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Ban on Mitumba Clothes
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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850 A YEAR? ouch!! that's blood money. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. Labour costs in Kenya are very low, in this economy where an MP earns close to 1M, there are watchmen and housegals earning less than 10K so the labor question is out. (Hey have I not seen you commenting on the thread about Kenyans earning 100K and above?) All the other variables are just that, variables can be changed. We are living in times when we are producing more power than we are consuming. The infrastructure question will be solved...if you ask me, we have better infrastructure than Cambodia one of the leaders in textile production. You might think that a housegirl earning 7K is cheap but trust me it's not cheap.Housegirls in Ethiopia are paid $ 20 dollars by middle class and those who are remunerated well get Us $ 50. They leave those jobs for U$ 100 jobs in dubai per month.You should know that labour makes a huge component of pricing in agricultural and industrial products. I see you also forgot to mention that cambodia has some of the lowest wages in the world. You might think that those are variables that can be varied but those variables are very important since they determine the cost of living which is in turn used to negotiate for wages. In Ethiopia, a nationally recruited finance manager employed by a multinational earns US $ 2,500 while in Kenya a nationally recruited finance manager for the same multinational doesn't make anything less than US $5K. If we do not work on those petty issues, we will ban mitumba but products from Asia will still come in at a very cheap price. Why do you think most manafucturing companies in US are shipping their jobs to Asian countries? You seem to forget that Kenyans are still taking those $100 jobs in Dubai. The minimum wage in Cambodia is up to $140 from $100 in 2014 sembuse kenya? Do you know the same garment workers in EPZ here in Kenya make double that? while guards and cleaners make what the garment workers are making in Cambodia Introduce me to one garment worker who earns 28 000PM  Quote:
Alltex EPZ Limited
GARMENT TECHNICIAN / SEWING SUPERVISOR
Job Location : Nairobi (Kenya) Experience : 1-5 Years Salary : 850 USD P. A
Job Description
Preparing sample for production line, preparing sewing lay - out, setting the targets for production line, introducing the style to the operators how to achieve given target with maintaining the required quality standards, maintaining the given production schedules.
Key Skill
Eligibility Criteria
Must have 5 to 7 years experience in similar capacity. Good experience in textile and textile industry. Good communication and leadership skill. Computer Preferred.
Informations:
Salary : 850 USD ( Per Annum )
Industry : Garment/Apparels
Functional / Role : Supervisor
Gender Prefrence : Any
Position : 3
Company Profile
Alltex EPZ Limited, Nairobi, Kenya
Alltex epz is one of the leading garments exporter in Kenya under the initiative of AGOA , with the production capacity of over 500,000 gmts per month to USA market, with the total work force of 1850 employees
That is a job posting of 5 years ago!CBA made in 2011 for epz workersIf Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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Uganda has banned mitumbaIf Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:[quote=Swenani][quote=murchr][quote=Swenani][quote=murchr]
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. @ Murchr. Please respond to issues raised and not the issues you would wish were raised. Respond to the above in red, one by one. Secondly, we are not in a shouting competition here, if it's doable, explain how. If i explain why/how difficult is is to do, counter with how simple it will be. That way we all learn. Don't starting talking of who-doesn't-understand-what here. It's cheap and disgusting. Looking forward; A. Would you kindly lemme know how much as a farmer i would get from 1Kg of my cotton produce? B. Which regions will grow this cotton? [As a small boy we had coffee and cotton farms, now all i see is "semi arid". Actually it is worse than semi, its arid itself] C. Coffee sells for about 200$ per 50Kg bag in the international market, how much does a farmer in Muranga pocket? Why? What would be different about cotton? D. AGOA, Why haven't we been able to exploit that lucrative favor from the Americans? Hasn't origin of materials been a thorny issue? E. What percentage of apparel/material used in Kenya is cotton? The synthetic material which forms bulk of clothing needs, why don't we manufacture? (Manufacturing sector in Kenya). F. Manufacturing sector in Kenya. Why is it more expensive to manufacture anything in Kenya? What will be different about textiles? Respond devoid of theories, we are re-known for those. I'll be back
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,882
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. Labour costs in Kenya are very low, in this economy where an MP earns close to 1M, there are watchmen and housegals earning less than 10K so the labor question is out. (Hey have I not seen you commenting on the thread about Kenyans earning 100K and above?) All the other variables are just that, variables can be changed. We are living in times when we are producing more power than we are consuming. The infrastructure question will be solved...if you ask me, we have better infrastructure than Cambodia one of the leaders in textile production. You might think that a housegirl earning 7K is cheap but trust me it's not cheap.Housegirls in Ethiopia are paid $ 20 dollars by middle class and those who are remunerated well get Us $ 50. They leave those jobs for U$ 100 jobs in dubai per month.You should know that labour makes a huge component of pricing in agricultural and industrial products. I see you also forgot to mention that cambodia has some of the lowest wages in the world. You might think that those are variables that can be varied but those variables are very important since they determine the cost of living which is in turn used to negotiate for wages. In Ethiopia, a nationally recruited finance