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ArtCaffe - The Racist Hotel at it Again
masukuma
#61 Posted : Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:16:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
ZZE123 wrote:
masukuma wrote:
kyt wrote:
mnaendanga huko kufanya nini?

coz we can! is that a good enough answer?

Then stop complaining when you are treated like a 2nd Generation citizen

I won't... coz I am not! You may have accepted your place as a 2nd "Generation"/Class citizen...And that is good for you! You may have accepted that your children are faulty because they are black.... You may have accepted the tiny corner you have been apportioned .... I have not!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
mkenyan
#62 Posted : Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:23:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,882
my take, it's hard to know if art cafe is racist as claimed. taking the complaint of the facebook guy who started all these he's a tad full of himself (just check some of the posts he makes on facebook) so may have expected to be treated like a vip and so just throwing a tuntrum. see how he mentions the big state corporation honcho he was with (or whatever big guy he was with).

i go to art cafe frequently (have great lattes) and other coffee houses and have never noticed any racism. one thing i have however noticed is that for the ones i frequent a lot i have gotten to know the service staff a bit (small chats, how's work, how's family, how's your day, you look depressed today etc) which comes normal to a place one frequents. what this means is that i at times even get served before those who arrive ahead of me. if i were white it might be considered racism by those 'skipped'...racism is unfortunately there in kenya but at times i believe we look too hard for it, even where it is not.
Alba
#63 Posted : Wednesday, October 14, 2015 11:57:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Kenyans complaining about racism yet we are among the most tribalistic societies on earth.
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

- We insult each other on social media based on tribe
- Turn on each other with pangas
- Hire and promote based on tribe
- Vote based on tribe
- Defend incompetent officials based on tribe
- Defend corruption and land grabbers based on tribe

These are all life and death issues. The restaurant with waiters who do not serve baafrigha is not a life and death issue.

This is a classic case of removing the log in the eye before worrying about the speck in the friends eye.

Or better still its a case of the pot and the kettle.

Kenyans have no leg to stand on when talking about discrimination.
dunkang
#64 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:42:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
mkenyan wrote:
......racism is unfortunately there in kenya but at times i believe we look too hard for it, even where it is not.

@Alba, this is what you should know.

"Tribalism is here in Kenya, but, not everything needs to be explained as tribalism"
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

hardwood
#65 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 7:35:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Quote:
rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.


How is it racism when it is a black waiter discriminating a black customer?
masukuma
#66 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 7:59:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Alba wrote:
Kenyans complaining about racism yet we are among the most tribalistic societies on earth.
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

- We insult each other on social media based on tribe
- Turn on each other with pangas
- Hire and promote based on tribe
- Vote based on tribe
- Defend incompetent officials based on tribe
- Defend corruption and land grabbers based on tribe

These are all life and death issues. The restaurant with waiters who do not serve baafrigha is not a life and death issue.

This is a classic case of removing the log in the eye before worrying about the speck in the friends eye.

Or better still its a case of the pot and the kettle.

Kenyans have no leg to stand on when talking about discrimination.

Sometimes you people surprise me - racism and tribalism lower the dignity of a person. The biggest issue here is exactly what I once said
"Individuality and Groupings..." Where you as an individual is being muzzled for the sins of others! Why should I not complain when my personal rights are infringed on? Should you not complain when you show up for a public job interview and you are rejected based on parameters you cannot change? Should you not been complain when you go to a public office and cannot be served based on parameters you cannot change?
Where you get it wrong is when you think private decisions like who to marry or voting are actually supposed to be based on some metric other than what the person making the decision thinks is important.

You need to learn to accept that there are individual decisions such as marriage and voting or who I choose to accomodate in my house that individuals have a right to choose the metric HOWEVER there are decisions of PUBLIC OFFICE and PUBLIC PLACES that the decision maker should not use single variables to discriminate who to give service or who not to.

