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The Cancer Menace
Rank: Member Joined: 12/7/2010 Posts: 520 Location: Epicentre - Ngamia 1
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essyk wrote:Forester wrote:Forester wrote:Is Cancer hereditary? My grand dad currently has both colon and prostate cancer. It pains me to see him waste away like that despite going for regular chemo and being treated by one of the best Oncologist in the country. My father, had Multiple Myeloma but through treatment in India and God's grace, pulled through and is back on his feet again and regained his earlier frame - review after 5 years. My dad's brother also had to go for a pet scan though i'm not privy to the results.  2.5 Years on... My grand dad never made it. My dad is alive and kicking after the bone marrow transplant and chemo 5 years after first diagnosis. Such a horrible experience but grateful to God. eh. let me ask you.Would you for screening if asked to? Why not? Would gladly go for screening. Am past the point of fearing death. This world is not my home. Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs - Farrah Gray.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/5/2011 Posts: 1,059
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There is another thing that we Kenyans are still doing, and it's ignoring symptoms and refusing or avoiding screenings or tests, I am pushing my dad to have a prostate test but he has refused kabisa, atleast they have told us there is now a non invasive prostate test and it's quite cheap, I hope the test come out negative, but we need to push our family and friends to take tests if they can, most say oh i have malaria, or typhoid etc, they rush to the chemist first and only visit a clinic when things get worse, only about 2% of kenyans with cancer got diagnosed in early stages, the rest only know when it's too late and most never live a month after knowing. Another important thing is these GoK hospitals we hate, trust me there is a better chance of you being being diagnosed in a GoK hospital than it is at AghaKhan cancer center, the earlier provincial general hospitals are well equipped but the lines are long. To Each His Own
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,503 Location: Uganda
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make cancer screening mandatory in all hospitals .I think they serreptitiously do it for HIV.nywele gumu unless you use reasonable force hawezi kufanya voluntarily punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,503 Location: Uganda
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Kusadikika wrote:murchr wrote:After I heard of Bob's death, I decided to look into AML, its causes risks etc...and of interest I found this. Quote:Being exposed to certain chemicals
The risk of AML is increased if you have been exposed to certain chemicals.
For example, long-term exposure to benzene is a risk factor for AML. Benzene is a solvent used in the rubber industry, oil refineries, chemical plants, shoe manufacturing, and gasoline-related industries, and is also found in cigarette smoke, gasoline and motor vehicle exhaust, and some glues, cleaning products, detergents, art supplies, and paints.
Some studies have linked AML risk to heavy workplace exposure to formaldehyde, but this link has not been seen in some other studies. The biggest issue with cancer seems to be environmental pollution . The biggest risk factor for cancer is living. If you are alive you risk getting cancer. If you think about it biologically human beings are an aberration of nature. Look at all other forms of animal life, none of them live into old age like humans in as large numbers. Out of the number of antelopes that are born a significant number die young due to predators. They are always on the lookout in order to survive and as soon as they weaken a bit from injury or age they are again taken care of by predators. Even the animals that are predators they cannot live long in the wild past their prime. Once they slow down they become prey. Old lions are eaten by hyenas, old hyenas are eaten by jackals, old jackals are eaten by lions etc Young strong males often kill or drive off weaker older males etc. Nature has no place for declining strength. So nature has no use for human beings past the age of 35 -40. But human beings being the cunning type that they are they invented things like respect for elders and religion and laws and governments to prevent young strong people from killing old useless people. Then they invented medicine and hospitals that allowed weak people who were supposed to die in childhood to grow and reproduce even weaker people who suffer from more and more diseases. Nature also has bacteria and viruses and predators that prevented any one species from increasing too much. Human beings invented medicine and peace and agriculture and reproduced like crazy. Nature is a little confused but remember nature has been around for billions of years so it has a way of resetting and I think cancer is just one of its solutions. It is natures way of culling the herd. you mean a 40yr old young energetic man belongs to the fossils.ongezea kidogo you will make many wazuans especially those who have been around since 2009 feel useless. the good thing is that in the long run we shall all be dead. live your life right with your maker so that when the day comes you have fewer questions to answer punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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essyk wrote:
Today we are burying a neighbour in shags who died of stomach ca. This is someone who ate and drank from her Farm.Nothing processed.
