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Bio-electromagnetics of relationships
tycho
#21 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 3:03:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi
#22 Posted : Thursday, October 19, 2017 3:15:56 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
What exactly is DNA?


OK, I'll bite.

DNA might turn out to be the information interface between consciousness and observer generated reality. The tool that translates information from a space and time zero quantum substrate into the space-time dominated reality that we know.

It will likely provide the proof of my theory that the ultimate nature of the Universe is information and this information can neither be created nor destroyed. It simply is. What can change though is our apprehension of the information through varying our pattern interpretation. You see an antelope because you are socialized to interpret that chunk of information as antelope. A lion looks at the same information and interprets it as a meal.

DNA is one of the tools by which we do this - enabling humans to create, change and sustain a vehicle optimized to survive and operate in a largely hostile Earth environment and to 'create' through the interpretation/observation mechanism, all what we then perceive as external reality.

I find Robert Lipton's take on epigenesis makes a good argument for this. Certainly that DNA is not just a physiological entity passed on unchanged from parent to child but something dynamic that we change throughout our lives.

On the other hand I am still struggling with Robert Lanza's Bioconetricism although it makes intuitive sense. One of my problems with Lanza is his reduction of the human being into a largely biological entity, albeit one with consciousness.

I believe we are A (singular) spiritual/energetic supra - entity that happens to own a biological vehicle, for a time, for many uses but largely for the purpose of differentiation, the illusion framework that enables Unity to operate as many.

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#23 Posted : Thursday, October 19, 2017 7:42:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
What exactly is DNA?


OK, I'll bite.

DNA might turn out to be the information interface between consciousness and observer generated reality. The tool that translates information from a space and time zero quantum substrate into the space-time dominated reality that we know.

It will likely provide the proof of my theory that the ultimate nature of the Universe is information and this information can neither be created nor destroyed. It simply is. What can change though is our apprehension of the information through varying our pattern interpretation. You see an antelope because you are socialized to interpret that chunk of information as antelope. A lion looks at the same information and interprets it as a meal.

DNA is one of the tools by which we do this - enabling humans to create, change and sustain a vehicle optimized to survive and operate in a largely hostile Earth environment and to 'create' through the interpretation/observation mechanism, all what we then perceive as external reality.

I find Robert Lipton's take on epigenesis makes a good argument for this. Certainly that DNA is not just a physiological entity passed on unchanged from parent to child but something dynamic that we change throughout our lives.

On the other hand I am still struggling with Robert Lanza's Bioconetricism although it makes intuitive sense. One of my problems with Lanza is his reduction of the human being into a largely biological entity, albeit one with consciousness.

I believe we are A (singular) spiritual/energetic supra - entity that happens to own a biological vehicle, for a time, for many uses but largely for the purpose of differentiation, the illusion framework that enables Unity to operate as many.



@Wakanyugi, your words and thoughts are so tempting. And I have to cling fast on method, and paradoxically, worship to ensure that I'm not lost...

How can we know what something is, both intensionally, and extensionally. It goes back to Kant I guess, and of course back to a deeper tradition. Can the thing in itself be known and via what mechanism?

At the end we have to consider what evidence means and its reliability.

Maybe this is where we ought to begin when trying to understand DNA.
tycho
#24 Posted : Thursday, October 19, 2017 8:46:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Some critical questions and issues to be answered are:

1. What is the structure and process of perception?

2. What is the function of perception and how does perception relate with DNA and RNA activity?

3. What are the patterns of inheritance and genetic transfer?

4. What are the main electro-chemical events involved in genetic transfer?

5. What are the effects of changes in perceived conditions on genetic patterns?

6. What laws can be inferred within a grand unification theory framework?

I have a paper somewhere of how information and intelligence can emerge from a plasma blob- a pre-cellular existence that would suggest that DNA and RNA are storage mechanisms emergent from pre-cellular activity resulting from subatomic particles and probably preponderantly photons.

