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Swearing with the Bible/holy book
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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I've always wondered, does swearing with the Bible or any other holy book in court mean that the criminal or witness will be rendered incapable of lying? Or politician incapable of stealing and violating the constitution? Will a murderer confess after swearing to give truthful testimony? Just one of those things I've always wondered about.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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2012 wrote:I've always wondered, does swearing with the Bible or any other holy book in court mean that the criminal or witness will be rendered incapable of lying? Or politician incapable of stealing and violating the constitution? Will a murderer confess after swearing to give truthful testimony?
Just one of those things I've always wondered about. it's just a tradition/customs... Quote:
Swearing on the Bible, you understand that shit? They tell you to raise your right hand and put your left hand on the Bible. Does this stuff really matter, which hand? Does God really give a f*** about details like this? Suppose you put your right hand on the Bible and you raise your left hand. Would that count? Or would God say, 'Sorry, wrong hand, try again'? And why does one hand have to be raised? [...] But let's get back to the Bible, America's favorite national theatrical prop.
Suppose the Bible they hand you to swear on is upside down, or backward, or both, and you swear to tell the truth on an upside-down backward Bible. Would that count? Suppose the Bible they hand you is an old Bible and half the pages are missing. Suppose all they have is a Chinese Bible. In an American court. Or a Braille Bible, and you're not blind. Suppose they hand you an upside-down, backward, Chinese, Braille Bible with half the pages missing. At what point does all of this stuff just break down and become just a lot of stupid shit that somebody made up? They f***in' made it up, folks, it's make-believe! It's make-believe [...] Bible or no Bible, God or no God, if it suits their purposes, people are going to lie in court.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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@2012 do you know the meaning of taking an oath? There lies your answer.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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I will assume that "holy book" in your subject is the Quran.
First of all we are ordered not to do something haram/forbidden... For example those who are believers, God Almighty tells not to lie. He tells us not steal... he tells us not to kill yourself. He enjoins us many, many good things we can do and prohibits us a few evil things... So he prohibits us not to lie...
Holy books tell us "Do not ear false witness".
Now someone who is to testify is required to tell the truth. So in a moment of truth he says wallahi I speak the truth and only truth. He swears to prevent himself from doing something. It gives him incentive.
So if he breaks this vow, God Almighty will judge him... He will have earned himself a sin.
I hope this answers your question.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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AlphDoti wrote:I will assume that "holy book" in your subject is the Quran.
First of all we are ordered not to do something haram/forbidden... For example those who are believers, God Almighty tells not to lie. He tells us not steal... he tells us not to kill yourself. He enjoins us many, many good things we can do and prohibits us a few evil things... So he prohibits us not to lie...
Holy books tell us "Do not ear false witness".
Now someone who is to testify is required to tell the truth. So in a moment of truth he says wallahi I speak the truth and only truth. He swears to prevent himself from doing something. It gives him incentive.
So if he breaks this vow, God Almighty will judge him... He will have earned himself a sin.
I hope this answers your question. No you have not answered. If it has earned you a sin, all you need to do after that is to repent, right?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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washiku wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I will assume that "holy book" in your subject is the Quran.
First of all we are ordered not to do something haram/forbidden... For example those who are believers, God Almighty tells not to lie. He tells us not steal... he tells us not to kill yourself. He enjoins us many, many good things we can do and prohibits us a few evil things... So he prohibits us not to lie...
Holy books tell us "Do not ear false witness".
Now someone who is to testify is required to tell the truth. So in a moment of truth he says wallahi I speak the truth and only truth. He swears to prevent himself from doing something. It gives him incentive.
So if he breaks this vow, God Almighty will judge him... He will have earned himself a sin.
I hope this answers your question. No you have not answered. If it has earned you a sin, all you need to do after that is to repent, right? @washiku, yes you have to repent and seek forgiveness from Almighty God for giving false witness. BUT! There is no forgiveness of the sin until you restore aggrieved people’s rights. What I mean is, if that false testimony resulted in depriving others of what was rightfully theirs, then repentance is not grated. I can give more explanation to this... I fear to make the post long 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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washiku wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I will assume that "holy book" in your subject is the Quran.
First of all we are ordered not to do something haram/forbidden... For example those who are believers, God Almighty tells not to lie. He tells us not steal... he tells us not to kill yourself. He enjoins us many, many good things we can do and prohibits us a few evil things... So he prohibits us not to lie...
