Rank: Member Joined: 8/27/2015 Posts: 138 Location: Harare
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alotoftalk wrote:I doubt there is a company that's more lucrative for employees than Centum. [Source: Annual Report pg. 75]
The CEO Mworia got KES 200 Million (close to USD 2 Million) in 2015. That's comparative to the CEO pay for the largest companies in Africa like Standard Bank and even most NYSE listed companies.
In 5 years he will be a newly minted KES billionaire. A good thing is that he's using some of that money to buy shares.
So if Centum goes the TCL way he'll have some skin in the game.
I also hope they start paying more of this in share options which increases skin in the game and can be easily clawed back. Plus efficient from a cashflow perspective. http://www.businessdaily...386730-kehj0y/index.htmlInvestment philosophy development in progress...
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2007 Posts: 53
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poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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murchr wrote:dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? I have always had issues with directors who declare no dividend but pay themselves handsomely in CASH based on non cash gains in valuation that are easily manipulated. That is plain stealing. No other way to describe it. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2015 Posts: 154 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? pwc are their auditors. If you look at the annual report, it was not revaluation gains but beverage sales that were by far the biggest income driver (8,140,574,000 in FY16 versus 36,792,000 in FY15). See note 6. The unrealised gains in investment property were 5,118,581,000 in FY16 and 1,737,045,000 in FY15). Again, note 6. Given the disclosures in note 14, they seem reasonable to me.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2007 Posts: 53
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researchfirst wrote:murchr wrote:dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? pwc are their auditors. If you look at the annual report, it was not revaluation gains but beverage sales that were by far the biggest income driver (8,140,574,000 in FY16 versus 36,792,000 in FY15). See note 6. The unrealised gains in investment property were 5,118,581,000 in FY16 and 1,737,045,000 in FY15). Again, note 6. Given the disclosures in note 14, they seem reasonable to me. Ok great. one question though,what growth does that represent i.e from 36.7M in FY15 to 8.14B in FY16 is it realistic to you? Also kindly show me the make up of their cashflow figure for investment property 4,695,509 noting that under note 39 they have already handled the 5,118,581,000 when determining the cash from operations 3,631,542,000
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,260
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2016- Mall opening 2017- international school opening- Kiambu- Schools have made indian businessmen very rich and Kirubi will not be left behind. He just need to make schools and concentrate on quality for high end paying parents/students http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/busi...-smart-school-open-2017/
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2015 Posts: 154 Location: Nairobi
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dsktop wrote:researchfirst wrote:murchr wrote:dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? pwc are their auditors. If you look at the annual report, it was not revaluation gains but beverage sales that were by far the biggest income driver (8,140,574,000 in FY16 versus 36,792,000 in FY15). See note 6. The unrealised gains in investment property were 5,118,581,000 in FY16 and 1,737,045,000 in FY15). Again, note 6. Given the disclosures in note 14, they seem reasonable to me. Ok great. one question though,what growth does that represent i.e from 36.7M in FY15 to 8.14B in FY16 is it realistic to you? Also kindly show me the make up of their cashflow figure for investment property 4,695,509 noting that under note 39 they have already handled the 5,118,581,000 when determining the cash from operations 3,631,542,000 Like you, I cannot figure out exactly how they got to the 4,695,509 figure and am annoyed that I cannot. Some of it clearly comes from capitalised subsequent expenditure on existing properties, but I cannot reconcile everything precisely. For what it's worth, I am not terribly worried by it. To put it in context, Safaricom switched from reporting cost of sales in 2013 to direct costs and other expenses in 2014 and that change also drove me crazy trying to reconcile. I prefer consistent reporting, but I wasn't worried that they were trying to hide anything. I'm not in this case either. Sometimes things just get shifted around due to a rules change or management preference. As long as it isn't intentionally shady, it isn't a problem.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2007 Posts: 53