In conclusion, I'd say that DNA and RNA are highly contingent quantum states that emerge from subatomic interactions determined by the fundamental laws and their corollaries.
Wakanyugi
#25 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 1:08:11 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
What exactly is DNA?


OK, I'll bite.

DNA might turn out to be the information interface between consciousness and observer generated reality. The tool that translates information from a space and time zero quantum substrate into the space-time dominated reality that we know.

It will likely provide the proof of my theory that the ultimate nature of the Universe is information and this information can neither be created nor destroyed. It simply is. What can change though is our apprehension of the information through varying our pattern interpretation. You see an antelope because you are socialized to interpret that chunk of information as antelope. A lion looks at the same information and interprets it as a meal.

DNA is one of the tools by which we do this - enabling humans to create, change and sustain a vehicle optimized to survive and operate in a largely hostile Earth environment and to 'create' through the interpretation/observation mechanism, all what we then perceive as external reality.

I find Robert Lipton's take on epigenesis makes a good argument for this. Certainly that DNA is not just a physiological entity passed on unchanged from parent to child but something dynamic that we change throughout our lives.

On the other hand I am still struggling with Robert Lanza's Bioconetricism although it makes intuitive sense. One of my problems with Lanza is his reduction of the human being into a largely biological entity, albeit one with consciousness.

I believe we are A (singular) spiritual/energetic supra - entity that happens to own a biological vehicle, for a time, for many uses but largely for the purpose of differentiation, the illusion framework that enables Unity to operate as many.



@Wakanyugi, your words and thoughts are so tempting. And I have to cling fast on method, and paradoxically, worship to ensure that I'm not lost...

How can we know what something is, both intensionally, and extensionally. It goes back to Kant I guess, and of course back to a deeper tradition. Can the thing in itself be known and via what mechanism?

At the end we have to consider what evidence means and its reliability.

Maybe this is where we ought to begin when trying to understand DNA.


Tycho: first an admission. None of the thoughts I share here are original, or even very 'thoughtful.' I just happen to be obsessed by the need to decipher 'reality' and 'being' and I read a lot on the matter.

According to quantum physics, the holographic theory, Biocentricism and many oriental religions, there is no extension state of being. All is intension, based as it is on the act of observation. But spacetime forces on us a framework in which we must order our observed reality in a 3D framework in order to understand it. Thus the illusion of extension, solidity.

In fact Bohm, Pribram and Talbot argue that the Universe is a holograpm. A holographic image seems to be a solid 3 dimensional object but in reality it is a projection based on a 2D lamina - the depth we perceive is not real.

To extend this thought even further, think of a 3D solid projected on a computer screen. It looks real enough but, in reality, it is basically on ordering of electrons flicking on and off, essentially reality projected from a dimensionless substrate, yet seeming 3D.

My musings about about DNA do not seem so far fetched now do they? Of course I could be wrong.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#26 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 1:44:19 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
Many questions Tycho. Let me try a few:

tycho wrote:
Some critical questions and issues to be answered are:

1. What is the structure and process of perception?

In my thinking the structure is based on 'apprehension' of order/pattern and the assignment of meaning to that pattern. The primary tool for doing this is consciousness. Quantum mechanics calls it observation but I think that reference to just one of our senses is rather limited. Blind people can 'observe' (ie create reality) too, so can trees and stones - any matter/energy, the only difference is degree.

2. What is the function of perception and how does perception relate with DNA and RNA activity?

The function of perception is to create reality, by isolating select patterns from an unlimited 'random' potential state and assigning meaning to them. We do this by applying our consciousness (the interpreter). DNA (the projector) is one of the tools through which consciousness is expressed, being both information itself as well as the means by which 3D reality is projected from a quantum substrate that is essentially timeless and dimensionless. The closest analogy I can think of is a computer CPU.

3. What are the patterns of inheritance and genetic transfer?

This one I don't know

4. What are the main electro-chemical events involved in genetic transfer?

This one neither, although I can bet Bruce Lipton has plenty to say about it. By the way he has a new Youtube channel, very interesting.