@hardwood - what is it then?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Swenani
#67 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:07:44 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,236
Location: Vacuum
I'm always treated like a king in amaica restaurant,affordable healthy foods...hakuna junk food huko na racism
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Anti_Burglar
#68 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:32:56 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
masukuma wrote:
Alba wrote:
Kenyans complaining about racism yet we are among the most tribalistic societies on earth.
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

- We insult each other on social media based on tribe
- Turn on each other with pangas
- Hire and promote based on tribe
- Vote based on tribe
- Defend incompetent officials based on tribe
- Defend corruption and land grabbers based on tribe

These are all life and death issues. The restaurant with waiters who do not serve baafrigha is not a life and death issue.

This is a classic case of removing the log in the eye before worrying about the speck in the friends eye.

Or better still its a case of the pot and the kettle.

Kenyans have no leg to stand on when talking about discrimination.

Sometimes you people surprise me - racism and tribalism lower the dignity of a person. The biggest issue here is exactly what I once said
"Individuality and Groupings..." Where you as an individual is being muzzled for the sins of others! Why should I not complain when my personal rights are infringed on? Should you not complain when you show up for a public job interview and you are rejected based on parameters you cannot change? Should you not been complain when you go to a public office and cannot be served based on parameters you cannot change?
Where you get it wrong is when you think private decisions like who to marry or voting are actually supposed to be based on some metric other than what the person making the decision thinks is important.

You need to learn to accept that there are individual decisions such as marriage and voting or who I choose to accomodate in my house that individuals have a right to choose the metric HOWEVER there are decisions of PUBLIC OFFICE and PUBLIC PLACES that the decision maker should not use single variables to discriminate who to give service or who not to.

@hardwood - what is it then?



See, even you recognize these things.
Alba
#69 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 4:18:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
masukuma wrote:
[
Sometimes you people surprise me - racism and tribalism lower the dignity of a person. The biggest issue here is exactly what I once said
"Individuality and Groupings..." Where you as an individual is being muzzled for the sins of others! Why should I not complain when my personal rights are infringed on? Should you not complain when you show up for a public job interview and you are rejected based on parameters you cannot change? Should you not been complain when you go to a public office and cannot be served based on parameters you cannot change?


You are blowing this out of proportion. This thread is about mwafrigha waiters who do not want to serve their fellow Baafrigha.

No one's rights are being infringed. if you do not like this restaurant, you can go to a different restaurant.

This has nothing to do with job interviews.
Quote:

Where you get it wrong is when you think private decisions like who to marry or voting are actually supposed to be based on some metric other than what the person making the decision thinks is important.


I never said I have a problem with whom people marry.

I do have a problem with people hacking each other with pangas and calling each other names on facebook.
I have a problem when public figures are hired based on tribal arithmetic. This includes individuals who are in charge of the safety of the public.
I have a problem when public money is wasted on white elephants based on ethnic calculations

Are you suggesting that this behaviour is acceptable?


Quote:
You need to learn to accept that there are individual decisions such as marriage and voting or who I choose to accomodate in my house that individuals have a right to choose the metric HOWEVER there are decisions of PUBLIC OFFICE and PUBLIC PLACES that the decision maker should not use single variables to discriminate who to give service or who not to.


I don't care about marriage so don't try to put words in my mouth.

My point is that if people choose to vote based on ethnic calculations , if people defend corruption on a tribal basis, if people defend incompetent officials on a tribal basis then do not complain if issues like crime, unemployment, safety, or traffic.



hardwood
#70 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 4:56:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Impunity wrote:
masukuma wrote:
has anyone every wondered why only Africans were taken as slaves in such large numbers over a period of time? I mean... those places in the americas had people... why were they not enslaved in large numbers? my opinion.... KUNA VITU HAWANGE FANYA!!!

Nyeuthis were enslaved enmasse because they were as tough as the beasts burden...yaani PHUNDA.


http://archive.adl.org/h...acism.html#.Vh-v7eGhddg

C&P

Africans were not originally considered inferior. When Portuguese sailors first explored Africa in the 15th and 16th centuries, they came upon empires and cities as advanced as their own, and they considered Africans to be serious rivals. Over time, though, as African civilizations failed to match the technological advances of Europe, and the major European powers began to plunder the continent and forcibly remove its inhabitants to work as slave laborers in new colonies across the Atlantic, Africans came to be seen as a deficient "species," as "savages." To an important extent, this view was necessary to justify the slave trade at a time when Western culture had begun to promote individual rights and human equality. The willingness of some Africans to sell other Africans to European slave traders also led to claims of savagery, based on the false belief that the "dark people" were all kinsmen, all part of one society - as opposed to many different, sometimes warring nations.
Impunity
#71 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:10:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,325
Location: Masada
Swenani wrote:
I'm always treated like a king in amaica restaurant,affordable healthy foods...hakuna junk food huko na racism


Kwanja eating that Aluru dish while ogling on the huge shapy legs of the madam-proprietor, nothing can be so sweet.

