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Ban on Mitumba Clothes
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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tycho wrote:[quote=PeterReborn]Governments banning Mitumba is nonsense.They should focus on the consumer and understand the consumer behavior. Why would a consumer go to mtumba buy a second hand pair of shoes which is more expensive than a new locally made shoe?There lies the answer.The consumer is looking for value for money.Good quality na ambayo ni ya camera.Not those uniforms sold in Eastlands. http://www.theguardian.c...s-at-second-hand-stalls[/quote] He is a reasonable consumer and getting value for his money Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:mkeiy wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:[quote=Swenani][quote=murchr][quote=Swenani][quote=murchr]
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs? Yes for the same reason, not exploiting our potential
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg? Yes In most cases we import lower grade food
Why do we import? Because its easier, no much investment is needed, easy money
Why are the imports cheaper? Because the countries of origin have explored the economies of scale
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year? Why did you give the figure? Why should you just dress Kenya?
How many people will the textiles industry employ? 10s of thousands from farmers to retailers plus other industries that may spring up from the bi products
How much does an EPZ employee earn now? Meager. the muhindi has to factor in the costs of importing everything from machinery to fabric to thread. You should not directly compare the mtumba seller to the EPZ worker, one is a retailer the other is a tailor. A good comparison would be the Muhindi seller exploiting AGOA and the mtumba seller.
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now? Much more considering the clothes he purchases are mostly donations, the expenses are in shipping and handling
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental.
The textile industry is as important as the food industry. Every successful country feeds and clothes its self since everyone has to eat and dress up.
@ Murchr. Please respond to issues raised and not the issues you would wish were raised. Respond to the above in red, one by one. DONE Secondly, we are not in a shouting competition here, if it's doable, explain how. Revive KICOMI, RIVATEX the latter WSR is busy on the works in reviving it, the former....some case is in court over a land sale. I think some Kisumu big wig says they are the owners
If i explain why/how difficult is is to do, counter with how simple it will be. That way we all learn . It is not difficult. All barriers are created in the mindDon't starting talking of who-doesn't-understand-what here. It's cheap and disgusting. Looking forward; A. Would you kindly lemme know how much as a farmer i would get from 1Kg of my cotton produce?  Cotton prices are determined in the world market just like coffee, tea and other horticultural markets. With technology production cost reductions are possible. Just the way Kari can research and come up with a species of a grain/seed/plant that is conducive for certain environments etc B. Which regions will grow this cotton? [As a small boy we had coffee and cotton farms, now all i see is "semi arid". Actually it is worse than semi, its arid itself] Yes that "semi arid" you see is where cotton was grown. Cotton was historically grown in Nyanza, Ukambani parts of Coast and North Eastern.C. Coffee sells for about 200$ per 50Kg bag in the international market, how much does a farmer in Muranga pocket? Why? What would be different about cotton? The farmer in Muranga needs to sort his issues with cartels. Stop the copy and paste kind of thinking, the flower farmer makes money no? What about the tea farmer? And now Stevia
D. AGOA, Why haven't we been able to exploit that lucrative favor from the Americans? Hasn't origin of materials been a thorny issue? We hardly have enough raw material. Its not cheap to import fabric, machinery thread, and everything else that goes into it. Imagine if we could produce our own E. What percentage of apparel/material used in Kenya is cotton? The synthetic material which forms bulk of clothing needs, why don't we manufacture? (Manufacturing sector in Kenya). Look at all the school going kids, the uniforms in hospitals, hospitality sector, include the bedsheets, blankets, towels, your suit (am sure you aint wearing wool)Cotton is in everything and the by product - lint er - is used to make paperF. Manufacturing sector in Kenya. Why is it more expensive to manufacture anything in Kenya? What will be different about textiles? Simple....not exploiting the economies of scaleRespond devoid of theories, we are re-known for those. I'll be back Satisfied? @Murchr, More than satisfied. Thank you. I will give a general response to your post. But first, mtumba used to be donations in the 90s, not anymore. It's a sector with factories and employees in the countries of origin. Here, a 40ft container gives the gov't at least 1 million shillings in taxes. At least three hundred of those containers come every month. My point has been and still is, banning mtumba hurriedly is not a good idea. The best idea would be putting in place measures that will make local textile industry thrive. You will know those measures are in place if you start seeing more locally made stuff, than imported. Make MANUFACTURING sector lucrative,again. The price of cotton will most likely follow the coffee model. Farmers form cooperatives/saccos, through which they process and sell their produce. Expect exploitation just as it is with coffee. No prosperity, just misery. The 1990s factors which made cotton thrive are not there anymore. First on the list, weather. The 90,000 tons of cotton was out-of-thin-air estimate. We have not been able to dress the Americans through AGOA, with all their purchasing power, how will we fair dressing the poor in our society? They stand at about 50%. In short, banning mtumba is noble idea whose time and space is yet to come. Make manufacturing great, sort coffee cartels issues, make Kenyans a bit richer [poverty levels to below 30%] then ban mtumba. Time period? 10 years from year 2016. Otherwise ban mtumba now and it may end up being "costly" to the country. Loss of jobs, medical bills from inadequate clothing, loss of revenue to gov't etc!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Agree totally mkeiy. Let mitumba be chased away by market forces, otherwise superficial banning will not help. That's why we need leaders who can think without the box
