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Moses Kuria's "Stand Your Ground" Bill
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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I support the bill. http://www.the-star.co.k...elf-defence-in_c1472471
Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence.
“The bill will supplement existing national measures that entitle every person to freedom and security,” Kuria said in his letter.
He said the proposed legislation, popular in the US, aims to protect life and property. “The principle of giving civilians a legal framework within which they can engage and combat crime first, deters crime and reduces unnecessary loss of life and wanton destruction of property,” Kuria said.
He said the doctrine behind a stand-your-ground law – sometimes called “line in the sand” or “no duty to retreat law” – is a justification in a criminal case.
“A threatened individual can stand their ground and use otherwise unlawful force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats and protect property as well,” Kuria says.
He cited laws in the US and Ireland, where there is no duty to retreat from any place where someone has a lawful right to be, and that the person can use any level of force if he reasonably believes the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death or loss of property.
“After some research, I realised as a country we can further improve our security situation by employing other strategies that are effective, cheap and easily supplement the existing measures,” Kuria says.
“One such strategy is a legal civilian deterrence mechanism that gives the masses the locus to stand up against criminal elements within a legally defined framework.”
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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hardwood wrote:I support the bill. http://www.the-star.co.k...elf-defence-in_c1472471
Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence.
“The bill will supplement existing national measures that entitle every person to freedom and security,” Kuria said in his letter.
He said the proposed legislation, popular in the US, aims to protect life and property. “The principle of giving civilians a legal framework within which they can engage and combat crime first, deters crime and reduces unnecessary loss of life and wanton destruction of property,” Kuria said.
He said the doctrine behind a stand-your-ground law – sometimes called “line in the sand” or “no duty to retreat law” – is a justification in a criminal case.
“A threatened individual can stand their ground and use otherwise unlawful force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats and protect property as well,” Kuria says.
He cited laws in the US and Ireland, where there is no duty to retreat from any place where someone has a lawful right to be, and that the person can use any level of force if he reasonably believes the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death or loss of property.
“After some research, I realised as a country we can further improve our security situation by employing other strategies that are effective, cheap and easily supplement the existing measures,” Kuria says.
“One such strategy is a legal civilian deterrence mechanism that gives the masses the locus to stand up against criminal elements within a legally defined framework.” What is being implied by this bill? Legalising vigilantes and mobs?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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Jokes, better be a coward and run and live, than be cheated ati stand your ground!!!!! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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hardwood wrote:I support the bill. http://www.the-star.co.k...elf-defence-in_c1472471
Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence.
“The bill will supplement existing national measures that entitle every person to freedom and security,” Kuria said in his letter.
He said the proposed legislation, popular in the US, aims to protect life and property. “The principle of giving civilians a legal framework within which they can engage and combat crime first, deters crime and reduces unnecessary loss of life and wanton destruction of property,” Kuria said.
He said the doctrine behind a stand-your-ground law – sometimes called “line in the sand” or “no duty to retreat law” – is a justification in a criminal case.
“A threatened individual can stand their ground and use otherwise unlawful force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats and protect property as well,” Kuria says.
He cited laws in the US and Ireland, where there is no duty to retreat from any place where someone has a lawful right to be, and that the person can use any level of force if he reasonably believes the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death or loss of property.
“After some research, I realised as a country we can further improve our security situation by employing other strategies that are effective, cheap and easily supplement the existing measures,” Kuria says.
“One such strategy is a legal civilian deterrence mechanism that gives the masses the locus to stand up against criminal elements within a legally defined framework.” So we can only defend ourselves only incase of political violence. So we are legislating and validating political violence? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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so if cops come to beat you at rallies, just shoot them? Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/8/2013 Posts: 4,068 Location: At Large.
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Ignore the fool. We must all stand our ground against Kuria and his evil thoughts. Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Swenani wrote:hardwood wrote:I support the bill. http://www.the-star.co.k...elf-defence-in_c1472471
Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence.
“The bill will supplement existing national measures that entitle every person to freedom and security,” Kuria said in his letter.