Holy books tell us "Do not ear false witness".
Now someone who is to testify is required to tell the truth. So in a moment of truth he says wallahi I speak the truth and only truth. He swears to prevent himself from doing something. It gives him incentive.
So if he breaks this vow, God Almighty will judge him... He will have earned himself a sin.
I hope this answers your question. No you have not answered. If it has earned you a sin, all you need to do after that is to repent, right? Ofcourse you can repent and be forgiven but you still bear the repercussions of your actions. Many many examples of great men of God who sinned and suffered for it, inspite of their forgiveness. I'll give you a simple example... If you choose to commit adultery with a HIV positive woman and get the disease, seek forgiveness; you will be forgiven but will suffer the affliction. Wages of sin is death (Not necessarily loss of life, but death of so many other things eg finances, peace etc). So many people are walking dead
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/4/2008 Posts: 1,289 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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AlphDoti wrote:washiku wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I will assume that "holy book" in your subject is the Quran.
First of all we are ordered not to do something haram/forbidden... For example those who are believers, God Almighty tells not to lie. He tells us not steal... he tells us not to kill yourself. He enjoins us many, many good things we can do and prohibits us a few evil things... So he prohibits us not to lie...
Holy books tell us "Do not ear false witness".
Now someone who is to testify is required to tell the truth. So in a moment of truth he says wallahi I speak the truth and only truth. He swears to prevent himself from doing something. It gives him incentive.
So if he breaks this vow, God Almighty will judge him... He will have earned himself a sin.
I hope this answers your question. No you have not answered. If it has earned you a sin, all you need to do after that is to repent, right? @washiku, yes you have to repent and seek forgiveness from Almighty God for giving false witness. BUT! There is no forgiveness of the sin until you restore aggrieved people’s rights. What I mean is, if that false testimony resulted in depriving others of what was rightfully theirs, then repentance is not grated. I can give more explanation to this... I fear to make the post long This makes sense. Thanks.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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A little details...
Whether repentance is grated or not depends on two ways:
1. If the false witness DID NOT cause any harm, or it did but you can fix it with the concerned person and all goes well and good, then you do not have to go back to the court and announce that. You can conceal that which God has concealed. He will forgive you.
2. Otherwise, if harm was caused to the aggrieved party, then your repentance is not accepted from God UNTIL you restore what is rightfully belongs to the aggrieved party.
So for the later case, you have to go to the court, tell them that you lied, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the one who bear false witness. After this, then Almighty God now accepts the repentance and you are now free from the sin.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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Mukiri wrote:washiku wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I will assume that "holy book" in your subject is the Quran.
First of all we are ordered not to do something haram/forbidden... For example those who are believers, God Almighty tells not to lie. He tells us not steal... he tells us not to kill yourself. He enjoins us many, many good things we can do and prohibits us a few evil things... So he prohibits us not to lie...
Holy books tell us "Do not ear false witness".
Now someone who is to testify is required to tell the truth. So in a moment of truth he says wallahi I speak the truth and only truth. He swears to prevent himself from doing something. It gives him incentive.
So if he breaks this vow, God Almighty will judge him... He will have earned himself a sin.
I hope this answers your question. No you have not answered. If it has earned you a sin, all you need to do after that is to repent, right? Ofcourse you can repent and be forgiven but you still bear the repercussions of your actions. Many many examples of great men of God who sinned and suffered for it, inspite of their forgiveness. I'll give you a simple example... If you choose to commit adultery with a HIV positive woman and get the disease, seek forgiveness; you will be forgiven but will suffer the affliction. Wages of sin is death ( Not necessarily loss of life, but death of so many other things e.g. finances, peace etc). So many people are walking dead What language are you talking about? Wallahi this is not English, this is gibberish even a nursery school child cannot understand!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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AlphDoti wrote:A little details...
Whether repentance is grated or not depends on two ways:
1. If the false witness DID NOT cause any harm, or it did but you can fix it with the concerned person and all goes well and good, then you do not have to go back to the court and announce that. You can conceal that which God has concealed. He will forgive you.
2. Otherwise, if harm was caused to the aggrieved party, then your repentance is not accepted from God UNTIL you restore what is rightfully belongs to the aggrieved party.