Just seen Esther wahome's loving tribute to her dad.He succumbed to it on saturday.
I think someone is slowly killing us.It's no longer a city or lifestyle disease.It's deliberate.
Any one can get cancer. Even in the west where they have strict food, environment and occupational safety standards people are still getting cancer. Infact I read somewhere that in the west 1 in 2 people will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetime. <<RINK>>. I think that this cancer has been with us for ages its only that recently it has been accurately named/defined and publicized. In my village huko ushago I know people who have died of prostrate cancer, throat cancer, breast cancer etc. Maybe in the old days my ancestors whould have said ni kurogwa or macho mbaya or uganga. Note that cancer is a name given to 100 + types of diseases/disorders where normal cells go berserk and multiply abnormally. What is saddening and frustrating is that doctors DO NOT KNOW what causes cancers <<RINK>>. All they know is that there are some risk factors that may increase, but not eliminate, chances get the disease eg smoking increases your chance of getting lung cancer but non smokers still get lung cancer while some smokers never get cancer <<RINK>>. So when someone gets any of the cancers we can only say its bahati mbaya. Also cancer has been called the great imitator in that the symptoms can mask other diseases. So when you feel fatigued (like Bob Collymore) the doctor could think its malaria, or when you have abdominal problems (like Ken Okoth) the doc could think its ulcers etc. So will our hospitals (and those abroad) be able to test all patients who visit a doctor (for any ailment) for cancer so as to rule it out or catch it early?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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newfarer wrote:Kusadikika wrote:murchr wrote:After I heard of Bob's death, I decided to look into AML, its causes risks etc...and of interest I found this. Quote:Being exposed to certain chemicals
The risk of AML is increased if you have been exposed to certain chemicals.
For example, long-term exposure to benzene is a risk factor for AML. Benzene is a solvent used in the rubber industry, oil refineries, chemical plants, shoe manufacturing, and gasoline-related industries, and is also found in cigarette smoke, gasoline and motor vehicle exhaust, and some glues, cleaning products, detergents, art supplies, and paints.
Some studies have linked AML risk to heavy workplace exposure to formaldehyde, but this link has not been seen in some other studies. The biggest issue with cancer seems to be environmental pollution . The biggest risk factor for cancer is living. If you are alive you risk getting cancer. If you think about it biologically human beings are an aberration of nature. Look at all other forms of animal life, none of them live into old age like humans in as large numbers. Out of the number of antelopes that are born a significant number die young due to predators. They are always on the lookout in order to survive and as soon as they weaken a bit from injury or age they are again taken care of by predators. Even the animals that are predators they cannot live long in the wild past their prime. Once they slow down they become prey. Old lions are eaten by hyenas, old hyenas are eaten by jackals, old jackals are eaten by lions etc Young strong males often kill or drive off weaker older males etc. Nature has no place for declining strength. So nature has no use for human beings past the age of 35 -40. But human beings being the cunning type that they are they invented things like respect for elders and religion and laws and governments to prevent young strong people from killing old useless people. Then they invented medicine and hospitals that allowed weak people who were supposed to die in childhood to grow and reproduce even weaker people who suffer from more and more diseases. Nature also has bacteria and viruses and predators that prevented any one species from increasing too much. Human beings invented medicine and peace and agriculture and reproduced like crazy. Nature is a little confused but remember nature has been around for billions of years so it has a way of resetting and I think cancer is just one of its solutions. It is natures way of culling the herd. you mean a 40yr old young energetic man belongs to the fossils.ongezea kidogo you will make many wazuans especially those who have been around since 2009 feel useless. the good thing is that in the long run we shall all be dead. live your life right with your maker so that when the day comes you have fewer questions to answer He is right. Organisms are supposed to reproduce and die. Just like a seed germinates, grows, flowers produces seeds (offspring) and dies to give space to the next generation. Hii maneno ya post-reproductive >40yr humans doing nothing biologically useful on earth but only filling the world, and eating and drinking and competing with their offspring for resources, is alien to nature.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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There are many non human animals that exhibit behavior akin to that of medicine.