5. What are the effects of changes in perceived conditions on genetic patterns?

Lipton insists that what you experience changes your genes and sometimes in more significant ways than from inheritance. We are not the slaves of our inheritance. I tend to agree.

6. What laws can be inferred within a grand unification theory framework?

I am increasingly tending towards the belief that we shall never find a theory of everything. Some years back I read up heavily on string theory and specifically quantum gravity. I was disappointed. Most of the writers are peddling BS and hopping that we can not see beyond the long words.

I have a paper somewhere of how information and intelligence can emerge from a plasma blob- a pre-cellular existence that would suggest that DNA and RNA are storage mechanisms emergent from pre-cellular activity resulting from subatomic particles and probably preponderantly photons.

Everything is information, even when when we don't recognize it as such it because we have not risen to the level where we can apprehend the pattern contained within the random order substrate we call Universe or , when we do, we can not assign a meaningful approximation to other reality that make sense to us. But all information is not equal. Some information serves as a tool for translating, projecting or assigning meaning to other information. DNA is one such

In conclusion, I'd say that DNA and RNA are highly contingent quantum states that emerge from subatomic interactions determined by the fundamental laws and their corollaries.


Gasp! Does this mean you agree with me? Wow!
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#27 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 3:54:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Wakanyugi, I'm not sure to what extents we agree or disagree. Today I took a book on Indian philosophy, and the first part I read elicited some questions for investigation.

The part I read began by stating;

1.That Humanity lives in a constant state of struggle for existence.

2.Humanity must plan and order reality.

3.It is impossible to live without a metaphysic.

4.There can be a direct realization of truth.

I spent some time probing the statements and my answers led me to the 'psychon'. And what I get about the psychon is much and I may need to spend some time to reorder my metaphysic.

But what's emerging is that all ideas in the universe have convergence. I'll go back to the questions and answer them in the light I now reflect...

tycho
#28 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 4:12:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
Some critical questions and issues to be answered are:

1. What is the structure and process of perception?

All living systems perceive but systems higher in their hierarchies may differ in the scopes of perception, and even how codes and utilities for the perception. To perceive is basically to relate.

2. What is the function of perception and how does perception relate with DNA and RNA activity?

To link and relay quantized information for use across and through systems (>4d space-time dimensions).

3. What are the patterns of inheritance and genetic transfer?

I think an Object Oriented model is appropriate here only, patterns move both upstream and downstream because information is arriving at a node from a multidimensional field and also leaving from the node simultaneously.

4. What are the main electro-chemical events involved in genetic transfer?

Too complicated for me at the moment, but a project still in the works.

5. What are the effects of changes in perceived conditions on genetic patterns?

It's difficult to explain at the moment. I have a vague idea and has a lot to do with a grand unification theory.

6. What laws can be inferred within a grand unification theory framework?

The psychonic field may be the unifier of all law. Again consider how file types or classifications can be perceived as psychons, and how all psychons in a program unite in the execution of a program. A grand unification theory would be an interface of rules or codes.

I have a paper somewhere of how information and intelligence can emerge from a plasma blob- a pre-cellular existence that would suggest that DNA and RNA are storage mechanisms emergent from pre-cellular activity resulting from subatomic particles and probably preponderantly photons.

In conclusion, I'd say that DNA and RNA are highly contingent quantum states that emerge from subatomic interactions determined by the fundamental laws and their corollaries.

tycho
#29 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 5:43:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi
#30 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 6:30:15 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:


The part I read began by stating;

1.That Humanity lives in a constant state of struggle for existence.

2.Humanity must plan and order reality.

3.It is impossible to live without a metaphysic.

4.There can be a direct realization of truth.



Unless you have forgotten, we have hashed some of these ideas right here on Wazua, with leading the way (BTW what happened to Muriel?).

1.That Humanity lives in a constant state of struggle for existence.