manager employed by a multinational earns US $ 2,500 while in Kenya a nationally recruited finance manager for the same multinational doesn't make anything less than US $5K. If we do not work on those petty issues, we will ban mitumba but products from Asia will still come in at a very cheap price. Why do you think most manafucturing companies in US are shipping their jobs to Asian countries? You seem to forget that Kenyans are still taking those $100 jobs in Dubai. The minimum wage in Cambodia is up to $140 from $100 in 2014 sembuse kenya? there are actually two labour markets in kenya so to say. the first is the ones who breach the law and pay less than the minimum wage. it seems that you are basing your argument on these illegal operations. the second are those who stick to the law and pay at least the minimum wage. if you were to set up a legitimate business in kenya with all the licensing and statutory payments (paye, nhif, nssf, nita etc) then you fall under the second group. and that is before the unions and their cba's hit you. and don't forget all the statutory and constitutional rights that the employees have (e.g. you would need to give all your female employees 3 months paid leave regardless of how many they are and even if they get pregnant every 10 months - and you can't discriminate in hiring only males to the exclusion of the females) and which may not be available in other jurisdictions. the reality is that labour costs in kenya are very high.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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mkeiy wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:[quote=Swenani][quote=murchr][quote=Swenani][quote=murchr]
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs? Yes for the same reason, not exploiting our potential
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg? Yes In most cases we import lower grade food
Why do we import? Because its easier, no much investment is needed, easy money
Why are the imports cheaper? Because the countries of origin have explored the economies of scale
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year? Why did you give the figure? Why should you just dress Kenya?
How many people will the textiles industry employ? 10s of thousands from farmers to retailers plus other industries that may spring up from the bi products
How much does an EPZ employee earn now? Meager. the muhindi has to factor in the costs of importing everything from machinery to fabric to thread. You should not directly compare the mtumba seller to the EPZ worker, one is a retailer the other is a tailor. A good comparison would be the Muhindi seller exploiting AGOA and the mtumba seller.
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now? Much more considering the clothes he purchases are mostly donations, the expenses are in shipping and handling
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental.
The textile industry is as important as the food industry. Every successful country feeds and clothes its self since everyone has to eat and dress up.
@ Murchr. Please respond to issues raised and not the issues you would wish were raised. Respond to the above in red, one by one. DONE Secondly, we are not in a shouting competition here, if it's doable, explain how. Revive KICOMI, RIVATEX the latter WSR is busy on the works in reviving it, the former....some case is in court over a land sale. I think some Kisumu big wig says they are the owners
If i explain why/how difficult is is to do, counter with how simple it will be. That way we all learn . It is not difficult. All barriers are created in the mindDon't starting talking of who-doesn't-understand-what here. It's cheap and disgusting. Looking forward; A. Would you kindly lemme know how much as a farmer i would get from 1Kg of my cotton produce?  Cotton prices are determined in the world market just like coffee, tea and other horticultural markets. With technology production cost reductions are possible. Just the way Kari can research and come up with a species of a grain/seed/plant that is conducive for certain environments etc B. Which regions will grow this cotton? [As a small boy we had coffee and cotton farms, now all i see is "semi arid". Actually it is worse than semi, its arid itself] Yes that "semi arid" you see is where cotton was grown. Cotton was historically grown in Nyanza, Ukambani parts of Coast and North Eastern.C. Coffee sells for about 200$ per 50Kg bag in the international market, how much does a farmer in Muranga pocket? Why? What would be different about cotton? The farmer in Muranga needs to sort his issues with cartels. Stop the copy and paste kind of thinking, the flower farmer makes money no? What about the tea farmer? And now Stevia
D. AGOA, Why haven't we been able to exploit that lucrative favor from the Americans? Hasn't origin of materials been a thorny issue? We hardly have enough raw material. Its not cheap to import fabric, machinery thread, and everything else that goes into it. Imagine if we could produce our own E. What percentage of apparel/material used in Kenya is cotton? The synthetic material which forms bulk of clothing needs, why don't we manufacture? (Manufacturing sector in Kenya). Look at all the school going kids, the uniforms in hospitals, hospitality sector, include the bedsheets, blankets, towels, your suit (am sure you aint wearing wool)Cotton is in everything and the by product - lint er - is used to make paperF. Manufacturing sector in Kenya. Why is it more expensive to manufacture anything in Kenya? What will be different about textiles? Simple....not exploiting the economies of scaleRespond devoid of theories, we are re-known for those. I'll be back Satisfied? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir  at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that. The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) Thanks @nakujua. Insightful!!! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) If the EPZ guy can export "quality jeans" from imported fabric at a profit, why cant that be replicated? I told you the "tax, infrastructure etc" are variables that are not fixed. It would of course be expensive to be a lone ranger....not saying that they dont exist...but change has to begin from the start of the supply chain the farmer. A tailor can never maximize on profits if they depend on 80% imported raw materials. @nakujua doesn't tell you that he still makes money. Nakujua, have you bought any product from Rivatex? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) If the EPZ guy can export "quality jeans" from imported fabric at a profit, why cant that be replicated? I told you the "tax, infrastructure etc" are variables that are not fixed. It would of course be expensive to be a lone ranger....not saying that they dont exist...but change has to begin from the start of the supply chain the farmer. A tailor can never maximize on profits if they depend on 80% imported raw materials. @nakujua doesn't tell you that he still makes money. Nakujua, have you bought any product from Rivatex? I make a few coins, can't complain on that I am still growing and hope to one day be dressing the whole region EPZ is one system I have never fully understood well, but I think they import the fabrics at a lower tax rate or none at all, with the main condition being that they have to export all of them, none should find their way into the local market. Rivatex do not do major dress making fabric per say, apart from kitenge, the last I checked with them they were doing, bedsheets, some maasai shukas, curtains, kitenge, lesos and that flannel fabric mostly used for baby clothing. Even the other fabric manufacturers at least those i know of, mostly do kitenge and lesos, funny thing is that the local fabric guys are way more expensive than the imports (china and india) for what they produce.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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nakujua wrote:Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way From this response you get the why I advocate the banning of Mtumba. To grease the squeaky wheel. If mtumba exists because of the low end customer, them nakujua should develop or contract someone to develop a cheap garment. Hio haiwezekani? If mtumba exist because people love wearing clothes that have been worn by someone else, then Kenyans should provide the clothing. There are flea markets in the west too....not imported clothes tho. The stuff we get as mtumba is that which they could not sell to their market. Back in the days, there was a beba beba guy who collected clothes in exchange of plastic basins and buckets...that guy should be collecting nakujuas cloths that Othelo wore and selling them to swenani. Retain money circulating in our economy. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way From this response you get the why I advocate the banning of Mtumba. To grease the squeaky wheel. If mtumba exists because of the low end customer, them nakujua should develop or contract someone to develop a cheap garment. Hio haiwezekani? If mtumba exist because people love wearing clothes that have been worn by someone else, then Kenyans should provide the clothing. There are flea markets in the west too....not imported clothes tho. The stuff we get as mtumba is that which they could not sell to their market. Back in the days, there was a beba beba guy who collected clothes in exchange of plastic basins and buckets...that guy should be collecting nakujuas cloths that Othelo wore and selling them to swenani. Retain money circulating in our economy. Thats an interesting angle, but I don't think the middle/working class can sustain the ripple down effect to clothe the masses, plus if Othelo continues buying imports from turkey and dubai, nakujua will never sell his clothes and Swenani might never get the clothes passed down and we do not want him walking around naked But if we have to ban imports to grow the local sector, we should start with new clothes, that will have a better impact. But as I mentioned, I think the local sector has potential which is not being met even without any ban, introducing a ban will just create chaos.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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Governments banning Mitumba is nonsense.They should focus on the consumer and understand the consumer behavior. Why would a consumer go to mtumba buy a second hand pair of shoes which is more expensive than a new locally made shoe?There lies the answer.The consumer is looking for value for money.Good quality na ambayo ni ya camera.Not those uniforms sold in Eastlands. Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way From this response you get the why I advocate the banning of Mtumba. To grease the squeaky wheel. If mtumba exists because of the low end customer, them nakujua should develop or contract someone to develop a cheap garment. Hio haiwezekani? If mtumba exist because people love wearing clothes that have been worn by someone else, then Kenyans should provide the clothing. There are flea markets in the west too....not imported clothes tho. The stuff we get as mtumba is that which they could not sell to their market. Back in the days, there was a beba beba guy who collected clothes in exchange of plastic basins and buckets...that guy should be collecting nakujuas cloths that Othelo wore and selling them to swenani. Retain money circulating in our economy. To urgue that either people buy mitumbas because they are low end or they like clothes worn by others is simplistic. Why consumers choose what they choose isn't something that can be determined in general terms. Assuming the reasons are true; would the flea market operate in the manner you're prescribing? That disposable incomes are globally sourced, but locally spent leaving the local economy stronger? That's an impossibility! If anything the local economy would grow poorer with AID.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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PeterReborn wrote:Governments banning Mitumba is nonsense.They should focus on the consumer and understand the consumer behavior. Why would a consumer go to mtumba buy a second hand pair of shoes which is more expensive than a new locally made shoe?There lies the answer.The consumer is looking for value for money.Good quality na ambayo ni ya camera.Not those uniforms sold in Eastlands. http://www.theguardian.c...es-at-second-hand-stalls
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