Drool Drool
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

masukuma
#72 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:11:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
Impunity wrote:
masukuma wrote:
has anyone every wondered why only Africans were taken as slaves in such large numbers over a period of time? I mean... those places in the americas had people... why were they not enslaved in large numbers? my opinion.... KUNA VITU HAWANGE FANYA!!!

Nyeuthis were enslaved enmasse because they were as tough as the beasts burden...yaani PHUNDA.


http://archive.adl.org/h...acism.html#.Vh-v7eGhddg

C&P

Africans were not originally considered inferior. When Portuguese sailors first explored Africa in the 15th and 16th centuries, they came upon empires and cities as advanced as their own, and they considered Africans to be serious rivals. Over time, though, as African civilizations failed to match the technological advances of Europe, and the major European powers began to plunder the continent and forcibly remove its inhabitants to work as slave laborers in new colonies across the Atlantic, Africans came to be seen as a deficient "species," as "savages." To an important extent, this view was necessary to justify the slave trade at a time when Western culture had begun to promote individual rights and human equality. The willingness of some Africans to sell other Africans to European slave traders also led to claims of savagery, based on the false belief that the "dark people" were all kinsmen, all part of one society - as opposed to many different, sometimes warring nations.

by the way being 'black' was never really an issue in history... Romans, Greeks, Egyptians had no concept of race... it was all merit. during the dark ages Europe was conquered by black people in the form of the moors (insert debate here)... even ancient egypt had nubian kings - it was until a certain pope legitimized slavery of savages that the black listing litterally took place. the classification of races is a fairly new thing... by the way... in the US the greeks, jews, italians were only recently accepted into the "white" fold Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
there is a nice quote from a movie I saw juzi about the CIA and it's history and it went something like this
Quote:

Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?
Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
hardwood
#73 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:26:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Gathige wrote:
muganda wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
Who is racist here: the establishment or the africans working at the establishment?


This is the crux of the matter. And how do our fellow Kenyans benefit by attending better to the Caucasians?




@muganda, they get good tips.....Njungus believe in 15% of the value as tip. Nywere ngumu haachi kitu kwa service card naokota hata mapeni napeleka nyumbani.

As said elsewhere, Kila mtu Akae line yake. Susi Watu ya magomano soup bar tuko sawa. We are treated like loyalty in our locals.


When iam broke i normally go to Artcaffe because i can spend an hour 6-7pm having a double cappuccino at 240 bob while browsing on free wifi on my ipad. And then go home. This is much cheaper than going to Njuguna's and taking at some 4 beers at 800 bob from 6-8.30pm then going home. 240 bob vs 800.

So how much tip should i give for the 240bob cappuccino i normally take at artcaffe?
hardwood
#74 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:31:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Impunity wrote:
masukuma wrote:
has anyone every wondered why only Africans were taken as slaves in such large numbers over a period of time? I mean... those places in the americas had people... why were they not enslaved in large numbers? my opinion.... KUNA VITU HAWANGE FANYA!!!

Nyeuthis were enslaved enmasse because they were as tough as the beasts burden...yaani PHUNDA.


http://archive.adl.org/h...acism.html#.Vh-v7eGhddg

C&P

Africans were not originally considered inferior. When Portuguese sailors first explored Africa in the 15th and 16th centuries, they came upon empires and cities as advanced as their own, and they considered Africans to be serious rivals. Over time, though, as African civilizations failed to match the technological advances of Europe, and the major European powers began to plunder the continent and forcibly remove its inhabitants to work as slave laborers in new colonies across the Atlantic, Africans came to be seen as a deficient "species," as "savages." To an important extent, this view was necessary to justify the slave trade at a time when Western culture had begun to promote individual rights and human equality. The willingness of some Africans to sell other Africans to European slave traders also led to claims of savagery, based on the false belief that the "dark people" were all kinsmen, all part of one society - as opposed to many different, sometimes warring nations.

