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executive PM Vs ceremonial president
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Fundaah
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:14:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
What is the need of 40m kenyans electing a president to be a ceremonial head of state and giving all power to a pm elected by 222 or less bunch of thugs?..../or monkeys with loaded guns.........

I think we are just transferring the current impunity problem from the president to PM....lets be careful as the new constitution gets published today......



Rules of the game here: Before you post anything think.give facts only..It's a serious blog for serious people....Do not insult your brother....respect one another...Just be good.... It's good to live a honest life....life without guilt.... Jeremiah 17:11 As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid,So is he who makes a fortune,but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him,And in the end he will be a fool.' From the SK Anti-hate/anti- corruption campaigner..
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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nostoppingthis
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:37:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
Dilusional is to think that the 40M people actually elect/elected the president....

Wisdom is what's left after we've run out of personal opinions
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Fundaah
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:41:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Lets say even 10m vote...compare that with 222 thugs/or...... monkeys with loaded bullets

Rules of the game here: Before you post anything think.give facts only..It's a serious blog for serious people....Do not insult your brother....respect one another...Just be good.... It's good to live a honest life....life without guilt.... Jeremiah 17:11 As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid,So is he who makes a fortune,but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him,And in the end he will be a fool.' From the SK Anti-hate/anti- corruption campaigner..
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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eduu
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:02:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 351
What is the difference between that PM system and Mayoral system we have in Kenya. We have always had very poor mayors in our councils because they are voted by their peers and hence they owe more allegiance to the councilors than to the electorate.

Is this the system we want for the head of the country? Why should I as a president care about the people while all I can do is bribe 222 Mps and they will choose me. I will work for the MP's who hold my fate in their hands.

We are creating a mess for the country.
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Ghezzo
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:33:00 AM
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Joined: 11/9/2009
Posts: 6
You can elect whatever monkey you want,whatever you call him PM or President,doesn't matter.They are all monkeys!!What effect will it have to transfer the Preso's powers to the PMZero effect.The two buggers should just share the powers .But whatever happens,just let me have my peace!!!

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.
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sokomjinga
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:48:00 AM
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Joined: 4/5/2008
Posts: 183
We now have a quasi-ceremonial PM and an executive president,does it make any sense just swapping the roles. No.

What we need is strengthening our institutions with greater emphasis on the rule of the applicale laws.

I think we could do without the office of the PM and be more effective in the implementation of government policies,but then other organs of government must function as stipulated by the prevailing laws.




All beginnings are difficult ..... ..... everything has an end,only a sausage has two.
Taunet Neelel ..... New Beginning .....
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jipinde
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:09:00 AM
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Joined: 12/20/2008
Posts: 37
Mutahi Ngunyi was right. Wont have to read it,a big NO

......the truth shall set you free.
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kadonye
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:41:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
There will be lots of bribery just like in councils.That way Jirongo,Ephraim Maina and Karume can end up being chief executive

The wicked flee even when no one is pursuing...
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Jump-steady
#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:05:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
Another tower of Babel?

It is a big NO for me. When i hear people talk of majimbo,i fear a lot for this country because those jimbos will only be tribal nations. If you were around during the last elections and heard all the tribal talk,then you wouldn't wish for majimbo.


Biggest man you'll ever see was once a baby.
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Tycoon!
#10 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:26:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/11/2007
Posts: 62
Location: Nairobi
People people...
we need to have a case in point for an executive PM who happens to be leader of the majority party is in Italy.
Silvio Berlusconi is the richest man in Italy. His wealth is in varios places in media,football etc.
Some of it he gained it questionably.
He was stripped of his immunity recently by a judge and he now faces a number of corruption cases in court.
Now in Kenya with this new draft we can have our own Berlusconi only he will be called Ephraim Maina or Kamlesh Pattni...or Kabogo seriously wat nonsensical work was this COE doing for nine months

IF YOU EVER LOSE,MAKE SURE YOU NEVER LOSE THE LESSON!!
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Shak
#11 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:04:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
I'm beginning to agree with mutahi ngunyi in support of stabilizing reforms. Let's not tamper too much with our current constitution. Let some of the president's current powers be distributed to other institutions. Let's have dual citizenship. Let's strengthen our systems of accountablity. It's a NO for me on this drafttoo

smile
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mv ufanisi
#12 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:22:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/13/2006
Posts: 108
Another NO here for the draft constitution. Instituting a City Hall like situation to run national government is not acceptable.