So for the later case, you have to go to the court, tell them that you lied, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the one who bear false witness. After this, then Almighty God now accepts the repentance and you are now free from the sin. On the same breath the corrupt govt officials who steal after swearing in with the Bible/Qoran can only be forgiven after returning our money and miraculously resurrecting all those who die as a result of lack of treatment due to the money they stole. Technically meaning they can never ever be forgiven....  But again the Bible says there is no sin too big for God to forgive. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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washiku wrote:AlphDoti wrote:A little details...
Whether repentance is grated or not depends on two ways:
1. If the false witness DID NOT cause any harm, or it did but you can fix it with the concerned person and all goes well and good, then you do not have to go back to the court and announce that. You can conceal that which God has concealed. He will forgive you.
2. Otherwise, if harm was caused to the aggrieved party, then your repentance is not accepted from God UNTIL you restore what is rightfully belongs to the aggrieved party.
So for the later case, you have to go to the court, tell them that you lied, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the one who bear false witness. After this, then Almighty God now accepts the repentance and you are now free from the sin. On the same breath the corrupt govt officials who steal after swearing in with the Bible/Qoran can only be forgiven after returning our money and miraculously resurrecting all those who die as a result of lack of treatment due to the money they stole. Technically meaning they can never ever be forgiven.... But again the Bible says there is no sin too big for God to forgive. @washiku, that is a very good question indeed. I'm happy you are asking me about it. First, from your example, a corrupt politician who stole public money meant for treatment, resulting in deaths. They cannot resurrect the dead. The harm which was caused to the people, they cannot restore. What was rightfully belongs to them they cannot restore to those who are now dead. However, these politicians have to confess their theft, taken to the court, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the corrupt officials. After this, then Almighty God now accepts their repentance and they are now free from the sin. They will not be punished for death of the people. I hope this answers the question? So yes, there is no sin too big for God to forgive. But you must genuine repent to God. A believer should live a life of continuing process of recognizing our shortfalls, we are human, and we are not perfect, and we should seek forgiveness of God from our failures on an ongoing basis. God forgives any sin if you repent genuinely!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:washiku wrote:AlphDoti wrote:A little details...
Whether repentance is grated or not depends on two ways:
1. If the false witness DID NOT cause any harm, or it did but you can fix it with the concerned person and all goes well and good, then you do not have to go back to the court and announce that. You can conceal that which God has concealed. He will forgive you.
2. Otherwise, if harm was caused to the aggrieved party, then your repentance is not accepted from God UNTIL you restore what is rightfully belongs to the aggrieved party.
So for the later case, you have to go to the court, tell them that you lied, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the one who bear false witness. After this, then Almighty God now accepts the repentance and you are now free from the sin. On the same breath the corrupt govt officials who steal after swearing in with the Bible/Qoran can only be forgiven after returning our money and miraculously resurrecting all those who die as a result of lack of treatment due to the money they stole. Technically meaning they can never ever be forgiven.... But again the Bible says there is no sin too big for God to forgive. @washiku, that is a very good question indeed. I'm happy you are asking me about it. First, a corrupt politician who stole public money for treatment for example, resulting in deaths, cannot resurrect the dead. The harm which was caused to the people, they cannot restore what was rightfully belongs to them. However, these politicians have to confess their theft, taken to the court, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the corrupt officials. After this, then Almighty God now accepts their repentance and they are now free from the sin. They will not be punished for death of the people. I hope this answers the question? So yes, there is no sin too big for God to forgive. But you must genuine repent to God. A believer should live a life of continuing process of recognizing our shortfalls, we are human, and we are not perfect, and we should seek forgiveness of God from our failures on an ongoing basis. God forgives any sin if you repent genuinely! What if the Politician is a Christian or a Hindu or a Buddhist? Should they follow the same procedure to repent? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:washiku wrote:AlphDoti wrote:A little details...
Whether repentance is grated or not depends on two ways:
1. If the false witness DID NOT cause any harm, or it did but you can fix it with the concerned person and all goes well and good, then you do not have to go back to the court and announce that. You can conceal that which God has concealed. He will forgive you.
2. Otherwise, if harm was caused to the aggrieved party, then your repentance is not accepted from God UNTIL you restore what is rightfully belongs to the aggrieved party.