Only in as far as resistance/friction is a very important seed for growth and so we tend create struggle as an easy way of securing this resistance. Like going to the gym. You could grow fit by meditating on the weights and machines but it will take very long. The best results come from engaging more actively with the tools you find there. Secondly the human vehicle, subject as it is to the law of thermodynamics, degrades in a fairly predictable way towards death. We seem to be genetically programmed to resist death and thus we struggle against this: a perfectly natural, in fact beneficial, process. Otherwise struggle is not always a given, some of us struggle more than others.


2.Humanity must plan and order reality.

Of course, how else can we create reality? The basic background order is random, not meaningless but containing all meaning, all order. Our role is to extract recognize patterns in this background and assign them meaning. The Universe exists only because I/You/We have 'observed' it into being.

3.It is impossible to live without a metaphysic.

The human entity is a wonderful creation and contains many different elements - represented in energetic form at different vibration rates. The body is the best known of these as we spend a lot our earthly existence housed in it. But the spirit is equally important and in fact we spend a fair chunk of our lives housed in it too. That is why all humans must sleep or the body dies. It an evolutionary fact that we can not leave without these visits to metaphysical realms. They are more home than the earth is to us.

4.There can be a direct realization of truth.

This one I don't know.

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#31 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 6:33:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
http://www.cogsci.ucsd.edu/~coulson/Courses/200/EmbCog_Wilson.pdf


Thank you very much for sharing this. Very interesting.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#32 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 8:14:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Wakanyugi. Wisdom and worship are the same... and it's the hardest and probably the only meaningful work there can be. I'm saying this because just answering your post requires more than half an hour of preparation!

To quote my teachers:
Quote:
A philosopher had first to state the views of the opponents before formulating his/her own theory. This is known as the prior view or 'Purvapaksa'. Then followed the refutation - 'Khandahana' and last came the conclusion - siddhanta.


For me there's an intensive process between the prior view and the refutation which I call the 'probe'. So you can imagine how much work there is to what is supposedly meant to be a simple conversation.

If you follow the method then I'm sure we'll need an economic system to sustain such an endeavor... but this may be something for another post or day.
tycho
#33 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 8:26:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
For simplicity I'll enumerate the conclusions I've derived from your answers:

1. a. Struggle is a given and a consequence of the laws of nature and isn't unique to humans.

b. Struggle doesn't need consciousness

c. Humanity is a result of cosmic intention.

2.a. Plans and order are fiats of nature and its laws

b. Human observation doesn't create order and instead finds and appreciates pre-existing order

c. The order of the universe is random because cognition is situated

3.a. The universe is monistic and not dualistic

b. The body is real though transient and illusory

c. Evolution, has to be re-understood as a collective behavior and effort of various species

d. Humans have metaphysics because the laws of nature imply and dictate metaphysics

4. If the universe is monistic and all things are connected, then perception is reliable and can be used to access the laws of nature.
Wakanyugi
#34 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 9:02:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
@Wakanyugi. Wisdom and worship are the same... and it's the hardest and probably the only meaningful work there can be. I'm saying this because just answering your post requires more than half an hour of preparation!
Quote:


Don't trust my words. Trust your feelings. Your greater self will never lie to you while I could. I have spent many years thinking about these things but only realized recently that I always 'knew' the answer. That what I was actually looking for was not an answer but an explanation for why the answer 'is.' Plus an assurance of course that I am not crazy, or if I am, that I am not the only one in the asylumsmile .


To quote my teachers:
Quote:
A philosopher had first to state the views of the opponents before formulating his/her own theory. This is known as the prior view or 'Purvapaksa'. Then followed the refutation - 'Khandahana' and last came the conclusion - siddhanta.


For me there's an intensive process between the prior view and the refutation which I call the 'probe'. So you can imagine how much work there is to what is supposedly meant to be a simple conversation.
Quote:


Very good. I am less patient myself. I tend to jump to conclusions and then work back to find proof.

