finishes pole pole. How do primary school teachers put up 3bdr+ permanent houses huko in the village? Do all use millions?.


Indeed. And we have not even started talking about precast and interlocking blocks to further reduce costs. I was shocked to see just how beautiful interlocking block homes (below) can be. And at 40-60% less cost than kawaida methods. It is insanity to pay more than 1.5m for a tu-simple bungalow construction these days.





obiero
#62 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 8:54:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
hardwood wrote:


1m can complete the super structure and he/she moves in. Then he can do finishes pole pole. How do primary school teachers put up 3bdr+ permanent houses huko in the village? Do all use millions?.


Indeed. And we have not even started talking about precast and interlocking blocks to further reduce costs. I was shocked to see just how beautiful interlocking block homes (below) can be. And at 40-60% less cost than kawaida methods. It is insanity to pay more than 1.5m for a tu-simple bungalow construction these days.






A bank loan for an entry level TSC employee can easily reach KES 1,800,000 repayable over 72 months..

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Wakanyugi
#63 Posted : Monday, July 23, 2018 1:48:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
hardwood wrote:
obiero wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
obiero wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
davidkenya wrote:
hey folks can 1 million ksh build me a three bedroom house with a small kitchen inside,toilet and bathroom (combined).the roofing is of corrugated sheets , and the stones are artificially manufactured (what are they called?)the house should also have electricity and running water

yes. need assistance?

Its impossible, even with very basic finishing; unless its semipermanent little/no foundation

Xaxa ona huyu,,,,,,,,😋😋
So everybody in Kenya who owns a ssbs house in Kenya is a multi-millioneer.
Then Kenya must be a very real

Wacha kelele bwana. Labor cost alone on a 3 bedroom permanent house can not be less than KES 200,000, materials even in resource rich location KES 500,000; relevant approvals KES 100,000, finishing KES 300,000.. And that is for a very basic house, hata septic, fence, plumbing, electric sijaweka kwa hii example.. Ukiona nyumbe permanent imesimama in 2018, jua more than 1m ilitumika



1m can complete the super structure and he/she moves in. Then he can do finishes pole pole. How do primary school teachers put up 3bdr+ permanent houses huko in the village? Do all use millions?.


I am with Obiero on this one, and I have a little experience. My sister was insisting that she could do a bungalow with 1M huko Juja farm (granite, mabati roof and basic finishes). It is already past 1.5 before landscaping, fence and other basics.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
hardwood
#64 Posted : Monday, July 23, 2018 2:20:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Wakanyugi wrote:
hardwood wrote:
obiero wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
obiero wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
davidkenya wrote:
hey folks can 1 million ksh build me a three bedroom house with a small kitchen inside,toilet and bathroom (combined).the roofing is of corrugated sheets , and the stones are artificially manufactured (what are they called?)the house should also have electricity and running water

yes. need assistance?

Its impossible, even with very basic finishing; unless its semipermanent little/no foundation

Xaxa ona huyu,,,,,,,,😋😋
So everybody in Kenya who owns a ssbs house in Kenya is a multi-millioneer.
Then Kenya must be a very real

Wacha kelele bwana. Labor cost alone on a 3 bedroom permanent house can not be less than KES 200,000, materials even in resource rich location KES 500,000; relevant approvals KES 100,000, finishing KES 300,000.. And that is for a very basic house, hata septic, fence, plumbing, electric sijaweka kwa hii example.. Ukiona nyumbe permanent imesimama in 2018, jua more than 1m ilitumika



1m can complete the super structure and he/she moves in. Then he can do finishes pole pole. How do primary school teachers put up 3bdr+ permanent houses huko in the village? Do all use millions?.


I am with Obiero on this one, and I have a little experience. My sister was insisting that she could do a bungalow with 1M huko Juja farm (granite, mabati roof and basic finishes). It is already past 1.5 before landscaping, fence and other basics.


Building a house is a journey, not an event. The trick is to start even if you have 1m. See where the 1 m gets you, then you can progress pole pole as funds become available. Otherwise you will never build a house if you wait to accumulate 10m in the bank so that you can start.
MugundaMan
#65 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 9:57:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Wakanyugi wrote:

I am with Obiero on this one, and I have a little experience. My sister was insisting that she could do a bungalow with 1M huko Juja farm (granite, mabati roof and basic finishes). It is already past 1.5 before landscaping, fence and other basics.


