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Cytonn Investments
Ebenyo
#1181 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 8:26:17 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2016
Posts: 1,996
Location: Kitale
CMA should help investors who have lost their money.
Towards the goal of financial freedom
winmak
#1182 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 8:44:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/1/2007
Posts: 537
Location: Nakuru
Ebenyo wrote:
CMA should help investors who have lost their money.


People have lost money even in regulated schemes....

Hapa sioni kitu.... Let them accept and move on
For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases ~ WB
quicksand
#1183 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 9:07:50 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
CMA might not make everyone whole but fraudsters should not be walking free.
Queen
#1184 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 10:22:39 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 561
Location: Britain
Ebenyo wrote:
CMA should help investors who have lost their money.


Should they also help those seasoned Wazuans who have made a career by insulting anybody who dared question this Ponzi Scheme?

The four Cytonn musketeers left Britam under a cloud and people still went ahead to entrust them with their hard -earned money. C.r.o.o.k.s.
poundfoolish
#1185 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 12:45:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Yesterday your team sent a very convincing lass who captured our attention.
Problem is, she, like many people who pretend to be all urbane, smart and savvy did not even know which product she had signed up for.
If she was Caucasian.. I tell you for a fact, she would have blonde hair.

Sadly she accused CHYF of continuing to advertise while they were not paying up. CHYF is very regulated by CMA (and they, CMA, stated so in their bogus letter that they did not even sign).

Now if Cytonn was not meeting its obligations to clients on CHYF, which is CMA regulated, and all the bile between the two.

Do you Paul Kimani think CMA would have let Cytonn go free?
Do you think Cytonn CEO would have dared attack CMA CEO if they were doing something wrong with CHYF?

On another note. CHYS, a private investment placement has 6,000 investors who pumped in 14B. That is an average of 2.5M per person.
Now Ask your self, with the 80/20 pareto rule. How many of those have a bigger stake in CHYF and how many of the 20% controlling 80% of the fund have sued or made noise on social media?

You had changed tact to appealing to emotions now I see the attack is people have lost money. Hasn't Cytonn reiterated that liquidity is the issue and everybody is in the same boat. Did you ever see Gakuo offering people an underlying asset like Cytonn is? Or Suraya.. or the many other real Ponzi schemes that we only hear of after they go burst and directors disappear?

paulkimani wrote:
Out of all the hate I’ve received in this forum, this comment always stuck with me. Are we as Kenyans so desensitised we can’t admit that our peers are suffering really badly to the point of poverty because of this company?

Please read the letter below. This lovely lady who invested and trusted Cytonn has now:
1. lost her job
2. is unable to pay rent
3. has no money or insurance for medical assistance
4. has been unable to pay school fees and as a result her children and not getting an education
5. her mental health has been affected badly
6. has no income as a result of job loss and her savings are tied up with a scam. She is struggling to even put a meal on the table. She is on the brink of homelessness.

As an investment company, Cytonn had a duty of care to its clients which it has failed at miserably.

LETTER LINK BELOW:

https://twitter.com/Caro...402850684098260996?s=20

poundfoolish wrote:
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Which stage of mourning is this dear Wazuans...?

Or rather what stage of a congame is this, when a conman tries to play with emotions when caught..


paulkimani wrote:
When I’m watching a minimum of ten Scamtonn investors message me every week, with stories of how their kids had to drop out of school because they could not afford the fees, or how their families are surviving on one meal a day and even that one meal is trying to be spread out... when I’m listening to stories about how they’re trying to get extra odd jobs just be to able to keep a roof over their heads - all because Scamtonn is withholding the investors money that was due to them months or a year ago now - all because of a stupid biased contract the investors did not read because Cytonn KNEW they had not completed their education and specifically targeted those groups - yes, the entire company is a Ponzi. The Scamtonn four knew exactly who they were targeting - the poor and vulnerable and they successful did that. They will get away with it, they will be hiding millions and millions in their pockets while their investors suffer for generations to come, because of four greedy individuals in 2015 who made the choice to scam the innocent investors who were just trying to pay to educate their kids for a better future.



poundfoolish
#1186 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 12:59:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Story Story....

Tell Us!!!

essyk wrote:
Waaa! Kai!!Pray Pray
This is the MOST embarrassing and painful thread in the history of wazua.ok after one that I know.Laughing out loudly
I came here because abt 2 months ago a financial consultant gave me an inside story on these fellows. He actually called them Ponzi.So I came, read and went away because wazuans know it all.Laughing out loudly where does one even start.
There's another one too.. a ponzi but whee! This is battle for one PK
So Paul you fought a good battle.
You have been vindicated.

