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Cytonn Investments
tony stark
#1281 Posted : Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:35:17 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 928
Which bRITAM is this you are talking about. The same britam whose Britam Wealth Management Fund LLP just wrote of 5 billion in loses.
This "pain" is being felt by everyone in different ways. Some just had it written off in their socks and they had no choice of wait for recovery.

muganda wrote:
tony stark wrote:
muganda wrote:
Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned.


But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund.

The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract.

There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property.

If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time.

Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise.



I repeat ... Pain caused needs to be shared
Britam knew this hence the capitulation by Dande when he was near police custoday. The title deeds reappeared.

Collective Investment Schemes appoint custodians and licensed fund managers. If CMA or investors were inviting bids from competing fund managers to takeover the defaulting schemes, money would begin to reappear.

Finally, it is dishonest for Cytonn to fail in sale of built 'underlying assets' while foisting them on trapped 'noisemakers' at inflated prices - it reeks of Snake Oiler behaviour Shame on you


rwitre
#1282 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 12:34:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/8/2018
Posts: 506
Location: Nairobi
The back and forth on this thread Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Cytonn HYS clients: You invested in a high risk fund that pumped capital into real estate, and the market is now largely illiquid
(Talk to every other real estate developer and property auctioneer and see how "well" they are fairing)

Cytonn bashers: Cherry picking on one firm and saying the sky is falling since one of its products is faltering? Must be nice running your lucrative business.

Legal: CMA and Cytonn court debacles. CMA hands are largely tied because technically Cytonn is following its contract terms.

PR: Cytonn aggressively pushed HYS, and overlaying terms with the regulated Cytonn HYF (High Yield Fund) could easily mislead investors.

Investors: Every investment has its risks. Do your research before jumping in. There's a reason why riskier funds come with higher rates.
Even countries can default on sovereign debt.

My advice: If you have money in HYS, either write it off, or wait it out.
I hear there is an option to top up and buy one of the properties for the anxious and moneyed.


My 2 cents
#1283 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 1:37:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 637
Only one of the positions is correct. Cytonn is a dud or it isn't. Only time will tell. But the odds favour one side. Most us know which side is likely correct.
muganda
#1284 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 3:01:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,877
rwitre wrote:
The back and forth on this thread Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

My advice: If you have money in HYS, either write it off, or wait it out.
I hear there is an option to top up and buy one of the properties for the anxious and moneyed.


My advice: Enough with everyone playing defense. CMA courtesy of Treasury has donned on new powers to fight fraud in CIS https://www.businessdail...raud-in-schemes-3534742

Investors, with CMA help, need to fire Cytonn as fund manager - period!

Pain caused needs to be shared
poundfoolish
#1285 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 5:52:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,456
Location: Nairobi
Mister.. If you are below 40 years, please allow me to say this..
You are very wise beyond your years..

I am also tempted to say, The other group has nothing in between their ears... or just plain malicious and ignorant.


rwitre wrote:
The back and forth on this thread Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Cytonn HYS clients: You invested in a high risk fund that pumped capital into real estate, and the market is now largely illiquid
(Talk to every other real estate developer and property auctioneer and see how "well" they are fairing)

Cytonn bashers: Cherry picking on one firm and saying the sky is falling since one of its products is faltering? Must be nice running your lucrative business.

Legal: CMA and Cytonn court debacles. CMA hands are largely tied because technically Cytonn is following its contract terms.

PR: Cytonn aggressively pushed HYS, and overlaying terms with the regulated Cytonn HYF (High Yield Fund) could easily mislead investors.

Investors: Every investment has its risks. Do your research before jumping in. There's a reason why riskier funds come with higher rates.
Even countries can default on sovereign debt.