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years @ Swenani, source/link?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years @ Swenani, source/link?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/5/2011 Posts: 1,059
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Swenani wrote:Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years how by reducing quantity or step by step ban ngothas, socks, then trousers and jackets and then shoes? To Each His Own
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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mkeiy wrote:Swenani wrote:Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years @ Swenani, source/link? Daily nation pg 12 If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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kayhara wrote:Swenani wrote:Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years how by reducing quantity or step by step ban ngothas, socks, then trousers and jackets and then shoes? No specifics provided in the article If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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10years is a very long time "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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kayhara wrote:Swenani wrote:Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years how by reducing quantity or step by step ban ngothas, socks, then trousers and jackets and then shoes? Taxes. Duty payable on mtumba will gradually go up in those ten years to a point where mtumba would be unprofitable. My thinking!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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mkeiy wrote:kayhara wrote:Swenani wrote:Ban on mitumba clothes will be spread over a period of 10 years how by reducing quantity or step by step ban ngothas, socks, then trousers and jackets and then shoes? Taxes. Duty payable on mtumba will gradually go up in those ten years to a point where mtumba would be unprofitable. My thinking! Yeah, some people have to get a moderated transition from this business/employment, you have to also calm those who think mutumba is good for them, and their incessant 'very intelligent' arguments, a few thick people, they are usually very dangerous with anything developmental, a "heshimu mjinga" kind of "shindano ya maji" process to manage tantrums from childish politicians, and another stupid article by ndii telling people just how excellent mitumba is and has been for Kenya, it's all good, just ensure they begin the 'action' somewhere soon. A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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I hear business has been bad. Although it may look bad for those trading in the business, it is also good because now Kenyans will think out of the box and probably jump start other businesses geared towards manufacturing. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,882
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murchr wrote:I hear business has been bad. Although it may look bad for those trading in the business, it is also good because now Kenyans will think out of the box and probably jump start other businesses geared towards manufacturing. not when we are still importing new sub-standard and cheap clothes.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/5/2011 Posts: 1,059
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Was at a mtumba warehouse in Kongowea today, the bales are running low, stock will be out by end of month, if importation is not allowed retail traders will either have to start selling the new clothes or close or join others bringing in from TZ and UG illegally that is, they could start closing up. There is also a war between mtumba cars and KRA still in the ring, Most kenyans even those who can afford say new pair of school shoes from bata swear by mtumba shoes, BATA school shoes look 8 years old in the first week, mtumba school shoes usually last a full year or just don't fit anymore and are handed down. For cars consumers complain that the new cars sold in kenya are very bare with few extras and for say the 5m getting a new toyota double cab can get you a top spec ford ranger and spare change on top. in short Kenyans want quality items for fair price, I would like for mtumba clothes never to come back, some kenyans will fill in the gaps, quality will come up later. To Each His Own
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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kayhara wrote: Was at a mtumba warehouse in Kongowea today, the bales are running low, stock will be out by end of month, if importation is not allowed retail traders will either have to start selling the new clothes or close or join others bringing in from TZ and UG illegally that is, they could start closing up.
There is also a war between mtumba cars and KRA still in the ring,
Most kenyans even those who can afford say new pair of school shoes from bata swear by mtumba shoes, BATA school shoes look 8 years old in the first week, mtumba school shoes usually last a full year or just don't fit anymore and are handed down.
