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Madaga.. An example of failed state
Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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hardwood wrote:Health is devolved and nairobi gets the lions share of devolved funds. So if the Luo & ODM Nairobi governor was working as hard as the Machakos governor, the poor guy would not have died. Instead the governor spends 400m for roundabout drums, 400m to plant grass and is said to have "saved" ksh 1b which is lying in his private accounts, while health is in tatters. Why is that necessary? Does it strengthen the point? 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:Health is devolved and nairobi gets the lions share of devolved funds. So if the Luo & ODM Nairobi governor was working as hard as the Machakos governor, the poor guy would not have died. Instead the governor spends 400m for roundabout drums, 400m to plant grass and is said to have "saved" ksh 1b which is lying in his private accounts, while health is in tatters. Why is that necessary? Does it strengthen the point? Kenyatta hospital is a national facility under CS Macharia and Uhuru Muigai who are not Luos.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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mawinder wrote:washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:Health is devolved and nairobi gets the lions share of devolved funds. So if the Luo & ODM Nairobi governor was working as hard as the Machakos governor, the poor guy would not have died. Instead the governor spends 400m for roundabout drums, 400m to plant grass and is said to have "saved" ksh 1b which is lying in his private accounts, while health is in tatters. Why is that necessary? Does it strengthen the point? Kenyatta hospital is a national facility under CS Macharia and Uhuru Muigai who are not Luos. You continue with this tribe nonsense in health care. When you get sick while travelling for another prayer rally in Mogotio, don't ask why the kalenjin hospital doesn't have an ICU unit for your beloved kikuyu gout. this hardwood fellow just hit another low here. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:Health is devolved and nairobi gets the lions share of devolved funds. So if the Luo & ODM Nairobi governor was working as hard as the Machakos governor, the poor guy would not have died. Instead the governor spends 400m for roundabout drums, 400m to plant grass and is said to have "saved" ksh 1b which is lying in his private accounts, while health is in tatters. Why is that necessary? Does it strengthen the point? It is them who brought in tribalism into this discussion and so i also put on my tribal googles. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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I had all along avoided this thread thinking it was about Madagascar. Shock on me. Anyway,RIP. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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mawinder wrote:washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:Health is devolved and nairobi gets the lions share of devolved funds. So if the Luo & ODM Nairobi governor was working as hard as the Machakos governor, the poor guy would not have died. Instead the governor spends 400m for roundabout drums, 400m to plant grass and is said to have "saved" ksh 1b which is lying in his private accounts, while health is in tatters. Why is that necessary? Does it strengthen the point? Kenyatta hospital is a national facility under CS Macharia and Uhuru Muigai who are not Luos. Why cant this kidero build us a "Nairobi Level 5 hospital" with all the billions of our taxes he receives each year. If Mutua can have a functional county hospital in Machakos why cant kidero have a functional county hospital for us nairobians? Instead his accounts are bursting with cash and his sheep cant see anything wrong with this.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Under the new constitution, every citizen has a right to emergency health care in whatever health facility near them. This being the case, these private hospitals are started by people who have taken risks to invest heavily and expensively. It is therefore hypocritical to expect them not to think of the bottom line as they run their business, granted moral ethics are taken to consideration. Its illogical to 'dictate' to a private investor that they SHOULD treat every one who knocks on their door without assuring them how they gonna survive after that, not forgetting you will still send KRA guys for them to give their fair share of the cake to the govt. This is where the govt has failed to put in place serious measures. 1. Govt has the sole responsibility to offer medical care to all Kenyans, especially through govt medical centers. 2. There should be a fair way where when a private investor intervenes in an emergency case to save a life they should have a way of being 'paid' back for their services by the govt. There should be kind of a fund that caters for that. A policy guideline of how such cases can/should be handled. 3. Granted that we all contribute to the health sector through taxes, we should have a way where all Kenyans should be able to contribute to their health service in a more organized way. A universal health care, could be NHIF, should be mandatory to all. A fair way of doing this must be sought. 4. Govts should continue investing in the health sector. Some are trying, but much more needs to be done. 5. Finally and most important, it will all fail or rise at leadership.