My advice: If you have money in HYS, either write it off, or wait it out.
I hear there is an option to top up and buy one of the properties for the anxious and moneyed.



poundfoolish
#1286 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 5:57:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,456
Location: Nairobi
almost 10B... not 5B and it is not like the hole has stopped growing.
Unlike Cytonn that has taken the bold move to halt any more bleeding in the Real Estate venture,which it owns by the way.. other fund managers, whi have invested in other Real Estate developers, through their unreglulated products are relying on their other businesses lines to fill the gaps.

People will know they dont know.


tony stark wrote:
Which bRITAM is this you are talking about. The same britam whose Britam Wealth Management Fund LLP just wrote of 5 billion in loses.
This "pain" is being felt by everyone in different ways. Some just had it written off in their socks and they had no choice of wait for recovery.

muganda wrote:
tony stark wrote:
muganda wrote:
Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned.


But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund.

The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract.

There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property.

If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time.

Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise.



I repeat ... Pain caused needs to be shared
Britam knew this hence the capitulation by Dande when he was near police custoday. The title deeds reappeared.

Collective Investment Schemes appoint custodians and licensed fund managers. If CMA or investors were inviting bids from competing fund managers to takeover the defaulting schemes, money would begin to reappear.

Finally, it is dishonest for Cytonn to fail in sale of built 'underlying assets' while foisting them on trapped 'noisemakers' at inflated prices - it reeks of Snake Oiler behaviour Shame on you



My 2 cents
#1287 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 6:54:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 637
Those of you in this forum who are not in Cytonn, just be keenly aware that those that are already inside Cytonn will want to sell it to you aggresively, it is the only way they stand a chance to get out themselves. Don't fall for it.
VituVingiSana
#1288 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:38:46 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,594
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Cytonn was like a religion, I tried to talk a friend out of it 4 years ago and did not make any progress. You have got to understand that those who have already invested need for the scheme to keep going for them to stand a good chance of getting out. Cytonn is only as good as more 'investors' join, if that stops everyone who is already in loses. Thats why the animosity towards paulkimani. He was jeopardising some peoples investment in Cytonn.


Nonsense!!!
Cytonn needs to keep selling houses to keep going and giving returns.
Do you know how the other property developers are fairing?
Centum Real Estate - the real estate arm of Centum - was profitable in 2020 (COVID) and they said they kept selling during COVID and also collected money. We now await the 1H22 results in 3 months time.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1289 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:45:46 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,594
Location: Nairobi
tony stark wrote:
muganda wrote:
Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned.


But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund.

The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract.

There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property.

If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time.

Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise.


Some Wazuans say even though the Alma development does look good the price for the Alma units is quite high vs comparable units in the area.
I agree that for some it may make more sense to take the units regardless of the pricing but for others who have to top-up a large enough sum, it doesn't make sense.

The real test is whether non-Cytonnaires are buying units. They have no money stuck in Cytonn so they would be unbiased and looking for value.

BTW, how does it work with such developments where there are multiple parties on the selling side? Will the banks give up title to an apartment they have a charge on if they don't get the cash?
E.g. If I have 10mn in CHYS and Cytonn agrees to sell me a unit for 10mn, how does the bank/lender benefit?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1290 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:47:19 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,594
Location: Nairobi
mv_ufanisi wrote:
tony stark wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
“Chema chajiuza, kibaya chajitembeza – A good thing sells, a bad thing advertises.”

An old age adage.The adverstising was very aggressive. Selling dreams, smokes and mirrors.


Like Coca Cola, Safaricom, Equity and so on and so forth?



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Poundfoolish people don't realize they are pawns in the rule of 7 for marketing. But I agree with my 2 cents in that if he wasn't being convinced they the cytonn ads then they probably need to change their marketing strategy because it didn't seem to land with My2 cents. You know My 2 cents is the most important customer Cytonn can have!


haha, Cytonn is NO Coca Cola, Safaricom, Equity and so on and so forth.

and a Cytonnaire is No millionaire or billionaire or trillionaire.

a Cytonnaire is a person who can't trace their money after expecting 18% interest rates.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly You are not a nice person! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1291 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:49:41 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,594
Location: Nairobi
My 2 cents wrote:
I understand the need for Cytonnaires to hang onto every thread of hope no matter how small. The realistic ones will chalk their investment to a very expensive life lesson and move on. Even Madoff had some'underlying assets'. The problem is that Cytonn's liabilities are MUCH LARGER than the so called underlying assets.

