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Ban on Mitumba Clothes
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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EAC recently announced that in 3 years all member states will move towards total ban on second hand clothes imports. This is in an attempt to revive the textile industry in the region. Some wag was wondering why ban mitumba clothes only while mitumba cars are clogging our roads. Mitumba cars sector, he said, contributes far less in employment when compared to mitumba clothes which are a source of livelihood for many households in the country
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Just read hata kama haupendi Alai:
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:EAC recently announced that in 3 years all member states will move towards total ban on second hand clothes imports. This is in an attempt to revive the textile industry in the region.
Some wag was wondering why ban mitumba clothes only while mitumba cars are clogging our roads. Mitumba cars sector, he said, contributes far less in employment when compared to mitumba clothes which are a source of livelihood for many households in the country
We can grow lots of cotton/silk worms and rear sheep thus create jobs in our farms. You can't grow cars. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. We were told to move from agricultural and industrial economy to service economy If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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This is the kind of topic I would want the intellectual heavyweights in wazua going at each other.
This I will watch from the sidelines.
Btw I love the bata example. Hadn't seen it that way.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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FRM2011 wrote:This is the kind of topic I would want the intellectual heavyweights in wazua going at each other.
This I will watch from the sidelines.
Btw I love the bata example. Hadn't seen it that way. Do you seriously believe bata does its research from 2nd hand shoes? And not shoes from its competitors out there? Kweli kuna shida. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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I support the ban on mitumba clothes. They are degrading and dehumanizing. If Zimbabwe has banned the clothes, so we can. To quote the zim finance minister: Quote:"I am told we are now even importing women's underwear in this country," he was quoted saying recently. "How does that happen? If you are a husband and you see your wife buying underwear from the flea market, you would have failed."
The minister added: "If I was your in-law, I would take my daughter and urge you to first put your house in order if you still want her back."
"Wearing used underwear is most dehumanising and no government worth its salt should allow its citizens to be abused to this extent.
"What nation have we become that knowingly subjects its people to humiliation and disease?
"It is inconceivable for a country to open its borders for the importation of used underwear - to allow our women to wear undergarments that other women in other countries have used and discarded." http://nehandaradio.com/...hand-clothes-and-shoes/
http://www.theguardian.c...tlaws-sale-used-knickers
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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As we ban mitumba, have we motioned mechanisms, structures and systems to exploit existing opportunities that will arise out of this action. Ama ni panganga tupu!!!!! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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This idea leaves so much to be desired that I doubt if it can ever work. Generally, it depends so much on distorting market forces and is more about coercing and dictating preferences, rates of consumption and social relationships in an impracticable manner.
To illustrate the point on social relationships; will there be a ban on clothes donations and other informal exchanges? If there's going to be a ban, then it will be very expensive and unpopular to enforce the ban. If there'll be no such ban then mitumbas will still dominate or at least compete in the markets.
AGOA isn't restricted to textiles, and governments shouldn't rush to centralized planning. If policies are designed to meet the needs of interest groups then these groups should make themselves competitive through innovation and intelligent branding.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Othelo wrote:As we ban mitumba, have we motioned mechanisms, structures and systems to exploit existing opportunities that will arise out of this action. Ama ni panganga tupu!!!!!
I look at this idea as a populist response by governments ...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Othelo wrote:As we ban mitumba, have we motioned mechanisms, structures and systems to exploit existing opportunities that will arise out of this action. Ama ni panganga tupu!!!!!
What can be done in 3 years
Rivatex gets Sh3bn India loan for purchase of new machinesKenya: Country On the Verge of Adopting GM Cotton, MaizeOnce the production of garments is in place what's left? Fundi? Kisumu gets Sh1.9 billion shoe factory"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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All these are white elephants if we do not address the business environment. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. Labour costs in Kenya are very low, in this economy where an MP earns close to 1M, there are watchmen and housegals earning less than 10K so the labor question is out. (Hey have I not seen you commenting on the thread about Kenyans earning 100K and above?) All the other variables are just that, variables can be changed. We are living in times when we are producing more power than we are consuming. The infrastructure question will be solved...if you ask me, we have better infrastructure than Cambodia one of the leaders in textile production. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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From where I sit, the recommendation shows the govt has seen the need to cut apparel imports and create jobs by reviving textile industries, and this is appositive sign.