It is possible to have a model that sees humans and their peculiarities as products of nature.
Therefore the conclusions regarding nature given by @Kusadikika and c are not necessarily true.
While there may be many theories regarding causality in cancer, there are court verdicts that seem to point out to a way for determining it.
Complexity science may also be a promising frontier in understanding cancer.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 344
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You don't always die after a cancer diagnosis. The thing with cancer (in addition to living a healthy lifestyle) is you have to catch it early. How do you do that? Get a physical at least once a year and at that physical discuss the things that have been bothering you e.g. the nagging heartburn, the pain in your hip, the lump in your prostate ... just get stuff checked out so you can catch it at stage 1 or 2, or even 3. Once it is beyond that, which is what most Kenyan cases are, it might just be too late.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Sansa wrote:You don't always die after a cancer diagnosis. The thing with cancer (in addition to living a healthy lifestyle) is you have to catch it early. How do you do that? Get a physical at least once a year and at that physical discuss the things that have been bothering you e.g. the nagging heartburn, the pain in your hip, the lump in your prostate ... just get stuff checked out so you can catch it at stage 1 or 2, or even 3. Once it is beyond that, which is what most Kenyan cases are, it might just be too late. How many kenyans go for annual medical checkups? They are quick to service their jalopies at prescribed mileage intervals but only see a doctor when something goes very wrong.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2008 Posts: 488
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hardwood wrote:newfarer wrote:Kusadikika wrote:murchr wrote:After I heard of Bob's death, I decided to look into AML, its causes risks etc...and of interest I found this. Quote:Being exposed to certain chemicals
The risk of AML is increased if you have been exposed to certain chemicals.
For example, long-term exposure to benzene is a risk factor for AML. Benzene is a solvent used in the rubber industry, oil refineries, chemical plants, shoe manufacturing, and gasoline-related industries, and is also found in cigarette smoke, gasoline and motor vehicle exhaust, and some glues, cleaning products, detergents, art supplies, and paints.
Some studies have linked AML risk to heavy workplace exposure to formaldehyde, but this link has not been seen in some other studies. The biggest issue with cancer seems to be environmental pollution . The biggest risk factor for cancer is living. If you are alive you risk getting cancer. If you think about it biologically human beings are an aberration of nature. Look at all other forms of animal life, none of them live into old age like humans in as large numbers. Out of the number of antelopes that are born a significant number die young due to predators. They are always on the lookout in order to survive and as soon as they weaken a bit from injury or age they are again taken care of by predators. Even the animals that are predators they cannot live long in the wild past their prime. Once they slow down they become prey. Old lions are eaten by hyenas, old hyenas are eaten by jackals, old jackals are eaten by lions etc Young strong males often kill or drive off weaker older males etc. Nature has no place for declining strength. So nature has no use for human beings past the age of 35 -40. But human beings being the cunning type that they are they invented things like respect for elders and religion and laws and governments to prevent young strong people from killing old useless people. Then they invented medicine and hospitals that allowed weak people who were supposed to die in childhood to grow and reproduce even weaker people who suffer from more and more diseases. Nature also has bacteria and viruses and predators that prevented any one species from increasing too much. Human beings invented medicine and peace and agriculture and reproduced like crazy. Nature is a little confused but remember nature has been around for billions of years so it has a way of resetting and I think cancer is just one of its solutions. It is natures way of culling the herd. you mean a 40yr old young energetic man belongs to the fossils.ongezea kidogo you will make many wazuans especially those who have been around since 2009 feel useless. the good thing is that in the long run we shall all be dead. live your life right with your maker so that when the day comes you have fewer questions to answer He is right. Organisms are supposed to reproduce and die. Just like a seed germinates, grows, flowers produces seeds (offspring) and dies to give space to the next generation. Hii maneno ya post-reproductive >40yr humans doing nothing biologically useful on earth but only filling the world, and eating and drinking and competing with their offspring for resources, is alien to nature. Which brings us to the often forgotten importance of natural selection in safeguarding the future of any species. Did you know that all hereditary diseases can be eliminated by ensuring the subject carriers do not sire or conceive? And that our existence is best secured by restricting mating to only the healthiest(not necessarily smartest)males and mostly with multiple females.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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gk wrote:hardwood wrote:newfarer wrote:Kusadikika wrote:murchr wrote:After I heard of Bob's death, I decided to look into AML, its causes risks etc...and of interest I found this. Quote:Being exposed to certain chemicals
The risk of AML is increased if you have been exposed to certain chemicals.