I suspect that soon you are going to arrive at a conclusion so profound that it permits of no antithesis. I can't remember when this happened to me but I know it marked an irreversible turning point in my journey.

The opposite of a small truth is false. The opposite of a great truth is equally true (David Bohm)


If you follow the method then I'm sure we'll need an economic system to sustain such an endeavor... but this may be something for another post or day.


Of course. I would even say the work has began. If we could only look up from the intensity of daily struggle, I am sure we would appreciate this.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#35 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 9:11:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Wakanyugi. Wisdom and worship are the same... and it's the hardest and probably the only meaningful work there can be. I'm saying this because just answering your post requires more than half an hour of preparation!
Quote:


Don't trust my words. Trust your feelings. Your greater self will never lie to you while I could. I have spent many years thinking about these things but only realized recently that I always 'knew' the answer. That what I was actually looking for was not an answer but an explanation for why the answer 'is.' Plus an assurance of course that I am not crazy, or if I am, that I am not the only one in the asylumsmile .


To quote my teachers:
Quote:
A philosopher had first to state the views of the opponents before formulating his/her own theory. This is known as the prior view or 'Purvapaksa'. Then followed the refutation - 'Khandahana' and last came the conclusion - siddhanta.


For me there's an intensive process between the prior view and the refutation which I call the 'probe'. So you can imagine how much work there is to what is supposedly meant to be a simple conversation.
Quote:


Very good. I am less patient myself. I tend to jump to conclusions and then work back to find proof.

I suspect that soon you are going to arrive at a conclusion so profound that it permits of no antithesis. I can't remember when this happened to me but I know it marked an irreversible turning point in my journey.

The opposite of a small truth is false. The opposite of a great truth is equally true (David Bohm)


If you follow the method then I'm sure we'll need an economic system to sustain such an endeavor... but this may be something for another post or day.


Of course. I would even say the work has began. If we could only look up from the intensity of daily struggle, I am sure we would appreciate this.


It's an ancient tradition, and I agree with it. The light is always there, we only need to build our sense of sight. We know everything, but we need to remember.
Wakanyugi
#36 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 9:55:57 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
For simplicity I'll enumerate the conclusions I've derived from your answers:

1. a. Struggle is a given and a consequence of the laws of nature and isn't unique to humans.

b. Struggle doesn't need consciousness

Struggle is a given in the reality we have created. It is the handle that helps us to create. Like gravity, the force that tells space how to bend and things how to move, it is not really conscious. It doesn't have to be. The intensity and effect of struggle, however, are subject to our interpretation and choice. If you think of the earth as a school, those who own most struggle are often in an accelerated class. Remember nothing happens without choice.

c. Humanity is a result of cosmic intention.

Humanity is a result (perhaps one of many) of Unity's desire to experience it/her/himself as differentiated. This opportunity is offered very well in our current reality, with its struggle, 'designer' limitations etc.' Such opportunity and the profusion that results does not negate our true nature, however. One.

2.a. Plans and order are fiats of nature and its laws

Or perhaps they are fiats of being human, especially our insatiable desire to find pattern and assign meaning to it. One thing I take as a given is that the creation of order is a cardinal pillar of quantum mechanics. Before observation, everything exists as a wave function - holding the potential to be anything. Observation tells the wave function how to collapse and therefore what to become. Observer is God (or maybe creation is not such a big deal after all)

b. Human observation doesn't create order and instead finds and appreciates pre-existing order

Interesting point. I heard somewhere that Cats do not contemplate the nature of the Universe and yet they live perfectly good lives. So to cats maybe the Universe doesn't have order, because they don't need it to. Who is to say? We, on the other hand, need the Universe to have order and we observe it to be

c. The order of the universe is random because cognition is situated

It is only random because we lack language that can describe something that is everything, everywhere and every-when. If all order is drawn from this 'random' substrate, how can we even call it random? It is actually 'super order.' I find the quantum wave function a better descriptor of this state but I resent its nod to mathematics. I hate maths.