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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alma1 wrote:mawinder wrote:washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:Health is devolved and nairobi gets the lions share of devolved funds. So if the Luo & ODM Nairobi governor was working as hard as the Machakos governor, the poor guy would not have died. Instead the governor spends 400m for roundabout drums, 400m to plant grass and is said to have "saved" ksh 1b which is lying in his private accounts, while health is in tatters. Why is that necessary? Does it strengthen the point? Kenyatta hospital is a national facility under CS Macharia and Uhuru Muigai who are not Luos. You continue with this tribe nonsense in health care. When you get sick while travelling for another prayer rally in Mogotio, don't ask why the kalenjin hospital doesn't have an ICU unit for your beloved kikuyu gout. this hardwood fellow just hit another low here. Machakos residents arent blaming Uhuru for any shortcomings in their county. They instead talk to their governor to fix the issues using the billions allocated to them. But in nairobi whenever anything goes wrong you blame uhuru and not kidero who is the custodian of billions given given to sort our problems. Its no wonder he has stashed 1b coz we never put him to account.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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washiku wrote:Under the new constitution, every citizen has a right to emergency health care in whatever health facility near them. This being the case, these private hospitals are started by people who have taken risks to invest heavily and expensively. It is therefore hypocritical to expect them not to think of the bottom line as they run their business, granted moral ethics are taken to consideration. Its illogical to 'dictate' to a private investor that they SHOULD treat every one who knocks on their door without assuring them how they gonna survive after that, not forgetting you will still send KRA guys for them to give their fair share of the cake to the govt.
This is where the govt has failed to put in place serious measures.
1. Govt has the sole responsibility to offer medical care to all Kenyans, especially through govt medical centers.
2. There should be a fair way where when a private investor intervenes in an emergency case to save a life they should have a way of being 'paid' back for their services by the govt. There should be kind of a fund that caters for that. A policy guideline of how such cases can/should be handled.
3. Granted that we all contribute to the health sector through taxes, we should have a way where all Kenyans should be able to contribute to their health service in a more organized way. A universal health care, could be NHIF, should be mandatory to all. A fair way of doing this must be sought.
4. Govts should continue investing in the health sector. Some are trying, but much more needs to be done.
5. Finally and most important, it will all fail or rise at leadership. Agreed with you The stories of Janet Ikua and Alex Madogo surely must make some leader realise that things are not that rosy. Just last month I spent over 100k just on med bills for various family members. In my view, if there is no policy to stem this flow, then these stories just won't end. Even as we speak, its cheaper to take a plane to India than go to Nairobi Hospital. Who are these private hospitals think they are lying to? Greed is a factor in private hospitals, apathy in public health care. Mix the two with the populace who believe that their problems arise because Ruto is in the Hague, then we have entered a very slippery slope. Health care in my view is not going to get better any time soon. Yet, it is the sector that is affecting each and everyone's pocket upende usipende. Whether you have insurance or not, that harambee when your buddy get's sick, you shall pay. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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alma1 wrote:washiku wrote:Under the new constitution, every citizen has a right to emergency health care in whatever health facility near them. This being the case, these private hospitals are started by people who have taken risks to invest heavily and expensively. It is therefore hypocritical to expect them not to think of the bottom line as they run their business, granted moral ethics are taken to consideration. Its illogical to 'dictate' to a private investor that they SHOULD treat every one who knocks on their door without assuring them how they gonna survive after that, not forgetting you will still send KRA guys for them to give their fair share of the cake to the govt.
This is where the govt has failed to put in place serious measures.
1. Govt has the sole responsibility to offer medical care to all Kenyans, especially through govt medical centers.
2. There should be a fair way where when a private investor intervenes in an emergency case to save a life they should have a way of being 'paid' back for their services by the govt. There should be kind of a fund that caters for that. A policy guideline of how such cases can/should be handled.
3. Granted that we all contribute to the health sector through taxes, we should have a way where all Kenyans should be able to contribute to their health service in a more organized way. A universal health care, could be NHIF, should be mandatory to all. A fair way of doing this must be sought.