Most likely "anakuliwa" by the foreman and his fundis. Women are easy prey in the rough and tumble construction industry. An example, a lady very close to me who claimed she was an "expert" in construction once took me to her unfinished house on the day she was about to get delivery for her window panes. I must admit the house was very impressive in terms of quality of work done up to that point, but when she told me how much she had spent, I shook my head in amazement. When I suggested alikuwa anakuliwa, she almost went ballistic. I think she thought I was trying to undermine her construction "expertise." So when I saw her reaction I kept quiet as a church mouse so as not to upset her further. Off we went to Singh with her fundis (who had drawn up the list of materials needed in terms of window panes, etc). At the counter the fundis unveil the mysterious list. Shocked beyond belief was me. The house was a maisonette but when I counted the amounts of panes they had put in the list, they were enough to cover all the windows at All Saints Cathedral with some left over for further usage. After the earlier response of ukali from the lady, I hesitated to point it out, but my moral compass would not let this slide. To cut a long story short I saved this lady 40k on that material day. But received no thanks from the "construction expert." These fundis and foremen are vultures my bradda. Even if you sit on site and help them open every single bag of cement and measure it (like I do) utakuliwa somehow vismall vismall somewhere else. The key is to minimise it because eliminating it is impossible.
MugundaMan
#66 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 10:16:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Amusing real estate conmanship habits in Kenya that I can never understand.

1. Bait and switch scam: An agent advertises in bold letters that he has a prime plot in "Kitengela" at a very appealing price per acre compared to prices in the area. You click the add with enthusiasm or call him urgently trying to get a site visit and he tells you it is in Isinya, Kajiado or Ilbissil and 5km from tarmac at that! Since when did those areas become "Kitengela." Sometimes you feel you want to throw such people into Lake Amboseli for wasting your time.

2. Runda -"View" scam: This one you already know of. Muchatha becomes "Runda View." Gachie becomes "Rosslyn View" and Maroroi/Kimuka becomes "Ngong view." Bure kabisa!

3. Terrible photo scam: Very prime area advertised for sale but with a terrible photo perhaps of the ground. You call the agent to find out where the place is and it quickly becomes numer 1 or number 2 above. Run like the wind whenever the agent puts a terrible photo in any advert anywhere.

4. Elusive title scam: This one usually applies to so called "40x80" or basically anything less than an 1/8th of an acre plotis. The area may be prime but please run away from these guys as fast as you can as there is no title for the plotis. If there is, those titles are 100% bandia. Run also when you start getting "stories" about title e.g. I have not subdivided yet, but as soon as you pay deposit I will subdivide. Danganya mwingine boss!

5. Black Cotton Soil scam: Be very very careful when buying plots on very sticky black cotton soil. They are usually found at the bottom of swampy areas or river valley beds. Ask the seller if you can bring your KYM guy to come and chimba a test hole to see how deep the murram or bedrock is. If he gives you stories trying to stop you from doing it, run. If he agrees and your KYM guy is still digging past 3 metres with no murram or bedrock in sight, run even faster!

Zingine?
winmak
#67 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 11:21:21 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/1/2007
Posts: 538
Location: Nakuru
MugundaMan wrote:
Amusing real estate conmanship habits in Kenya that I can never understand.

1. Bait and switch scam: An agent advertises in bold letters that he has a prime plot in "Kitengela" at a very appealing price per acre compared to prices in the area. You click the add with enthusiasm or call him urgently trying to get a site visit and he tells you it is in Isinya, Kajiado or Ilbissil and 5km from tarmac at that! Since when did those areas become "Kitengela." Sometimes you feel you want to throw such people into Lake Amboseli for wasting your time.

2. Runda -"View" scam: This one you already know of. Muchatha becomes "Runda View." Gachie becomes "Rosslyn View" and Maroroi/Kimuka becomes "Ngong view." Bure kabisa!

3. Terrible photo scam: Very prime area advertised for sale but with a terrible photo perhaps of the ground. You call the agent to find out where the place is and it quickly becomes numer 1 or number 2 above. Run like the wind whenever the agent puts a terrible photo in any advert anywhere.