He said the proposed legislation, popular in the US, aims to protect life and property. “The principle of giving civilians a legal framework within which they can engage and combat crime first, deters crime and reduces unnecessary loss of life and wanton destruction of property,” Kuria said.
He said the doctrine behind a stand-your-ground law – sometimes called “line in the sand” or “no duty to retreat law” – is a justification in a criminal case.
“A threatened individual can stand their ground and use otherwise unlawful force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats and protect property as well,” Kuria says.
He cited laws in the US and Ireland, where there is no duty to retreat from any place where someone has a lawful right to be, and that the person can use any level of force if he reasonably believes the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death or loss of property.
“After some research, I realised as a country we can further improve our security situation by employing other strategies that are effective, cheap and easily supplement the existing measures,” Kuria says.
“One such strategy is a legal civilian deterrence mechanism that gives the masses the locus to stand up against criminal elements within a legally defined framework.” So we can only defend ourselves only incase of political violence. So we are legislating and validating political violence? Not just political violence but also all other forms of violence. Eg when a thug bursts into your house threatening to harm you and family you can deal with him live live instead of screaming and waiting for the police to arrive and deal with him. In the current law you can be charged with causing harm to the thug and taking the law into your hands. Also if thugs confront you coz you voted for X, you do not run away, you "stand your ground". If the law has worked in the US and other western countries it can work here.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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I have always liked the 'stand your ground' concept. As i discussed elsewhere we are so into a system that we forgot the reason the system is as is. Rights, Laws, rights e.t.c are good ideas that we have to follow... things like due process, 'not taking the law into your own hands' e.t.c. had good intention to ensure that both sides are subjected to 'the law' but what has happened now is that it's the assailed that is punished for protecting his life and property. I say - pea kila mtu gun... tutaheshimiana!! saa hii it's just the Karao (who is to protect you) and the assailant (who wants to infringe on your 'rights') who have guns. The subject matter of both hana!! you have to rely on the mercy of the assailants or the speedy response of the police (who sometimes turn assailants) to spare your life. but no law or right can bring your life back so - jipange!!  All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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masukuma wrote:.
but no law or right can bring your life back so - jipange!!
 You will be a forgotten statistics even before you are buried. By the way, that MK law feels like its genesis is political violence at the Presidential level (Raira vs Uhuruto) ...... Okay worse violence is at grassroots levels where watu hata wanajuana In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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A few days ago, the gema community in eldoret wanted to install their new chairman at the 64 stadium. The host community was not amused and the governor, mandago, didn't mince his words.
Above example is a snapshot of the delicate inter-ethnic relations. Only a fool like kuria would come up with such a crazy idea. That rather than prevent violence, we get ready for it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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Truth be told, some guys think political violence only happens when ODM 'youth' causes mayhem. Very narrow thinking!!!!!! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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May be the law should come with "a right to bear arms" just the way it is in the US. Then everything becomes a zero sum game. If not, then me thinks the govt will arm one side and leave the other side to fight with stones not fair. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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hardwood wrote:Swenani wrote:hardwood wrote:I support the bill. http://www.the-star.co.k...elf-defence-in_c1472471
Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence.
“The bill will supplement existing national measures that entitle every person to freedom and security,” Kuria said in his letter.
He said the proposed legislation, popular in the US, aims to protect life and property. “The principle of giving civilians a legal framework within which they can engage and combat crime first, deters crime and reduces unnecessary loss of life and wanton destruction of property,” Kuria said.
He said the doctrine behind a stand-your-ground law – sometimes called “line in the sand” or “no duty to retreat law” – is a justification in a criminal case.
“A threatened individual can stand their ground and use otherwise unlawful force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats and protect property as well,” Kuria says.
He cited laws in the US and Ireland, where there is no duty to retreat from any place where someone has a lawful right to be, and that the person can use any level of force if he reasonably believes the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death or loss of property.
“After some research, I realised as a country we can further improve our security situation by employing other strategies that are effective, cheap and easily supplement the existing measures,” Kuria says.