3.a. The universe is monistic and not dualistic

Sorry to belabor this point: but the Universe is an expression of Unity pretending to be differentiated, it can therefore only be monistic. What we see as difference is a temporary illusion. Like a painting on the beach, before the waves come in and wash it away. A beautiful one though, No?.

b. The body is real though transient and illusory

This phase of our evolution is transient and illusory. We need that transience for the space/time framework, on which we hang our transient illusory reality, to function. Otherwise if it wasn't so, the arrow of time, for instance, would disappear and the Universe with it. Or we would go mad, which is perhaps the same thing.

c. Evolution, has to be re-understood as a collective behavior and effort of various species

Please explain this to me

d. Humans have metaphysics because the laws of nature imply and dictate metaphysics

I don't know if the laws of nature demand Metaphysics but I know that humans do. The metaphysical realm and experience are integral parts of Human BEING. Further, metaphysics is a tool for enhanced perception - the reason we sleep is so that we can have a largely unfettered access to this higher state of perception. We can't exist here without metaphysics. Do you know there has never been found a people without religion or at least a belief in something higher than them?)

4. If the universe is monistic and all things are connected, then perception is reliable and can be used to access the laws of nature.

The Universe is monistic and therefore all things are ONE. However our arrival on earth attenuates our tools of perception and that is why we tend to forget Unity. Perhaps it is a good thing. If we remembered everything about our true home, rather than vaguely pining for it, we would not wish to stay here for very long

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#37 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 10:05:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
By good fortune, perhaps, google is celebrating Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar for the 'Chandrasekhar limit' which I believe has a lot to do with our conversation here.

There's a limit in which a star can't collapse beyond. This implies that there's indeed a limit in which being can't collapse, and if such a limit includes principles like the Pauli exclusion then, the least energetic entities must be cognitive.

But that's a matter to be investigated. What I'd like to share is that:

1. Chandrasekhar was from a Brahmin family and

2. He used the method I've outlined above in his work

Quote:
Chandrasekhar developed a unique style of mastering several fields of physics and astrophysics; consequently, his working life can be divided into distinct periods. He would exhaustively study a specific area, publish several papers in it and then write a book summarizing the major concepts in the field. He would then move on to another field for the next decade and repeat the pattern.
tycho
#38 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 10:09:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
For simplicity I'll enumerate the conclusions I've derived from your answers:

1. a. Struggle is a given and a consequence of the laws of nature and isn't unique to humans.

b. Struggle doesn't need consciousness

Struggle is a given in the reality we have created. It is the handle that helps us to create. Like gravity, the force that tells space how to bend and things how to move, it is not really conscious. It doesn't have to be. The intensity and effect of struggle, however, are subject to our interpretation and choice. If you think of the earth as a school, those who own most struggle are often in an accelerated class. Remember nothing happens without choice.

c. Humanity is a result of cosmic intention.

Humanity is a result (perhaps one of many) of Unity's desire to experience it/her/himself as differentiated. This opportunity is offered very well in our current reality, with its struggle, 'designer' limitations etc.' Such opportunity and the profusion that results does not negate our true nature, however. One.

2.a. Plans and order are fiats of nature and its laws

Or perhaps they are fiats of being human, especially our insatiable desire to find pattern and assign meaning to it. One thing I take as a given is that the creation of order is a cardinal pillar of quantum mechanics. Before observation, everything exists as a wave function - holding the potential to be anything. Observation tells the wave function how to collapse and therefore what to become. Observer is God (or maybe creation is not such a big deal after all)

b. Human observation doesn't create order and instead finds and appreciates pre-existing order

Interesting point. I heard somewhere that Cats do not contemplate the nature of the Universe and yet they live perfectly good lives. So to cats maybe the Universe doesn't have order, because they don't need it to. Who is to say? We, on the other hand, need the Universe to have order and we observe it to be

c. The order of the universe is random because cognition is situated

It is only random because we lack language that can describe something that is everything, everywhere and every-when. If all order is drawn from this 'random' substrate, how can we even call it random? It is actually 'super order.' I find the quantum wave function a better descriptor of this state but I resent its nod to mathematics. I hate maths.