For cars consumers complain that the new cars sold in kenya are very bare with few extras and for say the 5m getting a new toyota double cab can get you a top spec ford ranger and spare change on top.
in short Kenyans want quality items for fair price, I would like for mtumba clothes never to come back, some kenyans will fill in the gaps, quality will come up later. When you think of mitumba clothes being made at EPZ Athiriver...going to US/UK etc and then coming back as Mtumba and being sold at the same price as new, you have to wonder what is this quality we are seeking. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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I will never understand a gov't policy that in effect calls it's citizens cheap. I don't mind second hand clothes. They serve a purpose in every economy even the biggest ones. What I don't understand is how gov't can allow the death of a local industry so as to be kind to the merchants of second hand underwear. Kenyans won't die without mitumba. We can start visiting our local tailors. This mitumba business has killed the once flourishing cotton industry and tailors all over the country. The gov't must take this opportunity to reduce their uptake going forward. Tailors can employ more people in Kenya than second hand underwear sellers. They are different from car traders who are being cheated out of their living by fake kenya manufacturing plants that manufactur nothing and price a car 3x it's true cost worldwide. Mitumba must go for the sake of the cotton industry in this region. And at least so that we can get women in Kenya not wearing shiffon coz it's 100 bob. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,882
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alma1 wrote:I will never understand a gov't policy that in effect calls it's citizens cheap.
I don't mind second hand clothes. They serve a purpose in every economy even the biggest ones.
What I don't understand is how gov't can allow the death of a local industry so as to be kind to the merchants of second hand underwear.
Kenyans won't die without mitumba. We can start visiting our local tailors.
This mitumba business has killed the once flourishing cotton industry and tailors all over the country.
The gov't must take this opportunity to reduce their uptake going forward. Tailors can employ more people in Kenya than second hand underwear sellers.
They are different from car traders who are being cheated out of their living by fake kenya manufacturing plants that manufactur nothing and price a car 3x it's true cost worldwide.
Mitumba must go for the sake of the cotton industry in this region.
And at least so that we can get women in Kenya not wearing shiffon coz it's 100 bob. where will we grow cotton? we are already cutting down tea and coffee for buildings. we would probably end up importing the fabrics too. unless many things are changed, any cotton industry will always go the way of the sugarcane industry.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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mkenyan wrote:alma1 wrote:I will never understand a gov't policy that in effect calls it's citizens cheap.
I don't mind second hand clothes. They serve a purpose in every economy even the biggest ones.
What I don't understand is how gov't can allow the death of a local industry so as to be kind to the merchants of second hand underwear.
Kenyans won't die without mitumba. We can start visiting our local tailors.
This mitumba business has killed the once flourishing cotton industry and tailors all over the country.
The gov't must take this opportunity to reduce their uptake going forward. Tailors can employ more people in Kenya than second hand underwear sellers.
They are different from car traders who are being cheated out of their living by fake kenya manufacturing plants that manufactur nothing and price a car 3x it's true cost worldwide.
Mitumba must go for the sake of the cotton industry in this region.
And at least so that we can get women in Kenya not wearing shiffon coz it's 100 bob. where will we grow cotton? we are already cutting down tea and coffee for buildings. we would probably end up importing the fabrics too. unless many things are changed, any cotton industry will always go the way of the sugarcane industry. Cotton is not grown in tea/coffee producing areas. Cotton was killed by Moi to punish his enemies in Nyanza (Kisumu Cotton Millers KICOMI), its can easily grow in Ukambani (Makueni), TharakaNithi, Nyanza and other semi arid areas. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,882
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murchr wrote:kayhara wrote: Was at a mtumba warehouse in Kongowea today, the bales are running low, stock will be out by end of month, if importation is not allowed retail traders will either have to start selling the new clothes or close or join others bringing in from TZ and UG illegally that is, they could start closing up.
There is also a war between mtumba cars and KRA still in the ring,
Most kenyans even those who can afford say new pair of school shoes from bata swear by mtumba shoes, BATA school shoes look 8 years old in the first week, mtumba school shoes usually last a full year or just don't fit anymore and are handed down.
For cars consumers complain that the new cars sold in kenya are very bare with few extras and for say the 5m getting a new toyota double cab can get you a top spec ford ranger and spare change on top.
in short Kenyans want quality items for fair price, I would like for mtumba clothes never to come back, some kenyans will fill in the gaps, quality will come up later. When you think of mitumba clothes being made at EPZ Athiriver... going to US/UK etc and then coming back as Mtumba and being sold at the same price as new, you have to wonder what is this quality we are seeking. not true
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