“One such strategy is a legal civilian deterrence mechanism that gives the masses the locus to stand up against criminal elements within a legally defined framework.” So we can only defend ourselves only incase of political violence. So we are legislating and validating political violence? Not just political violence but also all other forms of violence. Eg when a thug bursts into your house threatening to harm you and family you can deal with him live live instead of screaming and waiting for the police to arrive and deal with him. In the current law you can be charged with causing harm to the thug and taking the law into your hands. Also if thugs confront you coz you voted for X, you do not run away, you "stand your ground". If the law has worked in the US and other western countries it can work here. Mimi nilisoma the 1st sentence and gave up Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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FRM2011 wrote:A few days ago, the gema community in eldoret wanted to install their new chairman at the 64 stadium. The host community was not amused and the governor, mandago, didn't mince his words.
Above example is a snapshot of the delicate inter-ethnic relations. Only a fool like kuria would come up with such a crazy idea. That rather than prevent violence, we get ready for it. Being ready for it is the best way to prevent it. In that case, are we going to be allowed to own guns? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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murchr wrote:FRM2011 wrote:A few days ago, the gema community in eldoret wanted to install their new chairman at the 64 stadium. The host community was not amused and the governor, mandago, didn't mince his words.
Above example is a snapshot of the delicate inter-ethnic relations. Only a fool like kuria would come up with such a crazy idea. That rather than prevent violence, we get ready for it. Being ready for it is the best way to prevent it. In that case, are we going to be allowed to own guns? Are there laws that effectively deal with 'political violence' and how well have we applied them? In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Swenani wrote:hardwood wrote:Swenani wrote:hardwood wrote:I support the bill. http://www.the-star.co.k...elf-defence-in_c1472471
Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence.
“The bill will supplement existing national measures that entitle every person to freedom and security,” Kuria said in his letter.
He said the proposed legislation, popular in the US, aims to protect life and property. “The principle of giving civilians a legal framework within which they can engage and combat crime first, deters crime and reduces unnecessary loss of life and wanton destruction of property,” Kuria said.
He said the doctrine behind a stand-your-ground law – sometimes called “line in the sand” or “no duty to retreat law” – is a justification in a criminal case.
“A threatened individual can stand their ground and use otherwise unlawful force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats and protect property as well,” Kuria says.
He cited laws in the US and Ireland, where there is no duty to retreat from any place where someone has a lawful right to be, and that the person can use any level of force if he reasonably believes the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death or loss of property.
“After some research, I realised as a country we can further improve our security situation by employing other strategies that are effective, cheap and easily supplement the existing measures,” Kuria says.
“One such strategy is a legal civilian deterrence mechanism that gives the masses the locus to stand up against criminal elements within a legally defined framework.” So we can only defend ourselves only incase of political violence. So we are legislating and validating political violence? Not just political violence but also all other forms of violence. Eg when a thug bursts into your house threatening to harm you and family you can deal with him live live instead of screaming and waiting for the police to arrive and deal with him. In the current law you can be charged with causing harm to the thug and taking the law into your hands. Also if thugs confront you coz you voted for X, you do not run away, you "stand your ground". If the law has worked in the US and other western countries it can work here. Mimi nilisoma the 1st sentence and gave up Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence. Blame the hogwash media for selective reporting. Just because it was Kuria moving the motion they had to twist the story and bring in politics in a bid to tarnish him. What Kuria has done is to copy and paste the US law that deals with the right of an individual to defend him/herself. As you know we copy-pasted our new katiba from the US one and are now trying to bring our laws to reflect those of the US eg changing Nairobi from county to "federal capital controlled by national govt" like Washington DC and now Kuria with his "Stand your ground" law.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/27/2009 Posts: 1,437
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hardwood wrote:Swenani wrote:hardwood wrote:Swenani wrote:hardwood wrote:I support the bill. http://www.the-star.co.k...elf-defence-in_c1472471
Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence.