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researchfirst wrote:dsktop wrote:researchfirst wrote:murchr wrote:dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? pwc are their auditors. If you look at the annual report, it was not revaluation gains but beverage sales that were by far the biggest income driver (8,140,574,000 in FY16 versus 36,792,000 in FY15). See note 6. The unrealised gains in investment property were 5,118,581,000 in FY16 and 1,737,045,000 in FY15). Again, note 6. Given the disclosures in note 14, they seem reasonable to me. Ok great. one question though,what growth does that represent i.e from 36.7M in FY15 to 8.14B in FY16 is it realistic to you? Also kindly show me the make up of their cashflow figure for investment property 4,695,509 noting that under note 39 they have already handled the 5,118,581,000 when determining the cash from operations 3,631,542,000 Like you, I cannot figure out exactly how they got to the 4,695,509 figure and am annoyed that I cannot. Some of it clearly comes from capitalised subsequent expenditure on existing properties, but I cannot reconcile everything precisely. For what it's worth, I am not terribly worried by it. To put it in context, Safaricom switched from reporting cost of sales in 2013 to direct costs and other expenses in 2014 and that change also drove me crazy trying to reconcile. I prefer consistent reporting, but I wasn't worried that they were trying to hide anything. I'm not in this case either. Sometimes things just get shifted around due to a rules change or management preference. As long as it isn't intentionally shady, it isn't a problem. It cant be from anything capitalised or what not ,it has to be cash hence its presence in the cash flow.... Their reporting format is consistent from last year and before (which btw also had fraudulent elements) hence am not buying the switching format argument. For that reason I'm calling their accounts shady and their omission intentional/fraudulent until someone shows me otherwise...I'm willing to learn
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2015 Posts: 154 Location: Nairobi
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dsktop wrote:researchfirst wrote:dsktop wrote:researchfirst wrote:murchr wrote:dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? pwc are their auditors. If you look at the annual report, it was not revaluation gains but beverage sales that were by far the biggest income driver (8,140,574,000 in FY16 versus 36,792,000 in FY15). See note 6. The unrealised gains in investment property were 5,118,581,000 in FY16 and 1,737,045,000 in FY15). Again, note 6. Given the disclosures in note 14, they seem reasonable to me. Ok great. one question though,what growth does that represent i.e from 36.7M in FY15 to 8.14B in FY16 is it realistic to you? Also kindly show me the make up of their cashflow figure for investment property 4,695,509 noting that under note 39 they have already handled the 5,118,581,000 when determining the cash from operations 3,631,542,000 Like you, I cannot figure out exactly how they got to the 4,695,509 figure and am annoyed that I cannot. Some of it clearly comes from capitalised subsequent expenditure on existing properties, but I cannot reconcile everything precisely. For what it's worth, I am not terribly worried by it. To put it in context, Safaricom switched from reporting cost of sales in 2013 to direct costs and other expenses in 2014 and that change also drove me crazy trying to reconcile. I prefer consistent reporting, but I wasn't worried that they were trying to hide anything. I'm not in this case either. Sometimes things just get shifted around due to a rules change or management preference. As long as it isn't intentionally shady, it isn't a problem. It cant be from anything capitalised or what not ,it has to be cash hence its presence in the cash flow.... Their reporting format is consistent from last year and before (which btw also had fraudulent elements) hence am not buying the switching format argument. For that reason I'm calling their accounts shady and their omission intentional/fraudulent until someone shows me otherwise...I'm willing to learn I understand your point. Send them an email. I did it once with Dangote and actually got a direct reply. If you don't ask, you don't get!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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researchfirst wrote:dsktop wrote:researchfirst wrote:dsktop wrote:researchfirst wrote:murchr wrote:dsktop wrote:poor centum shareholders.....company has a weak cashflow sustained only by borrowing(bonds this year,last year loan from avic et al all at 6B).The income statement is buoyed by revaluation gain,exaggerated at that!....and forced books as in can anyone show me the source of 4,695,509 listed in the cashflow as purchase of investment property cause its not explained by note 14 ...and by the way that is 4.6Billion Anyone please explain? Who audits Centum's books? pwc are their auditors. If you look at the annual report, it was not revaluation gains but beverage sales that were by far the biggest income driver (8,140,574,000 in FY16 versus 36,792,000 in FY15). See note 6. The unrealised gains in investment property were 5,118,581,000 in FY16 and 1,737,045,000 in FY15). Again, note 6. Given the disclosures in note 14, they seem reasonable to me. Ok great. one question though,what growth does that represent i.e from 36.7M in FY15 to 8.14B in FY16 is it realistic to you? Also kindly show me the make up of their cashflow figure for investment property 4,695,509 noting that under note 39 they have already handled the 5,118,581,000 when determining the cash from operations 3,631,542,000 Like you, I cannot figure out exactly how they got to the 4,695,509 figure and am annoyed that I cannot. Some of it clearly comes from capitalised subsequent expenditure on existing properties, but I cannot reconcile everything precisely. For what it's worth, I am not