For example, long-term exposure to benzene is a risk factor for AML. Benzene is a solvent used in the rubber industry, oil refineries, chemical plants, shoe manufacturing, and gasoline-related industries, and is also found in cigarette smoke, gasoline and motor vehicle exhaust, and some glues, cleaning products, detergents, art supplies, and paints.
Some studies have linked AML risk to heavy workplace exposure to formaldehyde, but this link has not been seen in some other studies. The biggest issue with cancer seems to be environmental pollution . The biggest risk factor for cancer is living. If you are alive you risk getting cancer. If you think about it biologically human beings are an aberration of nature. Look at all other forms of animal life, none of them live into old age like humans in as large numbers. Out of the number of antelopes that are born a significant number die young due to predators. They are always on the lookout in order to survive and as soon as they weaken a bit from injury or age they are again taken care of by predators. Even the animals that are predators they cannot live long in the wild past their prime. Once they slow down they become prey. Old lions are eaten by hyenas, old hyenas are eaten by jackals, old jackals are eaten by lions etc Young strong males often kill or drive off weaker older males etc. Nature has no place for declining strength. So nature has no use for human beings past the age of 35 -40. But human beings being the cunning type that they are they invented things like respect for elders and religion and laws and governments to prevent young strong people from killing old useless people. Then they invented medicine and hospitals that allowed weak people who were supposed to die in childhood to grow and reproduce even weaker people who suffer from more and more diseases. Nature also has bacteria and viruses and predators that prevented any one species from increasing too much. Human beings invented medicine and peace and agriculture and reproduced like crazy. Nature is a little confused but remember nature has been around for billions of years so it has a way of resetting and I think cancer is just one of its solutions. It is natures way of culling the herd. you mean a 40yr old young energetic man belongs to the fossils.ongezea kidogo you will make many wazuans especially those who have been around since 2009 feel useless. the good thing is that in the long run we shall all be dead. live your life right with your maker so that when the day comes you have fewer questions to answer He is right. Organisms are supposed to reproduce and die. Just like a seed germinates, grows, flowers produces seeds (offspring) and dies to give space to the next generation. Hii maneno ya post-reproductive >40yr humans doing nothing biologically useful on earth but only filling the world, and eating and drinking and competing with their offspring for resources, is alien to nature. Which brings us to the often forgotten importance of natural selection in safeguarding the future of any species. Did you know that all hereditary diseases can be eliminated by ensuring the subject carriers do not sire or conceive? And that our existence is best secured by restricting mating to only the healthiest(not necessarily smartest)males and mostly with multiple females. DISCLAIMER: Not all cancers are hereditary....most are caused by environmental factors  "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2008 Posts: 488
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murchr wrote:gk wrote:hardwood wrote:newfarer wrote:Kusadikika wrote:murchr wrote:After I heard of Bob's death, I decided to look into AML, its causes risks etc...and of interest I found this. Quote:Being exposed to certain chemicals
The risk of AML is increased if you have been exposed to certain chemicals.
For example, long-term exposure to benzene is a risk factor for AML. Benzene is a solvent used in the rubber industry, oil refineries, chemical plants, shoe manufacturing, and gasoline-related industries, and is also found in cigarette smoke, gasoline and motor vehicle exhaust, and some glues, cleaning products, detergents, art supplies, and paints.