Moving foward, just buy a cow uwe unakunywa milk daily than some putting money in some ponzi masquerading as 'investment schemes'






Or forever join the queue of fear mongers behind PaulKimani
Rollout
#1187 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 1:22:06 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
poundfoolish wrote:
Story Story....

Tell Us!!!

essyk wrote:
Waaa! Kai!!Pray Pray
This is the MOST embarrassing and painful thread in the history of wazua.ok after one that I know.Laughing out loudly
I came here because abt 2 months ago a financial consultant gave me an inside story on these fellows. He actually called them Ponzi.So I came, read and went away because wazuans know it all.Laughing out loudly where does one even start.
There's another one too.. a ponzi but whee! This is battle for one PK
So Paul you fought a good battle.
You have been vindicated.

Moving foward, just buy a cow uwe unakunywa milk daily than some putting money in some ponzi masquerading as 'investment schemes'


Do you listen to yourself? @poundfoolish



Or forever join the queue of fear mongers behind PaulKimani

paulkimani
#1188 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 1:28:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/19/2016
Posts: 204
A kind reminder to all the new lurkers now that the news has broken in the mainstream media, that Cytonn is indeed a scam, a ponzi. 6 years too late, but better late than never.

The four who started Cytonn were:
Edwin Dande
Patricia Wanjama
Shiv Arora
Elizabeth Nkuku

Another kind reminder, they were the brains behind conning Kenyans of their lives.

Another kind reminder, Superior Homes was bought by Cytonn and Shiv Arora is now their CEO. Please connect the dots yourselves.

To those who wish to contact me,
Let me know
sparkly
#1189 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 5:19:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
paulkimani wrote:
A kind reminder to all the new lurkers now that the news has broken in the mainstream media, that Cytonn is indeed a scam, a ponzi. 6 years too late, but better late than never.

The four who started Cytonn were:
Edwin Dande
Patricia Wanjama
Shiv Arora
Elizabeth Nkuku

Another kind reminder, they were the brains behind conning Kenyans of their lives.

Another kind reminder, Superior Homes was bought by Cytonn and Shiv Arora is now their CEO. Please connect the dots yourselves.

To those who wish to contact me,
Let me know


Ata wewe ni mjinga. It can't be a ponzi if they have real estate projects. Bad investment yes, ponzi no.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Rollout
#1190 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2021 5:29:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
A kind reminder to all the new lurkers now that the news has broken in the mainstream media, that Cytonn is indeed a scam, a ponzi. 6 years too late, but better late than never.

The four who started Cytonn were:
Edwin Dande
Patricia Wanjama
Shiv Arora
Elizabeth Nkuku

Another kind reminder, they were the brains behind conning Kenyans of their lives.

Another kind reminder, Superior Homes was bought by Cytonn and Shiv Arora is now their CEO. Please connect the dots yourselves.

To those who wish to contact me,
Let me know


Ata wewe ni mjinga. It can't be a ponzi if they have real estate projects. Bad investment yes, ponzi no.


Majority of Ponzi don't really start as Ponzi but they turn Ponzi once founders finds out that the business model doesn't work but due to some reasons e.g. egos, agency problem or escalation bias, they start misleading investors in order to continue sustaining the story and collecting more capital, sometimes key principals don't even know they are in a Ponzi scheme.

In fact, the founders most of the time keep collecting more capital in hope of turning around and making the concept legitimate. I don't think Cytonn guys started this with intentions of defrauding their investors but once they start misleading them in order to rope them in then that's when it turn Ponzi

poundfoolish
#1191 Posted : Saturday, June 19, 2021 2:42:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Cytonn has never been shy to face its faceless accusers in the mainstream.
If anything, back in the initial days, your funders threatened to withdraw adverts from media houses that gave Cytonn a platform.

Let it go big. I hope you shall be on the same media giving your evidence and insights.

paulkimani wrote:
A kind reminder to all the new lurkers now that the news has broken in the mainstream media, that Cytonn is indeed a scam, a ponzi. 6 years too late, but better late than never.

The four who started Cytonn were:
Edwin Dande
Patricia Wanjama
Shiv Arora
Elizabeth Nkuku

Another kind reminder, they were the brains behind conning Kenyans of their lives.

Another kind reminder, Superior Homes was bought by Cytonn and Shiv Arora is now their CEO. Please connect the dots yourselves.

To those who wish to contact me,
Let me know

VituVingiSana
#1192 Posted : Saturday, June 19, 2021 6:46:30 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
Ebenyo wrote:
CMA should help investors who have lost their money.

Guys like @paulkimani have been warning people for years.
How old is this thread?