terribly worried by it. To put it in context, Safaricom switched from reporting cost of sales in 2013 to direct costs and other expenses in 2014 and that change also drove me crazy trying to reconcile. I prefer consistent reporting, but I wasn't worried that they were trying to hide anything. I'm not in this case either. Sometimes things just get shifted around due to a rules change or management preference. As long as it isn't intentionally shady, it isn't a problem. It cant be from anything capitalised or what not ,it has to be cash hence its presence in the cash flow.... Their reporting format is consistent from last year and before (which btw also had fraudulent elements) hence am not buying the switching format argument. For that reason I'm calling their accounts shady and their omission intentional/fraudulent until someone shows me otherwise...I'm willing to learn I understand your point. Send them an email. I did it once with Dangote and actually got a direct reply. If you don't ask, you don't get! They impliedly valued 2 Rivers at 23B. The mall is yet to open, yet to book a revenue. That is when they lost me. Creative accounting at work. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/9/2015 Posts: 233
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Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. "Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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The Great wrote:Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. Let's wait for him(or her) to declare his interest. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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The Great wrote:Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. Or it could be someone passionate about centum?!?!? I highly doubt dj has the time or the motivation to come here and debate
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,901
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Everyone in Wazua normally defend the shares they own religiously cc. Up there I can see wafuasi wa Kengen criticizing this researchfirst guy for defending Centum. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
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Horton wrote:The Great wrote:Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. Or it could be someone passionate about centum?!?!? I highly doubt dj has the time or the motivation to come here and debate He did once especially that time when guys were fired up here at wazua about the 1 billion bonus payout and he tweeted that he has had people are mad about the 1b payout abs if they have a problem they should "ask chris"". I think murchir copied that here
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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enyands wrote:Horton wrote:The Great wrote:Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. Or it could be someone passionate about centum?!?!? I highly doubt dj has the time or the motivation to come here and debate He did once especially that time when guys were fired up here at wazua about the 1 billion bonus payout and he tweeted that he has had people are mad about the 1b payout abs if they have a problem they should "ask chris"". I think murchir copied that here The DJ, Ngunze, Bob Collymore are confirmed members of wazua
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/1/2010 Posts: 272 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:enyands wrote:Horton wrote:The Great wrote:Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. Or it could be someone passionate about centum?!?!? I highly doubt dj has the time or the motivation to come here and debate He did once especially that time when guys were fired up here at wazua about the 1 billion bonus payout and he tweeted that he has had people are mad about the 1b payout abs if they have a problem they should "ask chris"". I think murchir copied that here The DJ, Ngunze, Bob Collymore are confirmed members of wazua Hii wazua inaweza kuwa chama The harder you work, the luckier you get
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:enyands wrote:Horton wrote:The Great wrote:Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. Or it could be someone passionate about centum?!?!? I highly doubt dj has the time or the motivation to come here and debate He did once especially that time when guys were fired up here at wazua about the 1 billion bonus payout and he tweeted that he has had people are mad about the 1b payout abs if they have a problem they should "ask chris"". I think murchir copied that here The DJ, Ngunze, Bob Collymore are confirmed members of wazua Confirmed? Really?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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Horton wrote:obiero wrote:enyands wrote:Horton wrote:The Great wrote:Is this Researchfirst guy the DJ? So defensive. Pulling titles and names. Or it could be someone passionate about centum?!?!? I highly doubt dj has the time or the motivation to come here and debate He did once especially that time when guys were fired up here at wazua about the 1 billion bonus payout and he tweeted that he has had people are mad about the 1b payout abs if they have a problem they should "ask chris"". I think murchir copied that here The DJ, Ngunze, Bob Collymore are confirmed members of wazua Confirmed? Really? What if Angelica Anne is DJ? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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