Some studies have linked AML risk to heavy workplace exposure to formaldehyde, but this link has not been seen in some other studies. The biggest issue with cancer seems to be environmental pollution . The biggest risk factor for cancer is living. If you are alive you risk getting cancer. If you think about it biologically human beings are an aberration of nature. Look at all other forms of animal life, none of them live into old age like humans in as large numbers. Out of the number of antelopes that are born a significant number die young due to predators. They are always on the lookout in order to survive and as soon as they weaken a bit from injury or age they are again taken care of by predators. Even the animals that are predators they cannot live long in the wild past their prime. Once they slow down they become prey. Old lions are eaten by hyenas, old hyenas are eaten by jackals, old jackals are eaten by lions etc Young strong males often kill or drive off weaker older males etc. Nature has no place for declining strength. So nature has no use for human beings past the age of 35 -40. But human beings being the cunning type that they are they invented things like respect for elders and religion and laws and governments to prevent young strong people from killing old useless people. Then they invented medicine and hospitals that allowed weak people who were supposed to die in childhood to grow and reproduce even weaker people who suffer from more and more diseases. Nature also has bacteria and viruses and predators that prevented any one species from increasing too much. Human beings invented medicine and peace and agriculture and reproduced like crazy. Nature is a little confused but remember nature has been around for billions of years so it has a way of resetting and I think cancer is just one of its solutions. It is natures way of culling the herd. you mean a 40yr old young energetic man belongs to the fossils.ongezea kidogo you will make many wazuans especially those who have been around since 2009 feel useless. the good thing is that in the long run we shall all be dead. live your life right with your maker so that when the day comes you have fewer questions to answer He is right. Organisms are supposed to reproduce and die. Just like a seed germinates, grows, flowers produces seeds (offspring) and dies to give space to the next generation. Hii maneno ya post-reproductive >40yr humans doing nothing biologically useful on earth but only filling the world, and eating and drinking and competing with their offspring for resources, is alien to nature. Which brings us to the often forgotten importance of natural selection in safeguarding the future of any species. Did you know that all hereditary diseases can be eliminated by ensuring the subject carriers do not sire or conceive? And that our existence is best secured by restricting mating to only the healthiest(not necessarily smartest)males and mostly with multiple females. DISCLAIMER: Not all cancers are hereditary....most are caused by environmental factors True. In the wider context, natural selection progressively removes those who can't adapt to the changing environment e.g when they fail to develop the necessary immunities they fall sick and/or die.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/27/2016 Posts: 274 Location: Pub
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,695
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In April 1989 the German newspaper Tageszeitung (taz) published an article on the export of contaminated food to countries outside Europe and North America. The following list is from the taz and is a supplement to the transactions mentioned in the accompanying article. It is itself supplemented where there is another source mentioned.
Cape Verde Islands: powdered milk from Switzerland
Egypt: powdered milk from UK (refused); whey from Germany (refused)
Ghana: 750 tonnes powdered milk from EC (5439 Bq); 60 tonnes from Czechoslovakia, declared fit for consumption by IAEA, Feb. 1988 - Der Spiegel (FRG), 2 Nov. 1987; Utrechts Nieuwsblad (NL), 24 June 1988
Liberia: powdered milk from EC: 15 Bq
Sudan: powdered milk from EC: up to 60 Bq
Burkino Faso: powdered milk from EC: 31 Bq
Kenya: powdered milk from Ireland: 33 Bq
Cameroon: Allgäuer butter, 4 weeks (!) after Chernobyl, not measured. Powdered milk from EC: 46 Bq
Somalia: powdered milk from EC: 24 Bq
Israel: Turkish almonds exported through France (refused) -- the third time Israel has refused contaminated exports: first, pistachio nuts; then laurel leaves -- Nieuw Israelisch Weekblad (NL), 26 June 1987
Jordan: meat from Ireland (refused and exported to Lebanon)
Iran: lamb from UK (refused)
Quatar: powdered milk from EC (refused)