4. Elusive title scam: This one usually applies to so called "40x80" or basically anything less than an 1/8th of an acre plotis. The area may be prime but please run away from these guys as fast as you can as there is no title for the plotis. If there is, those titles are 100% bandia. Run also when you start getting "stories" about title e.g. I have not subdivided yet, but as soon as you pay deposit I will subdivide. Danganya mwingine boss!

5. Black Cotton Soil scam: Be very very careful when buying plots on very sticky black cotton soil. They are usually found at the bottom of swampy areas or river valley beds. Ask the seller if you can bring your KYM guy to come and chimba a test hole to see how deep the murram or bedrock is. If he gives you stories trying to stop you from doing it, run. If he agrees and your KYM guy is still digging past 3 metres with no murram or bedrock in sight, run even faster!

Zingine?


I like the Rundaview coz you can actually see Runda from Mucatha Laughing out loudly
For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases ~ WB
Lolest!
#68 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 11:37:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
MugundaMan wrote:
Amusing real estate conmanship habits in Kenya that I can never understand.

1. Bait and switch scam: An agent advertises in bold letters that he has a prime plot in "Kitengela" at a very appealing price per acre compared to prices in the area. You click the add with enthusiasm or call him urgently trying to get a site visit and he tells you it is in Isinya, Kajiado or Ilbissil and 5km from tarmac at that! Since when did those areas become "Kitengela." Sometimes you feel you want to throw such people into Lake Amboseli for wasting your time.

2. Runda -"View" scam: This one you already know of. Muchatha becomes "Runda View." Gachie becomes "Rosslyn View" and Maroroi/Kimuka becomes "Ngong view." Bure kabisa!

3. Terrible photo scam: Very prime area advertised for sale but with a terrible photo perhaps of the ground. You call the agent to find out where the place is and it quickly becomes numer 1 or number 2 above. Run like the wind whenever the agent puts a terrible photo in any advert anywhere.

4. Elusive title scam: This one usually applies to so called "40x80" or basically anything less than an 1/8th of an acre plotis. The area may be prime but please run away from these guys as fast as you can as there is no title for the plotis. If there is, those titles are 100% bandia. Run also when you start getting "stories" about title e.g. I have not subdivided yet, but as soon as you pay deposit I will subdivide. Danganya mwingine boss!

5. Black Cotton Soil scam: Be very very careful when buying plots on very sticky black cotton soil. They are usually found at the bottom of swampy areas or river valley beds. Ask the seller if you can bring your KYM guy to come and chimba a test hole to see how deep the murram or bedrock is. If he gives you stories trying to stop you from doing it, run. If he agrees and your KYM guy is still digging past 3 metres with no murram or bedrock in sight, run even faster!

Zingine?

What about Expected Developments Scam? There's an airport, a university coming up. Or even SGR passing nearby
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
MugundaMan
#69 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 11:45:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Lolest! wrote:

What about Expected Developments Scam? There's an airport, a university coming up. Or even SGR passing nearby


Oh yes Laughing out loudly Promising that a "Proposed" bypass will be coming "soon" next to the subject property. 10 years later after buying the buyer is still waiting Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Another one very similar to this one is that the properties are "right next to the SGR station" yet the reality is the SGR station they are talking about is a crossing station and not a passenger station and therefore of little use to the property owner.
tinker
#70 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:20:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 454
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
Lolest! wrote:

What about Expected Developments Scam? There's an airport, a university coming up. Or even SGR passing nearby


Oh yes Laughing out loudly Promising that a "Proposed" bypass will be coming "soon" next to the subject property. 10 years later after buying the buyer is still waiting Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Another one very similar to this one is that the properties are "right next to the SGR station" yet the reality is the SGR station they are talking about is a crossing station and not a passenger station and therefore of little use to the property owner.


River beds n swampy areas.
Agents selling plots near a river bed and swampy areas during prolonged dry season.
Then when heavy rains comes, you realize you are in the middle of a swamp or your property is swept away by flood waters.
I know of a really beautifully finished property that was abandoned in Rongai when rain season came and floods were raging.