How can CMA help anyway unless money was pilfered and can be traced?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1193 Posted : Saturday, June 19, 2021 6:56:28 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
As I eat my popcorn let's see the lay of the land.

@paulkimani seems to have been vindicated but @poundfoolish, @tonystark and @sparkly are putting up a fight.

I agree that Cytonn didn't start out as a Ponzi scheme but some unlucky events eg fiscal indiscipline of GoK and COVID19 has played a huge role in slowing down sales and construction of the real estate projects.

Good luck to the investors in CHYS. Perhaps over time they will recover their principal but the 14-20% interest they were promised may be a bridge too far.

Another option is to take the completed apartments in lieu of the cash. Yes, it might involve a haircut but at least you have an asset in hand you can rent out.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#1194 Posted : Saturday, June 19, 2021 11:42:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
Rollout wrote:
sparkly wrote:
paulkimani wrote:
A kind reminder to all the new lurkers now that the news has broken in the mainstream media, that Cytonn is indeed a scam, a ponzi. 6 years too late, but better late than never.

The four who started Cytonn were:
Edwin Dande
Patricia Wanjama
Shiv Arora
Elizabeth Nkuku

Another kind reminder, they were the brains behind conning Kenyans of their lives.

Another kind reminder, Superior Homes was bought by Cytonn and Shiv Arora is now their CEO. Please connect the dots yourselves.

To those who wish to contact me,
Let me know


Ata wewe ni mjinga. It can't be a ponzi if they have real estate projects. Bad investment yes, ponzi no.


Majority of Ponzi don't really start as Ponzi but they turn Ponzi once founders finds out that the business model doesn't work but due to some reasons e.g. egos, agency problem or escalation bias, they start misleading investors in order to continue sustaining the story and collecting more capital, sometimes key principals don't even know they are in a Ponzi scheme.

In fact, the founders most of the time keep collecting more capital in hope of turning around and making the concept legitimate. I don't think Cytonn guys started this with intentions of defrauding their investors but once they start misleading them in order to rope them in then that's when it turn Ponzi




I think someone who worked for Lehman brothers would know they are running a Ponzi
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
maka
#1195 Posted : Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:05:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
As I eat my popcorn let's see the lay of the land.

@paulkimani seems to have been vindicated but @poundfoolish, @tonystark and @sparkly are putting up a fight.

I agree that Cytonn didn't start out as a Ponzi scheme but some unlucky events eg fiscal indiscipline of GoK and COVID19 has played a huge role in slowing down sales and construction of the real estate projects.

Good luck to the investors in CHYS. Perhaps over time they will recover their principal but the 14-20% interest they were promised may be a bridge too far.

Another option is to take the completed apartments in lieu of the cash. Yes, it might involve a haircut but at least you have an asset in hand you can rent out.



This won't be resolved anytime soon.... Poleni sana...This life is brutal.
possunt quia posse videntur
poundfoolish
#1196 Posted : Sunday, June 20, 2021 2:35:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi

You have come round nicely. acknowledging Cytonn are not a Ponzi or into any wrong business. Just the normal ups and downs of external forces.

You also pamper Paul instead of telling him the damn truth. He is a scare monger.

Finally. It is very common knowledge that most, if not all Fund managers have private investment products, all legal but not regulated by CMA.
Some have made billions of losses.... But you never hear CMA making statements about them. WHY???



VituVingiSana wrote:
As I eat my popcorn let's see the lay of the land.

@paulkimani seems to have been vindicated but @poundfoolish, @tonystark and @sparkly are putting up a fight.

I agree that Cytonn didn't start out as a Ponzi scheme but some unlucky events eg fiscal indiscipline of GoK and COVID19 has played a huge role in slowing down sales and construction of the real estate projects.

Good luck to the investors in CHYS. Perhaps over time they will recover their principal but the 14-20% interest they were promised may be a bridge too far.

Another option is to take the completed apartments in lieu of the cash. Yes, it might involve a haircut but at least you have an asset in hand you can rent out.

maka
#1197 Posted : Monday, June 21, 2021 6:52:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:

You have come round nicely. acknowledging Cytonn are not a Ponzi or into any wrong business. Just the normal ups and downs of external forces.

You also pamper Paul instead of telling him the damn truth. He is a scare monger.

Finally. It is very common knowledge that most, if not all Fund managers have private investment products, all legal but not regulated by CMA.
Some have made billions of losses.... But you never hear CMA making statements about them. WHY???



VituVingiSana wrote:
As I eat my popcorn let's see the lay of the land.

@paulkimani seems to have been vindicated but @poundfoolish, @tonystark and @sparkly are putting up a fight.