So for the later case, you have to go to the court, tell them that you lied, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the one who bear false witness. After this, then Almighty God now accepts the repentance and you are now free from the sin. On the same breath the corrupt govt officials who steal after swearing in with the Bible/Qoran can only be forgiven after returning our money and miraculously resurrecting all those who die as a result of lack of treatment due to the money they stole. Technically meaning they can never ever be forgiven.... But again the Bible says there is no sin too big for God to forgive. @washiku, that is a very good question indeed. I'm happy you are asking me about it. First, a corrupt politician who stole public money for treatment for example, resulting in deaths, cannot resurrect the dead. The harm which was caused to the people, they cannot restore what was rightfully belongs to them. However, these politicians have to confess their theft, taken to the court, and suffer the consequences of court. The judge or kadhi has the right to impose whatever lawful punishment he sees fit for the corrupt officials. After this, then Almighty God now accepts their repentance and they are now free from the sin. They will not be punished for death of the people. I hope this answers the question? So yes, there is no sin too big for God to forgive. But you must genuine repent to God. A believer should live a life of continuing process of recognizing our shortfalls, we are human, and we are not perfect, and we should seek forgiveness of God from our failures on an ongoing basis. God forgives any sin if you repent genuinely! What if the Politician is a Christian or a Hindu or a Buddhist? Should they follow the same procedure to repent? @mavegs, as far as stealing public money meant for treatment is concerned, yes similarly if it is a Christian politician or a Hindu politician or a Buddhist politician, first he must acknowledge/confess stealing the money, he may be taken to court and charged, then he must pray to Almighty God to guide him to what is correct and ask God to forgive him. After that, God will forgive him this particular sin... I hope the above part is clear....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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Continuation of the above... (to avoid making it long)  However, as a Christian the politician is still guilty of worshiping three gods, the Hindu hundreds gods, and Budhists have various idols as their gods... When they die, they will not have peace unless they turn to the right path before death finds them. As for leaders or politicians, if they become a Muslim they will be safe and God will double their reward, but if they reject this invitation of Islam they will bear the sin of having misguided their subjects.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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AlphDoti wrote:Continuation of the above... (to avoid making it long) However, as a Christian the politician is still guilty of worshiping three gods, the Hindu hundreds gods, and Budhists have various idols as their gods... When they die, they will not have peace unless they turn to the right path before death finds them. As for leaders or politicians, if they become a Muslim they will be safe and God will double their reward, but if they reject this invitation of Islam they will bear the sin of having misguided their subjects. Therefore in other words: As long as you are not Muslim you are already 'condemned' So it doesn't matter whether or not you lie deliberately while holding your 'holy' book. Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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Nandwa wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Continuation of the above... (to avoid making it long) However, as a Christian the politician is still guilty of worshiping three gods, the Hindu hundreds gods, and Budhists have various idols as their gods... When they die, they will not have peace unless they turn to the right path before death finds them. As for leaders or politicians, if they become a Muslim they will be safe and God will double their reward, but if they reject this invitation of Islam they will bear the sin of having misguided their subjects. Therefore in other words: As long as you are not Muslim you are already 'condemned' So it doesn't matter whether or not you lie deliberately while holding your 'holy' book. @nandwa, you must have missed my response Posted Thursday, March 08, 2018 9:47:57 AM. I said as far as stealing public money meant for treatment is concerned, whether a Christian politician or a Hindu politician or a Buddhist politician, first he must acknowledge/confess stealing the money, he may be taken to court and charged, then he must pray to Almighty God to guide him to what is correct and ask God to forgive him. After that, God will forgive him this particular sin... As for your other question, the Christian politician, the Hindu politician, the Buddhist still is guilty of the sin of disbelieve, i.e. associating partners with Almighty God. No religion came with trinity. Trinity, worshiping many gods or idols was not taught by no prophet of God. Every prophet's religion was Islam i.e. submission to one God. I hope this answers your question.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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So as long as you are a politician who is a Christian, Hindu or follower any of the 3500 plus religions that are not muslim... don't bother... your repentance is null and void. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:So as long as you are a politician who is a Christian, Hindu or follower any of the 3500 plus religions that are not muslim... don't bother... your repentance is null and void. Repentance is acceptable from anybody. After that obedience and submission to Almighty God. Comprehensive answer here
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