3.a. The universe is monistic and not dualistic

Sorry to belabor this point: but the Universe is an expression of Unity pretending to be differentiated, it can therefore only be monistic. What we see as difference is a temporary illusion. Like a painting on the beach, before the waves come in and wash it away. A beautiful one though, No?.

b. The body is real though transient and illusory

This phase of our evolution is transient and illusory. We need that transience for the space/time framework, on which we hang our transient illusory reality, to function. Otherwise if it wasn't so, the arrow of time, for instance, would disappear and the Universe with it. Or we would go mad, which is perhaps the same thing.

c. Evolution, has to be re-understood as a collective behavior and effort of various species

Please explain this to me

d. Humans have metaphysics because the laws of nature imply and dictate metaphysics

I don't know if the laws of nature demand Metaphysics but I know that humans do. The metaphysical realm and experience are integral parts of Human BEING. Further, metaphysics is a tool for enhanced perception - the reason we sleep is so that we can have a largely unfettered access to this higher state of perception. We can't exist here without metaphysics. Do you know there has never been found a people without religion or at least a belief in something higher than them?)

4. If the universe is monistic and all things are connected, then perception is reliable and can be used to access the laws of nature.

The Universe is monistic and therefore all things are ONE. However our arrival on earth attenuates our tools of perception and that is why we tend to forget Unity. Perhaps it is a good thing. If we remembered everything about our true home, rather than vaguely pining for it, we would not wish to stay here for very long



Let's take a break for the moment. Meanwhile we now know that there are areas that need to be elaborated in order for us to have an understanding...
Wakanyugi
#39 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 11:00:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
By good fortune, perhaps, google is celebrating Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar for the 'Chandrasekhar limit' which I believe has a lot to do with our conversation here.

There's a limit in which a star can't collapse beyond. This implies that there's indeed a limit in which being can't collapse, and if such a limit includes principles like the Pauli exclusion then, the least energetic entities must be cognitive.

But that's a matter to be investigated. What I'd like to share is that:

1. Chandrasekhar was from a Brahmin family and

2. He used the method I've outlined above in his work

Quote:
Chandrasekhar developed a unique style of mastering several fields of physics and astrophysics; consequently, his working life can be divided into distinct periods. He would exhaustively study a specific area, publish several papers in it and then write a book summarizing the major concepts in the field. He would then move on to another field for the next decade and repeat the pattern.


I have heard of the Chandraseker limit - although I can't claim to understand the maths.

Nevertheless it can be argued (channeling Robert Lanza here) that this limit is simply a mathematical validation of observer created reality. Chandraseker happened to be an especially gifted observer (both meanings of the word) and I am proud to sit on his shoulders.

From that exalted vantage point, you note that even this limit is being stretched in strange ways. Star collapse implies matter rapidly accreating in a single, largely inward direction. What about the opposite, star explosion?

What would you say about the recent Kilonova? https://www.nytimes.com/...-burns-into-saturn.html

Two Chadraseker stars (Neutron stars) collided and sending matter/energy the other way, proceeded to exceed any observational limits ever seen. Our Universe is strange. It is about to get much stranger as we become comfortable in creating at the far edges of our imagination.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#40 Posted : Friday, October 20, 2017 11:18:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:


Let's take a break for the moment. Meanwhile we now know that there are areas that need to be elaborated in order for us to have an understanding...


I agree.

A final word, though. When I use the word illusion I don't mean it in a bad way, but rather like in the language of artistic stage performance.

Shakespeare said that this world is a stage and we are actors. He was right. The name of the play is "Differentiation - The 3D Earth Experience" and the audience is all of Unity.

The conclusion I see is a curtain call, a packed auditorium and a standing ovation as the cast takes a final bow.

Well played Humans.

Well played.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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