by the way being 'black' was never really an issue in history... Romans, Greeks, Egyptians had no concept of race... it was all merit. during the dark ages Europe was conquered by black people in the form of the moors (insert debate here)... even ancient egypt had nubian kings - it was until a certain pope legitimized slavery of savages that the black listing litterally took place. the classification of races is a fairly new thing... by the way... in the US the greeks, jews, italians were only recently accepted into the "white" fold Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
there is a nice quote from a movie I saw juzi about the CIA and it's history and it went something like this
Quote:

Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?
Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.


True. Being black was never an issue. There was even black nobility/aristocracy in Russia in 1700s.

Infact some British aristocrats are descendants of the black noble Gannibal, including Natalia Grosvenor, Duchess of Westminster and her sister, Alexandra Hamilton, Duchess of Abercorn. George Mountbatten, 4th Marquess of Milford Haven, a cousin of Queen Elizabeth II, is also a direct descendant, as the grandson of Nadejda Mountbatten, Marchioness of Milford Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org...bram_Petrovich_Gannibal
harrydre
#75 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:45:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Impunity wrote:
masukuma wrote:
has anyone every wondered why only Africans were taken as slaves in such large numbers over a period of time? I mean... those places in the americas had people... why were they not enslaved in large numbers? my opinion.... KUNA VITU HAWANGE FANYA!!!

Nyeuthis were enslaved enmasse because they were as tough as the beasts burden...yaani PHUNDA.


http://archive.adl.org/h...acism.html#.Vh-v7eGhddg

C&P

Africans were not originally considered inferior. When Portuguese sailors first explored Africa in the 15th and 16th centuries, they came upon empires and cities as advanced as their own, and they considered Africans to be serious rivals. Over time, though, as African civilizations failed to match the technological advances of Europe, and the major European powers began to plunder the continent and forcibly remove its inhabitants to work as slave laborers in new colonies across the Atlantic, Africans came to be seen as a deficient "species," as "savages." To an important extent, this view was necessary to justify the slave trade at a time when Western culture had begun to promote individual rights and human equality. The willingness of some Africans to sell other Africans to European slave traders also led to claims of savagery, based on the false belief that the "dark people" were all kinsmen, all part of one society - as opposed to many different, sometimes warring nations.

by the way being 'black' was never really an issue in history... Romans, Greeks, Egyptians had no concept of race... it was all merit. during the dark ages Europe was conquered by black people in the form of the moors (insert debate here)... even ancient egypt had nubian kings - it was until a certain pope legitimized slavery of savages that the black listing litterally took place. the classification of races is a fairly new thing... by the way... in the US the greeks, jews, italians were only recently accepted into the "white" fold Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
there is a nice quote from a movie I saw juzi about the CIA and it's history and it went something like this
Quote:

Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?
Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.


True. Being black was never an issue. There was even black nobility/aristocracy in Russia in 1700s.

Infact some British aristocrats are descendants of the black noble Gannibal, including Natalia Grosvenor, Duchess of Westminster and her sister, Alexandra Hamilton, Duchess of Abercorn. George Mountbatten, 4th Marquess of Milford Haven, a cousin of Queen Elizabeth II, is also a direct descendant, as the grandson of Nadejda Mountbatten, Marchioness of Milford Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org...bram_Petrovich_Gannibal



Abram Petrovich[1] Gannibal, also Hannibal or Ganibal or Abrham Hannibal or Abram Petrov (Russian: Абра́м Петро́вич Ганниба́л; 1696 – 14 May[2] 1781), was an Afro-Russian nobleman, military engineer and general. Kidnapped as a child and presented as a gift to Peter the Great, he was raised in the Emperor's household, and eventually rose to become a prominent member of the imperial court in the reign of Peter's daughter Elizabeth.

Do I need to read further?
i.am.back!!!!
hardwood
#76 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:54:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
harrydre wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Impunity wrote:
masukuma wrote:
has anyone every wondered why only Africans were taken as slaves in such large numbers over a period of time? I mean... those places in the americas had people... why were they not enslaved in large numbers? my opinion.... KUNA VITU HAWANGE FANYA!!!