I agree that Cytonn didn't start out as a Ponzi scheme but some unlucky events eg fiscal indiscipline of GoK and COVID19 has played a huge role in slowing down sales and construction of the real estate projects.

Good luck to the investors in CHYS. Perhaps over time they will recover their principal but the 14-20% interest they were promised may be a bridge too far.

Another option is to take the completed apartments in lieu of the cash. Yes, it might involve a haircut but at least you have an asset in hand you can rent out.




VVS was being very polite...🙂
possunt quia posse videntur
quicksand
#1198 Posted : Monday, June 21, 2021 8:52:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
As I eat my popcorn let's see the lay of the land.

@paulkimani seems to have been vindicated but @poundfoolish, @tonystark and @sparkly are putting up a fight.

I agree that Cytonn didn't start out as a Ponzi scheme but some unlucky events eg fiscal indiscipline of GoK and COVID19 has played a huge role in slowing down sales and construction of the real estate projects.

Good luck to the investors in CHYS. Perhaps over time they will recover their principal but the 14-20% interest they were promised may be a bridge too far.

Another option is to take the completed apartments in lieu of the cash. Yes, it might involve a haircut but at least you have an asset in hand you can rent out.


Take? Hehehe. I am afraid its not that simple (from what I have heard). The apartments are valued north of 10 million, and to convert, you have to top up the difference.
So lets say you gave Cytonn 2 million and you are in dire straits already, where are you supposed to get the money to top up?
VituVingiSana
#1199 Posted : Monday, June 21, 2021 10:33:37 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:

You have come round nicely. acknowledging Cytonn are not a Ponzi or into any wrong business. Just the normal ups and downs of external forces.

You also pamper Paul instead of telling him the damn truth. He is a scare monger.

Finally. It is very common knowledge that most, if not all Fund managers have private investment products, all legal but not regulated by CMA.
Some have made billions of losses.... But you never hear CMA making statements about them. WHY???



VituVingiSana wrote:
As I eat my popcorn let's see the lay of the land.

@paulkimani seems to have been vindicated but @poundfoolish, @tonystark and @sparkly are putting up a fight.

I agree that Cytonn didn't start out as a Ponzi scheme but some unlucky events eg fiscal indiscipline of GoK and COVID19 has played a huge role in slowing down sales and construction of the real estate projects.

Good luck to the investors in CHYS. Perhaps over time they will recover their principal but the 14-20% interest they were promised may be a bridge too far.

Another option is to take the completed apartments in lieu of the cash. Yes, it might involve a haircut but at least you have an asset in hand you can rent out.

Don't put words in my mouth which is already full of popcorn.

I don't think I ever called Cytonn a "Ponzi scheme" but it was rather ambitious. Too much too soon.

I saw that with ARM where Paunrana took on too much debt and ARM got wiped out in a combination of PEV2008, GFC and Pombe. Had it succeeded, it would have been a huge success and become top 3 in EAC but it did not.
I got caught up in it too.

And, of course, KQ with Project Mawingu.

@paulkimani, for better or worse, seems to be right on his call re: Cytonn.

BUT I am rooting for the investors to come out even, if not ahead.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1200 Posted : Monday, June 21, 2021 10:47:09 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
quicksand wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
As I eat my popcorn let's see the lay of the land.

@paulkimani seems to have been vindicated but @poundfoolish, @tonystark and @sparkly are putting up a fight.

I agree that Cytonn didn't start out as a Ponzi scheme but some unlucky events eg fiscal indiscipline of GoK and COVID19 has played a huge role in slowing down sales and construction of the real estate projects.

Good luck to the investors in CHYS. Perhaps over time they will recover their principal but the 14-20% interest they were promised may be a bridge too far.

Another option is to take the completed apartments in lieu of the cash. Yes, it might involve a haircut but at least you have an asset in hand you can rent out.


Take? Hehehe. I am afraid its not that simple (from what I have heard). The apartments are valued north of 10 million, and to convert, you have to top up the difference.
So lets say you gave Cytonn 2 million and you are in dire straits already, where are you supposed to get the money to top up?
No idea about this. You do have a point though so perhaps those with 10mn in CHYS can take a unit. Or 2 people with 5mn each can do so.

Better to leave with a unit than be stuck in the hamster wheel for another 2-3 years if you are lucky.

BTW, I passed by Two Rivers and they have equipment/works on the "Mizizi" site which is affordable housing. The pricing (check Centum's website) is competitive with Ruaka but within Two Rivers with the amenities. So sales of Alma, etc is going to face competition.

Back to my popcorn!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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