The question that remains is what miracle the govt is going to do to overturn in 3 years a situation that has persisted for the last 20-30 yrs? Actually, I tend to think that Mitumba is not ‘evil’. You often hear that a large percentage of Kenyans live on less than a dollar, how will they afford non-mitumba clothes in 3 years?
Actually, the ban should be on new clothes, so we can manufacture these locally and sell to the rich and the middle class – who do not wear mitumba anyway. So you can see the decision to ban mitumba is very cheap and in fact very unlikely to materialise.
And no, they shouldn’t even ban new cloth imports within 3 years.
Rather, gradually increase production of cotton and raw materials locally, reduce cost of doing business, reduce cost of production and then gradually raise taxes on imported new clothing..It’s shocking how Govt with all machinery at disposal cannot think sober. Mitumba should and will stay for the foreseeable future
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. Labour costs in Kenya are very low, in this economy where an MP earns close to 1M, there are watchmen and housegals earning less than 10K so the labor question is out. (Hey have I not seen you commenting on the thread about Kenyans earning 100K and above?) All the other variables are just that, variables can be changed. We are living in times when we are producing more power than we are consuming. The infrastructure question will be solved...if you ask me, we have better infrastructure than Cambodia one of the leaders in textile production. You might think that a housegirl earning 7K is cheap but trust me it's not cheap.Housegirls in Ethiopia are paid $ 20 dollars by middle class and those who are remunerated well get Us $ 50. They leave those jobs for U$ 100 jobs in dubai per month.You should know that labour makes a huge component of pricing in agricultural and industrial products. I see you also forgot to mention that cambodia has some of the lowest wages in the world. You might think that those are variables that can be varied but those variables are very important since they determine the cost of living which is in turn used to negotiate for wages. In Ethiopia, a nationally recruited finance manager employed by a multinational earns US $ 2,500 while in Kenya a nationally recruited finance manager for the same multinational doesn't make anything less than US $5K. If we do not work on those petty issues, we will ban mitumba but products from Asia will still come in at a very cheap price. Why do you think most manafucturing companies in US are shipping their jobs to Asian countries? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. Labour costs in Kenya are very low, in this economy where an MP earns close to 1M, there are watchmen and housegals earning less than 10K so the labor question is out. (Hey have I not seen you commenting on the thread about Kenyans earning 100K and above?) All the other variables are just that, variables can be changed. We are living in times when we are producing more power than we are consuming. The infrastructure question will be solved...if you ask me, we have better infrastructure than Cambodia one of the leaders in textile production. You might think that a housegirl earning 7K is cheap but trust me it's not cheap.Housegirls in Ethiopia are paid $ 20 dollars by middle class and those who are remunerated well get Us $ 50. They leave those jobs for U$ 100 jobs in dubai per month.You should know that labour makes a huge component of pricing in agricultural and industrial products. I see you also forgot to mention that cambodia has some of the lowest wages in the world. You might think that those are variables that can be varied but those variables are very important since they determine the cost of living which is in turn used to negotiate for wages. In Ethiopia, a nationally recruited finance manager employed by a multinational earns US $ 2,500 while in Kenya a nationally recruited finance manager for the same multinational doesn't make anything less than US $5K. If we do not work on those petty issues, we will ban mitumba but products from Asia will still come in at a very cheap price. Why do you think most manafucturing companies in US are shipping their jobs to Asian countries? You seem to forget that Kenyans are still taking those $100 jobs in Dubai. The minimum wage in Cambodia is up to $140 from $100 in 2014 sembuse kenya? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. Labour costs in Kenya are very low, in this economy where an MP earns close to 1M, there are watchmen and housegals earning less than 10K so the labor question is out. (Hey have I not seen you commenting on the thread about Kenyans earning 100K and above?) All the other variables are just that, variables can be changed. We are living in times when we are producing more power than we are consuming. The infrastructure question will be solved...if you ask me, we have better infrastructure than Cambodia one of the leaders in textile production. You might think that a housegirl earning 7K is cheap but trust me it's not cheap.Housegirls in Ethiopia are paid $ 20 dollars by middle class and those who are remunerated well get Us $ 50. They leave those jobs for U$ 100 jobs in dubai per month.You should know that labour makes a huge component of pricing in agricultural and industrial products. I see you also forgot to mention that cambodia has some of the lowest wages in the world. You might think that those are variables that can be varied but those variables are very important since they determine the cost of living which is in turn used to negotiate for wages. In Ethiopia, a nationally recruited finance manager employed by a multinational earns US $ 2,500 while in Kenya a nationally recruited finance manager for the same multinational doesn't make anything less than US $5K. If we do not work on those petty issues, we will ban mitumba but products from Asia will still come in at a very cheap price. Why do you think most manafucturing companies in US are shipping their jobs to Asian countries? You seem to forget that Kenyans are still taking those $100 jobs in Dubai. The minimum wage in Cambodia is up to $140 from $100 in 2014 sembuse kenya? Do you know the same garment workers in EPZ here in Kenya make double that? while guards and cleaners make what the garment workers are making in Cambodia If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:Am seeing the going to sch for Alai has broadened his perspective. He's doing so much better than some Wazuans. The never seemed to understand that we cant even meet our AGOA quota because we dont produce enough raw material. And how that supply chain works. Kausha #356 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2013 5:26:58 PM wrote:On textiles we don't need any policy, every policy is in place and worse of all our AGOA quota is largely unexploited and left to India and pakistan textile producers to exploit. Leave mitumba out of this, you sound like Kirubi. Mitumba even costs more than those chinese clothes in the shops but people go and buy mitumba - ever heard of value for money. Simple example look at your budding footballer where does he purchase boots that he can afford? you know the answer, what has this got to do with policy...look at Bata, the italian turn around MD they heard figured mitumba was not the problem because people were buying more expensive second hand shoes and leaving old fashioned bata shoes costing less on the shelf. Once Bata addressed their problem of poor uptake of their products from this angle they ended up a serious success story. Infact Bata loves second hand shoes because they provide serious market reasearch on trends and size of potential markets for their products. And this one does not understand that Asian companies are maximizing on economies of scale to bring the cost of goods down. If we are already disgruntled by the cheap products from Asia, why should we not make our own? Mkeiyd #361 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2013 9:29:02 AM wrote:@murchr, Ever taken a look at those mutumba labels? Quite few have 'Made in US/UK/Italy/France etc. They read China, , , and then some South East Asian countries.
There's a reason why the first world is dressed by the Asian countries, with quality garments.
If we strive to make quality garments locally, the costs will outweigh the benefits.
The quality that Chinese export to US/UK/Canada is not the same that comes to Africa or consumed in China.
The surest way to go is AGOA, Americans have the purchasing power to buy quality products from Kenya which very few Kenyans can afford.
The issue of mitumba clothes is more complex than it is appreciated by any lobbyist. The real threat to Kenya's textile industry is the importation of cheap sub-standard products from China and South East Asia.
The sort of clothes that fade in two months time.The shirts, the women suits [i abhor them].
As it stands, the cheap brand new imports are the greatest threat to our textile industry. Atleast mtumba brings in punitive taxes to the gov't, that cannot be said about brand new cheap imports.
Mutumba is in no direct competition with "Made in Kenya" apparel.
If your walk into any shop on Biashara Street selling baby stuff, how many items can 1,000 bob buy? How many items can that get you in Gikomba?