They could just have instituted a rotating presidency going from one region to the next. That way all Kenyans will have a chance at the presidency.
Regional governments is a great idea - especially to promote competition amongst the different blocks.
Especially Coast province should run its own affairs. The coast government should revoke all those illegal land owners from upcountry and control a % of the revenue got from taxation at the port.
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kamatakamata
#13 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:31:00 AM
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Joined: 10/5/2007
Posts: 4
my understanding of executive PM is that after elections,the leader of leading party automtically takes over...nobody feels robbed... makes lots of sense...why bother voting for lame duck president...after all he is only ceremonial...who cares how he is (s)elected...i was once a pnu die-hard and wanted nothing to do with PM...but after the last election...i hve changed my mind...forget about voting for president...just vote for your mp ...focus more on the local elections...once mp is elected... thats it...the party leader takes over...there is no other election...sio kama mayor...emphasis shifts away from the centre...no need to storm KICC...no room for Kivuitu to ruin the country...
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mogash
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:14:00 PM
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Joined: 11/10/2009
Posts: 30
My advice to my fellow kenyans is this let us not keep on debating on some things that cannot benefit us. what we are after is good governance and accountability for us to move forward. if the constitution benefits the common man go for it but if not reject it. so let us not listen to this politicians who want to benefit themselves while we are suffering. if the powers btn the prezzo and PM will only make us reject the whole constitution then we have along way to go my fellow kenyans........... There b4 we have been voting for executive prezzo does it benefited us?????.....

A man of the people.
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extrablessed
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:12:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/28/2007
Posts: 290
Location: Nairobi
Its a NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Orange team told us if there is 1% poison,the whole dish is not good for human consumption and should be thrown into the dustbin. The same issues that were in the Wako draft are still there in Kitonga draft...why is it ok now?

why dont then just do away with prezzy and have PM with all the powers and elected directly by the people???? why elect a clown???


Life is worth living cos God planned it to be so.
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gk
#16 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:30:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 488
......from the foregoing its quite apparent,just like one Macharia Gaitho has observed,that we are unable to divorce our defintion of the 2 offices from the current holders.

........until we appreciate the need to create institutions without regard to their current/possible holders,this katiba thing will not take us anywhere!!!!!!!!
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McReggae
#17 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:39:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Guyz,

Can you all take your time and read the draft constitution now that it is available to all kenyans,just going through and so far found out that:

The PM shall be appointed by the president and will be the leader of the party with majority MPs in parliament!!!!.....still reading!!!!


The chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world in which it is overestimated.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Kamaa
#18 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:55:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 1,177
Location: Nairobi - Kenya
@mcreggae

...and will be the leader of the party with majority MPs in parliament....

and what if the leader of the party with majority MPs is elected the president..?

who shall become the PM..?

When you run so fast to get somewhere,you miss the fun of getting there... Life is not a race,so take it slowly....
When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend
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Fundaah
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:59:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Kamaa ...that is the question I had in mind......how does the draft deal with that?

Rules of the game here:

Before you post anything think.give facts only..It's a serious blog for serious people....Do not insult your brother....respect one another...Just be good....
It's good to live a honest life....life without guilt....

Jeremiah 17:11

As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid,So is he who makes a fortune,but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him,And in the end he will be a fool.'



From the SK Anti-hate/anti- corruption campaigner..
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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festom
#20 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:42:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 84
Kamaa,that where the dilemma is. Does it mean that the president can now nominate his second in command at the party if he is elected president?

Don't sit and wait - look for the next opportunity
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