Advice:Look for a local elderly person near the area, buy him a choma while you inquire on the history of the property, especial during heavy rains before you commit.
....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
hardwood
#71 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 1:00:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
I heard some advert on radio for some land in malindi @95k per acre and the price includes personal life insurance cover. Was wondering if the land is somewhere near boni forest for you to require life cover.
obiero
#72 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 5:43:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
hardwood wrote:
I heard some advert on radio for some land in malindi @95k per acre and the price includes personal life insurance cover. Was wondering if the land is somewhere near boni forest for you to require life cover.

Hehe. Malindi is vast. Plus that could definitely not be beachfront

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Ericsson
#73 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 6:41:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,641
Location: NAIROBI
obiero wrote:
hardwood wrote:
I heard some advert on radio for some land in malindi @95k per acre and the price includes personal life insurance cover. Was wondering if the land is somewhere near boni forest for you to require life cover.

Hehe. Malindi is vast. Plus that could definitely not be beachfront


It could be fronting River Sabaki/Athi
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
MugundaMan
#74 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 11:15:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
tinker wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
Lolest! wrote:

What about Expected Developments Scam? There's an airport, a university coming up. Or even SGR passing nearby


Oh yes Laughing out loudly Promising that a "Proposed" bypass will be coming "soon" next to the subject property. 10 years later after buying the buyer is still waiting Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Another one very similar to this one is that the properties are "right next to the SGR station" yet the reality is the SGR station they are talking about is a crossing station and not a passenger station and therefore of little use to the property owner.


River beds n swampy areas.
Agents selling plots near a river bed and swampy areas during prolonged dry season.
Then when heavy rains comes, you realize you are in the middle of a swamp or your property is swept away by flood waters.
I know of a really beautifully finished property that was abandoned in Rongai when rain season came and floods were raging.

Advice:Look for a local elderly person near the area, buy him a choma while you inquire on the history of the property, especial during heavy rains before you commit.


Excellent advice Applause
MugundaMan
#75 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2018 11:21:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
hardwood wrote:
I heard some advert on radio for some land in malindi @95k per acre and the price includes personal life insurance cover. Was wondering if the land is somewhere near boni forest for you to require life cover.



Tis possible. Coast agricultural land can be dirt cheap. Especially deep inland. Remote parts of Kajiado also have dirt cheap property and vast tracts at that but you may need choppers and armed guards to get to your parcel once you buy. And if you want relatively cheap beach plotis hit Shimoni but prepare to pambana with the mangroves issue and no tarmac roads after you branch from the main tarmac highway from Diani.
MugundaMan
#76 Posted : Friday, August 03, 2018 8:56:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
What about scams by fundis?(I call them vultures) They are too many to count and I am always learning new ones. Juzi I learned of a very creative one: Negotiated a fixed construction fee to build a certain small structure on my plot. Fundi gives list of materials and labour at a very reasonable price. I buy materials by myself, transport to site and fundi dons his overalls and starts work furiously saying it will be over by sundown.

So after hanging around bored past noontime and seeing the work progressing well, I decide this guy and his KYM crew are trustworthy so let me leave them to finish while I go inspect a different site. Wapi? By 6pm the fundi calls and says the work is "almost done" but they will need to come the next day "kumalizia." The next day very early in the morning he calls with a shocking new list of things that need to be done for the structure to be complete.

Mara waterproofing, mara more mchanga, mara one more pack of simiti. Of course I say a big strong no. I then go on ground thinking since the job is almost complete will just get another fundi to finish at a small price. I almost collapse when I find the progress on the structure is hapo hapo where I left it. Apparently they had disappeared like the wind as soon as I left the previous day. Next time I will not make the mistake of leaving site until everything is done, even if it means bring a mattress and a good book plus snacks to spend the whole day there.
hardwood
#77 Posted : Friday, August 03, 2018 10:23:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
MugundaMan wrote:
What about scams by fundis?(I call them vultures) They are too many to count and I am always learning new ones. Juzi I learned of a very creative one: Negotiated a fixed construction fee to build a certain small structure on my plot. Fundi gives list of materials and labour at a very reasonable price. I buy materials by myself, transport to site and fundi dons his overalls and starts work furiously saying it will be over by sundown.