Like KQ
*And my ARM Sad which I provisioned long before it was dismembered. It saves one a lot of heartache even though inside you want a different result.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#1292 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:51:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,001
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
My 2 cents wrote:
Those of you in this forum who are not in Cytonn, just be keenly aware that those that are already inside Cytonn will want to sell it to you aggresively, it is the only way they stand a chance to get out themselves. Don't fall for it.


People who choose to invest in real estate or in investments with real estate as underlying assets must learn to take a long term view. Infact 10-15 years to get a return. Cytonnaires must dig in for at least 5 more years to recover their on investments.
Life is short. Live passionately.
paulkimani
#1293 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2021 6:12:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 194
https://twitter.com/Cyto...434040171654270978?s=20

“Low risk fund”

HAHAHAHAHA how are they still advertising and luring in unsuspecting individuals. “LOW RISK” HAHAHA
My 2 cents
#1294 Posted : Saturday, September 04, 2021 9:51:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 637
Low risk with high returns? In finance that is called a myth.
poundfoolish
#1295 Posted : Monday, September 06, 2021 11:46:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,456
Location: Nairobi

VituVingiSana wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Cytonn was like a religion, I tried to talk a friend out of it 4 years ago and did not make any progress. You have got to understand that those who have already invested need for the scheme to keep going for them to stand a good chance of getting out. Cytonn is only as good as more 'investors' join, if that stops everyone who is already in loses. Thats why the animosity towards paulkimani. He was jeopardising some peoples investment in Cytonn.


Nonsense!!!
Cytonn needs to keep selling houses to keep going and giving returns.
Do you know how the other property developers are fairing?
Centum Real Estate - the real estate arm of Centum - was profitable in 2020 (COVID) and they said they kept selling during COVID and also collected money. We now await the 1H22 results in 3 months time.


Iknow you will swallow that because in the blue section you are a centum believer.
But I will leave you to your sources and beliefs..

but as homework, Go ask which firms had lined up to buy Cytonn Real Estate.. and Why?
muganda
#1296 Posted : Monday, September 06, 2021 12:18:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,877
My 2 cents wrote:
Low risk with high returns? In finance that is called a myth.


How long before this message disappears from the archive? And the gentleman disappears from the board? Not talking

sparkly
#1297 Posted : Monday, September 06, 2021 1:11:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,001
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
paulkimani wrote:
https://twitter.com/CytonnInvest/status/1434040171654270978?s=20

“Low risk fund”

HAHAHAHAHA how are they still advertising and luring in unsuspecting individuals. “LOW RISK” HAHAHA


I don't think you understand what Money Market Fund is and investment risks associated with Money Market Fund.
Life is short. Live passionately.
poundfoolish
#1298 Posted : Tuesday, September 07, 2021 8:47:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,456
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
https://twitter.com/CytonnInvest/status/1434040171654270978?s=20

“Low risk fund”

HAHAHAHAHA how are they still advertising and luring in unsuspecting individuals. “LOW RISK” HAHAHA


I don't think you understand what Money Market Fund is and investment risks associated with Money Market Fund.


Why bother..

I have mentioned hear before, the malicious mongers cant tell the Cytonn Products even if you slapped them with it. The intent is to scare away investors and hopefully force Cytonn to close down.
My 2 cents
#1299 Posted : Tuesday, September 07, 2021 5:00:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 637
For those that think MM funds equate to zero risk, please google Amana Capital.
My 2 cents
#1300 Posted : Tuesday, September 07, 2021 5:02:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 637
Cytonn's troubles are directly attributable to the actions and out-sized risk appetite of its founders.
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