Kuwait: lamb from UK (refused)
Saudi Arabia: 162 trucks from EC with items such as lentils, beans, figs, apricots and lamb (refused)
Nepal: powdered milk from Poland (refused)
Hong Kong: meat from Great Britain (refused)
Thailand: powdered milk from EC: 23 Bq
Philippines: powdered milk from Netherlands (refused) -- the same cargo was found twice in the Philippines: 1986 and August 1988 -- Trouw (NL), 30 Aug. 1988; El Pais (Spain), 30 Sept. 1986
Singapore: 240 shipments refused through Oct. 1986: powdered milk from the Netherlands, Belgium, Ireland, Denmark; cheese from France; chocolate from UK, Switzerland and Czechoslovakia; corn products from Italy; vegetables, fish, fruit and meat -- WISE NC 264, 5 Dec. 1986
Sri Lanka: 17 tonnes powdered milk from France (refused); marmalade from Poland (refused); prunes from Bulgaria (refused)
Malaysia: 45,000 kilo butter from the Netherlands, UK and Italy (refused) -- Nieuwe Krant (NL), 3 Oct. 1986; lamb from UK (refused)
Indonesia: Greek wheat (600 Bq) through Italy (refused)
Mexico: 7,000 tonnes powdered milk from Northern Ireland: 115 Bq (Brazil warned Mexico about the Irish Dairy Board and its attempts to sell powdered milk. Mexico signed a contract for 39,000 tonnes anyway. After many protests, and a large part had already been sold, the government sent back the remainder. -- NRC (NL), 26 Feb. 1988
El Salvador: powdered milk from Northern Ireland: 115 Bq
Jamaica: powdered milk from EC: 60 Bq (refused, even though EC threatened to stop all food aid, because it was meant for children and the elderly) -- 1800 bags were stolen before being destroyed -- Gelderlander (NL), 7 Sept. 1988
Venezuela: 500 tonnes powdered milk (to 1800 Bq) from Austria (refused); 6000 tonnes meat (710 Bq) from N.Ireland and Denmark (refused)
Brazil: meat from Italy (refused); powdered milk from Denmark (refused) powdered milk from EC: up to 2500 Bq
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Totally agree with the professor, we have a long way to go. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Are these the reasons for the high number of cancer cases? Nyamsomething wrote:Two things. there have been significant changes in lifestyles. And two, there was a period of under-reporting; where people who died of cancer were believed to have died of some secondary disease.
This has to do with our genes though.
Our bodies' genetic makeup has been developed for over 200,000 years as homo sapiens and for millions of years as primates. Our diet, lifestyle and environment remained the same for most of these years. However, this changed in the last couple of decades. In Africa, in just a half a century.
We have introduced a diet of 3 meals a day for 365 days! We forget that our genes are prepared to keep us humans through hunger for weeks (remember 40 days in the bible). Our bodies have slowed down processes such as ketogenesis which is mostly triggered in the absence of glucose in our bodies. Today, our bodies have glucose 24hrs, 365 days in a year. Ketogenesis is essential for the breakdown of fats in the body to provide energy.
Our forefathers used not to have breakfast or lunch. They woke up early in the morning, went hunting and never cooked while hunting. Just ate random fruits/ roots or went hungry till dusk;- when they would return home with their kill and cook it for the whole family.
Hunger was common and body processes such as Ketogenesis were common.
Apoptosis (programmed cell death) is faster for people who are fasting. Cancer occurs when our DNA is unable to regulate cell growth and apoptosis. But we have messed up with our bodies over the years so much and it's no surprise that our cells are misbehaving.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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Quote:
Cancer did not begin to kill us last month. The government owns the hospitals where cancer patients seek treatment and they’ve a disease prevalence graph that beeps on their screens every time a new case is reported.
They have been sitting on this data as Kenyans die because they’re otherwise occupied in increasing their salaries and fighting political enemies.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/4/2011 Posts: 116
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Intresting documentary on netflix https://www.netflix.com/...747225&s=a&t=wha"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
•Socrates (470?-399 BC)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,695
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I think this is an act of love and courage. May he rest in peace. https://www.nation.co.ke...29468-104ye5e/index.html
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