So after hanging around bored past noontime and seeing the work progressing well, I decide this guy and his KYM crew are trustworthy so let me leave them to finish while I go inspect a different site. Wapi? By 6pm the fundi calls and says the work is "almost done" but they will need to come the next day "kumalizia." The next day very early in the morning he calls with a shocking new list of things that need to be done for the structure to be complete.

Mara waterproofing, mara more mchanga, mara one more pack of simiti. Of course I say a big strong no. I then go on ground thinking since the job is almost complete will just get another fundi to finish at a small price. I almost collapse when I find the progress on the structure is hapo hapo where I left it. Apparently they had disappeared like the wind as soon as I left the previous day. Next time I will not make the mistake of leaving site until everything is done, even if it means bring a mattress and a good book plus snacks to spend the whole day there.


That's how even major contractors operate. Bid low, get the job then shift the goal posts, get paid more. Gov't has been the biggest victim of such games.
winmak
#78 Posted : Friday, August 03, 2018 10:27:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/1/2007
Posts: 538
Location: Nakuru
MugundaMan wrote:
What about scams by fundis?(I call them vultures) They are too many to count and I am always learning new ones. Juzi I learned of a very creative one: Negotiated a fixed construction fee to build a certain small structure on my plot. Fundi gives list of materials and labour at a very reasonable price. I buy materials by myself, transport to site and fundi dons his overalls and starts work furiously saying it will be over by sundown.

So after hanging around bored past noontime and seeing the work progressing well, I decide this guy and his KYM crew are trustworthy so let me leave them to finish while I go inspect a different site. Wapi? By 6pm the fundi calls and says the work is "almost done" but they will need to come the next day "kumalizia." The next day very early in the morning he calls with a shocking new list of things that need to be done for the structure to be complete.

Mara waterproofing, mara more mchanga, mara one more pack of simiti. Of course I say a big strong no. I then go on ground thinking since the job is almost complete will just get another fundi to finish at a small price. I almost collapse when I find the progress on the structure is hapo hapo where I left it. Apparently they had disappeared like the wind as soon as I left the previous day. Next time I will not make the mistake of leaving site until everything is done, even if it means bring a mattress and a good book plus snacks to spend the whole day there.


I am curious what is this being built in a day requiring all these materials?
For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases ~ WB
Angelica _ann
#79 Posted : Friday, August 03, 2018 10:37:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,901
winmak wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
What about scams by fundis?(I call them vultures) They are too many to count and I am always learning new ones. Juzi I learned of a very creative one: Negotiated a fixed construction fee to build a certain small structure on my plot. Fundi gives list of materials and labour at a very reasonable price. I buy materials by myself, transport to site and fundi dons his overalls and starts work furiously saying it will be over by sundown.

So after hanging around bored past noontime and seeing the work progressing well, I decide this guy and his KYM crew are trustworthy so let me leave them to finish while I go inspect a different site. Wapi? By 6pm the fundi calls and says the work is "almost done" but they will need to come the next day "kumalizia." The next day very early in the morning he calls with a shocking new list of things that need to be done for the structure to be complete.

Mara waterproofing, mara more mchanga, mara one more pack of simiti. Of course I say a big strong no. I then go on ground thinking since the job is almost complete will just get another fundi to finish at a small price. I almost collapse when I find the progress on the structure is hapo hapo where I left it. Apparently they had disappeared like the wind as soon as I left the previous day. Next time I will not make the mistake of leaving site until everything is done, even if it means bring a mattress and a good book plus snacks to spend the whole day there.


I am curious what is this being built in a day requiring all these materials?


And is he costing his time sleeping or reading the novel???
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
MugundaMan
#80 Posted : Friday, August 03, 2018 1:32:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
hardwood wrote:

That's how even major contractors operate. Bid low, get the job then shift the goal posts, get paid more. Gov't has been the biggest victim of such games.


Sad but true and I had already anticipated this, that is why I gave them what I thought was iron clad conditions; tell me exactly how much materials are needed and exactly how much the labour will cost and if you exceed it, shauri yenu. They agreed to these terms, but of course when they saw they were losing money they pulled the plug on the project. The other mistake I made was to pay them the remaining 50% balance before I left!
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