4. Govts should continue investing in the health sector. Some are trying, but much more needs to be done.
5. Finally and most important, it will all fail or rise at leadership. Agreed with you The stories of Janet Ikua and Alex Madogo surely must make some leader realise that things are not that rosy. Just last month I spent over 100k just on med bills for various family members. In my view, if there is no policy to stem this flow, then these stories just won't end. Even as we speak, its cheaper to take a plane to India than go to Nairobi Hospital. Who are these private hospitals think they are lying to? Greed is a factor in private hospitals, apathy in public health care. Mix the two with the populace who believe that their problems arise because Ruto is in the Hague, then we have entered a very slippery slope. Health care in my view is not going to get better any time soon. Yet, it is the sector that is affecting each and everyone's pocket upende usipende. Whether you have insurance or not, that harambee when your buddy get's sick, you shall pay. Come to think of it!!! 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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alma1 wrote:washiku wrote:Under the new constitution, every citizen has a right to emergency health care in whatever health facility near them. This being the case, these private hospitals are started by people who have taken risks to invest heavily and expensively. It is therefore hypocritical to expect them not to think of the bottom line as they run their business, granted moral ethics are taken to consideration. Its illogical to 'dictate' to a private investor that they SHOULD treat every one who knocks on their door without assuring them how they gonna survive after that, not forgetting you will still send KRA guys for them to give their fair share of the cake to the govt.
This is where the govt has failed to put in place serious measures.
1. Govt has the sole responsibility to offer medical care to all Kenyans, especially through govt medical centers.
2. There should be a fair way where when a private investor intervenes in an emergency case to save a life they should have a way of being 'paid' back for their services by the govt. There should be kind of a fund that caters for that. A policy guideline of how such cases can/should be handled.
3. Granted that we all contribute to the health sector through taxes, we should have a way where all Kenyans should be able to contribute to their health service in a more organized way. A universal health care, could be NHIF, should be mandatory to all. A fair way of doing this must be sought.
4. Govts should continue investing in the health sector. Some are trying, but much more needs to be done.
5. Finally and most important, it will all fail or rise at leadership. Agreed with you The stories of Janet Ikua and Alex Madogo surely must make some leader realise that things are not that rosy. Just last month I spent over 100k just on med bills for various family members. In my view, if there is no policy to stem this flow, then these stories just won't end. Even as we speak, its cheaper to take a plane to India than go to Nairobi Hospital. Who are these private hospitals think they are lying to? Greed is a factor in private hospitals, apathy in public health care.Mix the two with the populace who believe that their problems arise because Ruto is in the Hague, then we have entered a very slippery slope. Health care in my view is not going to get better any time soon. Yet, it is the sector that is affecting each and everyone's pocket upende usipende. Whether you have insurance or not, that harambee when your buddy get's sick, you shall pay. Exactly, there needs to be legislation regarding how healthcare is operated both within public and private hospitals. Private hospitals are not your run of the mill business models and cannot pretend to charge ridiculous amounts that segregate majority of the population. Why would a tooth removal cost ten fold at Nairobi hospital in comparison with say St Francis in Kasarani? There needs to be regulation. If you have ever been turned down at a private hospital just because in the middle of the night you did not have your card or money then you will understand what am talking about in regards to the need to regulate private hospitals. If we can regulate oil thru ERC surely we can also do it for health. Government can on the other hand subsidize what has been spent on emergency first response in private hospitals and any other service that can be deemed to fall into that category. As for public hospitals, there is still a lot of indifference by the staff and management carried over from yesteryear's when public meant laid back service. In my view this can be corrected through performance contracting and continuous appraisals , because this tendency for public servants to take their jobs for granted will surely spell doom for us. There is even a saying that if you want easy money, relaxed schedules and job security you should join the civil service. By the way I thought hospitals are exempt from tax by virtue of the service they provide to the public.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2014 Posts: 231
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Very unfortunate for the family, watching a loved one dies slowly knowing that there is nothing more you can do is painful.
@murchr referrals to KNH are not that procedural, kitambo if it was from another gov hospital a nurse would have to accompany one, I don't know the arrangement with the devolved structure nowadays.