Nyeuthis were enslaved enmasse because they were as tough as the beasts burden...yaani PHUNDA.


http://archive.adl.org/h...acism.html#.Vh-v7eGhddg

C&P

Africans were not originally considered inferior. When Portuguese sailors first explored Africa in the 15th and 16th centuries, they came upon empires and cities as advanced as their own, and they considered Africans to be serious rivals. Over time, though, as African civilizations failed to match the technological advances of Europe, and the major European powers began to plunder the continent and forcibly remove its inhabitants to work as slave laborers in new colonies across the Atlantic, Africans came to be seen as a deficient "species," as "savages." To an important extent, this view was necessary to justify the slave trade at a time when Western culture had begun to promote individual rights and human equality. The willingness of some Africans to sell other Africans to European slave traders also led to claims of savagery, based on the false belief that the "dark people" were all kinsmen, all part of one society - as opposed to many different, sometimes warring nations.

by the way being 'black' was never really an issue in history... Romans, Greeks, Egyptians had no concept of race... it was all merit. during the dark ages Europe was conquered by black people in the form of the moors (insert debate here)... even ancient egypt had nubian kings - it was until a certain pope legitimized slavery of savages that the black listing litterally took place. the classification of races is a fairly new thing... by the way... in the US the greeks, jews, italians were only recently accepted into the "white" fold Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
there is a nice quote from a movie I saw juzi about the CIA and it's history and it went something like this
Quote:

Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?
Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.


True. Being black was never an issue. There was even black nobility/aristocracy in Russia in 1700s.

Infact some British aristocrats are descendants of the black noble Gannibal, including Natalia Grosvenor, Duchess of Westminster and her sister, Alexandra Hamilton, Duchess of Abercorn. George Mountbatten, 4th Marquess of Milford Haven, a cousin of Queen Elizabeth II, is also a direct descendant, as the grandson of Nadejda Mountbatten, Marchioness of Milford Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org...bram_Petrovich_Gannibal



Abram Petrovich[1] Gannibal, also Hannibal or Ganibal or Abrham Hannibal or Abram Petrov (Russian: Абра́м Петро́вич Ганниба́л; 1696 – 14 May[2] 1781), was an Afro-Russian nobleman, military engineer and general. Kidnapped as a child and presented as a gift to Peter the Great, he was raised in the Emperor's household, and eventually rose to become a prominent member of the imperial court in the reign of Peter's daughter Elizabeth.

Do I need to read further?


But he rose to the highest ranks of Russian society and establishment. Meaning his colour was never an issue unlike today in Europe.
masukuma
#77 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 7:02:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Do you know that most of the early slaves in the US were actually... IRISH? they were enslaved by their southern protestant neighbours ...
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
innairobi
#78 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 11:41:02 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 845
this is not systematic racism but an economic decision based on the reputation of white people when it comes to tipping.

same reason African women on dating sites insist on 'preferably white' or 'preferably 40-60 years old'. its not about race or age. its about money. white males or older males are much wealthier on average compared to Africans or younger males respectively. if an African approaches that girl and flashes some serious dollars, the 'preferably white' clause will be abandoned like a venereal disease.

if a recognisably wealthy African like Chris Kirubi checks into Art Cafe, even the mzungu clients will be ignored. i would however expect management to reign in comical displays of preferential treatment like waiters stampeding to white tables. unless they are complicit.

on whether Africans should tip, they should be under no obligation to import wholesale white culture. but if you dont tip and there are others in the same restaurant who do (irrespective of color), there can be consequences such as these. You would probably be better off frequenting an authentically African establishment like Kosewe where you dont have to deal with such sideshows.

but going back to racism, there is of course that residiual inferiority complex in many Africans thanks to centuries of being socialized that anything associated with white culture is superior. that residual inferiority likely plays a part in the waiters' discrimninating behaviour but is not the main reason here.
All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
muganda
#79 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 2:48:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,901
Tipping, of course, is very American in nature. Only in the US can a 20 percent tip be customary, hence "European waiters smile so broadly when they see an American tourist walk in -- BUT American waiters are not so fond of European visitors."

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