Use them for 3 months [from Biz street and the other from Giks] and compare the quality.
Value for money.
Same as using local contractors to do shoody job on our roads in the name of local.
What is better? Value for money or local no matter the quality?
On the flip side,a country that struggles to feed itself, is it not wiser to grow food crops, rather than cotton?
Do we import Sugar? Rice? Maize? Eggs?
Do we have mitumba sugar? rice? maize? egg?
Why do we import?
Why are the imports cheaper?
How much cotton do we need to dress Kenya? 90,000 tons on average per year?
How many people will the textiles industry employ?
How much does an EPZ employee earn now?
How much does a mtumba retailer earn now?
Let's not bite every bait thrown our way, textile industry is NOT a strategic sector and push to kill mtumba AS THINGS STAND, will be detrimental. Economies of scales usually have a limit from when you start having diminishing returns. For us to have cheap products so many things will have to be considered e.g cost of labor(in Asia labor is very cheap while Kenya is one of the third world countries with high cost of labor), infrastructure which affects transportation costs, inputs(ERC and politicians will always want to exploit us on fuel pricing), taxation, cost of corruption through dishing out "free shareholding" to get your permit and licenses and kill your competitors. By the time the you have a finished product and you factor in all these costs, your product will never be cheap. Labour costs in Kenya are very low, in this economy where an MP earns close to 1M, there are watchmen and housegals earning less than 10K so the labor question is out. (Hey have I not seen you commenting on the thread about Kenyans earning 100K and above?) All the other variables are just that, variables can be changed. We are living in times when we are producing more power than we are consuming. The infrastructure question will be solved...if you ask me, we have better infrastructure than Cambodia one of the leaders in textile production. You might think that a housegirl earning 7K is cheap but trust me it's not cheap.Housegirls in Ethiopia are paid $ 20 dollars by middle class and those who are remunerated well get Us $ 50. They leave those jobs for U$ 100 jobs in dubai per month.You should know that labour makes a huge component of pricing in agricultural and industrial products. I see you also forgot to mention that cambodia has some of the lowest wages in the world. You might think that those are variables that can be varied but those variables are very important since they determine the cost of living which is in turn used to negotiate for wages. In Ethiopia, a nationally recruited finance manager employed by a multinational earns US $ 2,500 while in Kenya a nationally recruited finance manager for the same multinational doesn't make anything less than US $5K. If we do not work on those petty issues, we will ban mitumba but products from Asia will still come in at a very cheap price. Why do you think most manafucturing companies in US are shipping their jobs to Asian countries? You seem to forget that Kenyans are still taking those $100 jobs in Dubai. The minimum wage in Cambodia is up to $140 from $100 in 2014 sembuse kenya? Do you know the same garment workers in EPZ here in Kenya make double that? while guards and cleaners make what the garment workers are making in Cambodia Introduce me to one garment worker who earns 28 000PM  Quote:
Alltex EPZ Limited
GARMENT TECHNICIAN / SEWING SUPERVISOR
Job Location : Nairobi (Kenya) Experience : 1-5 Years Salary : 850 USD P. A
Job Description
Preparing sample for production line, preparing sewing lay - out, setting the targets for production line, introducing the style to the operators how to achieve given target with maintaining the required quality standards, maintaining the given production schedules.
Key Skill
Eligibility Criteria
Must have 5 to 7 years experience in similar capacity. Good experience in textile and textile industry. Good communication and leadership skill. Computer Preferred.
Informations:
Salary : 850 USD ( Per Annum )
Industry : Garment/Apparels
Functional / Role : Supervisor
Gender Prefrence : Any
Position : 3
Company Profile
Alltex EPZ Limited, Nairobi, Kenya
Alltex epz is one of the leading garments exporter in Kenya under the initiative of AGOA , with the production capacity of over 500,000 gmts per month to USA market, with the total work force of 1850 employees
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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