But with the devolved system, it is prudent to push the counties to upgrade the level5 hospitals to deal with as many cases as possible that would ease KNH to an extent.
But people need to vote in proper governors, health management was given to the people.
but its funny with all the publicity not even one of the private hospitals with the proper equipment to handle the case decided to take him in, But hey, how many sick homeless guys do we pass on the road everyday without caring to help, its money first. The reality is plain for all to see. Madaga suffered extensive brain injury and his life is being supported by machines as he is brain dead. However, euthanasia is illegal in Kenya. What KNH is trying to do is criminal. Referrals can be either way (down or up). KNH can refer a patient to Thika for rehabilitative care. Thika can refer to KNH for severe burns. Most common is down to up i.e. Maragua district hospital will refer a gunshot patient to Murang'a district hospital, which will refer to Thika Level 5 hospital (Thika is closer to Murang'a but ideally the patient should be referred to Nyeri provincial). Thika will assess the patient and say the bullet has nicked the spine and so they'll send to KNH for the neurosurgeons to see and manage. Each hospital uses it's own ambulance and staff to refer. If they don't have one, they call the larger hospital to send an ambulance. Comprehensive medical notes should accompany each referral but this is not the case as some facilities are manned by nurses and COs. A referral can take up to 24 hours to complete. 5 out of 10 patients will die in the ambulance during transit or while awaiting referral. From experience, KNH is the worst place to refer unstable patients (comatose, elderly, chronic cases etc). Pregnant women and children are received relatively fast. KNH can decline a referral if they feel the care can be received at a lower hospital (they can decline a bleed in the brain from Thika and say Thika has a very qualified surgeon who can evacuate the bleed). It's a bit political too. Heck, the CEO of KNH was given the post due to political expediency (Ruto ally). Most registras (seniour house officers) at KNH who receive and treat the patients do not receive a salary or allowance. Morale is low. Private hospitals can refer to public hospitals (they do that a lot for critical patients or patients without money to pay). "Occasionally I drop a tea cup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I am not satisfied when it does not gather itself up again. Someday perhaps that cup will come together."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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Impunity wrote:I had all along avoided this thread thinking it was about Madagascar.
Shock on me.
Anyway,RIP.  Quote:A man who spent 18 hours in an ambulance waiting for ICU services has passed away at Kenyatta National Hospital.
Family members said Mr Alex Madaga died at 1.50pm on Friday.
Mr Madaga’s heart, according to family members, stopped beating at 1.50pm and he was declared dead shortly afterwards.
The road crash survivor spent 18 hours in an ambulance waiting for ICU services at four hospitals.
Earlier, the family was in a dilemma as to whether they should switch off the life support machines and allow him to die.
Doctors had on Thursday told them that it was unlikely Mr Madaga would wake up from the coma, and had counselled them to “accept his possible death”.
His cousin, Mr Oliver Esemere, said “he was resuscitated but he did not respond. His body will remain at KNH and we will pick him up tomorrow.”
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2014 Posts: 231
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Gathige wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Very unfortunate for the family, watching a loved one dies slowly knowing that there is nothing more you can do is painful.
@murchr referrals to KNH are not that procedural, kitambo if it was from another gov hospital a nurse would have to accompany one, I don't know the arrangement with the devolved structure nowadays.
But with the devolved system, it is prudent to push the counties to upgrade the level5 hospitals to deal with as many cases as possible that would ease KNH to an extent.
But people need to vote in proper governors, health management was given to the people.