“The bill will supplement existing national measures that entitle every person to freedom and security,” Kuria said in his letter.
He said the proposed legislation, popular in the US, aims to protect life and property. “The principle of giving civilians a legal framework within which they can engage and combat crime first, deters crime and reduces unnecessary loss of life and wanton destruction of property,” Kuria said.
He said the doctrine behind a stand-your-ground law – sometimes called “line in the sand” or “no duty to retreat law” – is a justification in a criminal case.
“A threatened individual can stand their ground and use otherwise unlawful force without retreating, in order to protect and defend themselves or others against threats or perceived threats and protect property as well,” Kuria says.
He cited laws in the US and Ireland, where there is no duty to retreat from any place where someone has a lawful right to be, and that the person can use any level of force if he reasonably believes the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death or loss of property.
“After some research, I realised as a country we can further improve our security situation by employing other strategies that are effective, cheap and easily supplement the existing measures,” Kuria says.
“One such strategy is a legal civilian deterrence mechanism that gives the masses the locus to stand up against criminal elements within a legally defined framework.” So we can only defend ourselves only incase of political violence. So we are legislating and validating political violence? Not just political violence but also all other forms of violence. Eg when a thug bursts into your house threatening to harm you and family you can deal with him live live instead of screaming and waiting for the police to arrive and deal with him. In the current law you can be charged with causing harm to the thug and taking the law into your hands. Also if thugs confront you coz you voted for X, you do not run away, you "stand your ground". If the law has worked in the US and other western countries it can work here. Mimi nilisoma the 1st sentence and gave up Quote:Gatundu South MP Moses Kuria has proposed a law that will allow citizens to defend themselves in case of political violence. Blame the hogwash media for selective reporting. Just because it was Kuria moving the motion they had to twist the story and bring in politics in a bid to tarnish him. What Kuria has done is to copy and paste the US law that deals with the right of an individual to defend him/herself. As you know we copy-pasted our new katiba from the US one and are now trying to bring our laws to reflect those of the US eg changing Nairobi from county to "federal capital controlled by national govt" like Washington DC and now Kuria with his "Stand your ground" law. The timing is wrong. The issue will be seen from a political prism. I also however believe an individuals house is his/her castle and and has the right to defend oneself.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Angelica _ann wrote:murchr wrote:FRM2011 wrote:A few days ago, the gema community in eldoret wanted to install their new chairman at the 64 stadium. The host community was not amused and the governor, mandago, didn't mince his words.
Above example is a snapshot of the delicate inter-ethnic relations. Only a fool like kuria would come up with such a crazy idea. That rather than prevent violence, we get ready for it. Being ready for it is the best way to prevent it. In that case, are we going to be allowed to own guns? Are there laws that effectively deal with 'political violence' and how well have we applied them? I think we don't have effective laws to deal with political violence. Otherwise baba could be serving life imprisonment for his "mass action", "democracy is expensive", "41 vs 1", "target PNU and businesses/supporters", "msiguse wakisii walipigia sisi kura", "release PEV youths" antics.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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hardwood wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:murchr wrote:FRM2011 wrote:A few days ago, the gema community in eldoret wanted to install their new chairman at the 64 stadium. The host community was not amused and the governor, mandago, didn't mince his words.
Above example is a snapshot of the delicate inter-ethnic relations. Only a fool like kuria would come up with such a crazy idea. That rather than prevent violence, we get ready for it. Being ready for it is the best way to prevent it. In that case, are we going to be allowed to own guns? Are there laws that effectively deal with 'political violence' and how well have we applied them? I think we don't have effective laws to deal with political violence. Otherwise baba could be serving life imprisonment for his "mass action", "democracy is expensive", "41 vs 1", "target PNU and businesses/supporters", "msiguse wakisii walipigia sisi kura", "release PEV youths" antics. Enyewe uko na shida mob na sio zako  In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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What does the current law say with regards to self defence. Everyone's assuming that the current law does not provide for self defence which is not correct. Does the current law require one to lie still as he is being assaulted or attacked? I don't think so. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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