but its funny with all the publicity not even one of the private hospitals with the proper equipment to handle the case decided to take him in, But hey, how many sick homeless guys do we pass on the road everyday without caring to help, its money first. This case exemplifies the rot in our health care system. I have been to the KNH casualty twice at late night hours and I got depressed. What ones witnesses there can cause a fainthearted to invest in a rope, tie a knot and kick a stool....commit suicide. The facilities are overstretched, very many needy cases....accidents, burns, robbery victims etc and the limited health care workers all trying to do their best in the circumstances. KNH is just overstretched and counties should just invest in healthcare. KNH should be handed over whole to the UoN to own and operate. Government has no clue about running that hospital. The apathy is palpable. If possible, seek emergency care at a private hospital first. "Occasionally I drop a tea cup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I am not satisfied when it does not gather itself up again. Someday perhaps that cup will come together."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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timizo wrote:And someone was procuring services for a Kshs 27 billion hospital when the current ones have no capacity. Our leaders are truly heartless. If you are poor in Kenya, pray hard that nothing like injury or sickness come your way. Two years from now, we will be sacrificing a whole day to decide who we would like to screw us. @timizo, this is the best post on this thread. Gado should do a cartoon depicting wanjiku and atienos making the choice. We are arguing as if we didn't know we are in a banana republic. And no, our leaders are not the problem. Actually we have far much better leaders than we deserve.The average Kenyan voter doesn't deserve anything else but leaders who will screw him proper. If this is the quality of debate in wazua, how bad is it further down the food chain.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2014 Posts: 231
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washiku wrote:Under the new constitution, every citizen has a right to emergency health care in whatever health facility near them. This being the case, these private hospitals are started by people who have taken risks to invest heavily and expensively. It is therefore hypocritical to expect them not to think of the bottom line as they run their business, granted moral ethics are taken to consideration. Its illogical to 'dictate' to a private investor that they SHOULD treat every one who knocks on their door without assuring them how they gonna survive after that, not forgetting you will still send KRA guys for them to give their fair share of the cake to the govt.
This is where the govt has failed to put in place serious measures.
1. Govt has the sole responsibility to offer medical care to all Kenyans, especially through govt medical centers.
2. There should be a fair way where when a private investor intervenes in an emergency case to save a life they should have a way of being 'paid' back for their services by the govt. There should be kind of a fund that caters for that. A policy guideline of how such cases can/should be handled.
3. Granted that we all contribute to the health sector through taxes, we should have a way where all Kenyans should be able to contribute to their health service in a more organized way. A universal health care, could be NHIF, should be mandatory to all. A fair way of doing this must be sought.
4. Govts should continue investing in the health sector. Some are trying, but much more needs to be done.
5. Finally and most important, it will all fail or rise at leadership. Devolving health care was the WORST decision Kenyans ever made. It demoralised healthcare personnel, created a challenge with medical supplies, disrupted financing for health and led to poorer service delivery. Governors and MCAs do not understand healthcare. Healthcare consumes a large amount of county budgets and they always strive to reduce this expenditure creating bigger problems. There are so many hurdles to investing in a private hospital. True, the government should give incentives for investors to build and run hospitals in Kenya. "Occasionally I drop a tea cup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I am not satisfied when it does not gather itself up again. Someday perhaps that cup will come together."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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FRM2011 wrote:timizo wrote:And someone was procuring services for a Kshs 27 billion hospital when the current ones have no capacity. Our leaders are truly heartless. If you are poor in Kenya, pray hard that nothing like injury or sickness come your way. Two years from now, we will be sacrificing a whole day to decide who we would like to screw us. @timizo, this is the best post on this thread. Gado should do a cartoon depicting wanjiku and atienos making the choice. We are arguing as if we didn't know we are in a banana republic. And no, our leaders are not the problem. Actually we have far much better leaders than we deserve.The average Kenyan voter doesn't deserve anything else but leaders who will screw him proper. If this is the quality of debate in wazua, how bad is it further down the food chain. @FRM2011, you are right. We as citizens are *ss holes! We deserve what we get. Even intellectuals vote along tribal lines.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2014 Posts: 231
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alma1 wrote:washiku wrote:Under the new constitution, every citizen has a right to emergency health care in whatever health facility near them. This being the case, these private hospitals are started by people who have taken risks to invest heavily and expensively. It is therefore hypocritical to expect them not to think of the bottom line as they run their business, granted moral ethics are taken to consideration. Its illogical to 'dictate' to a private investor that they SHOULD treat every one who knocks on their door without assuring them how they gonna survive after that, not forgetting you will still send KRA guys for them to give their fair share of the cake to the govt.
This is where the govt has failed to put in place serious measures.
1. Govt has the sole responsibility to offer medical care to all Kenyans, especially through govt medical centers.
2. There should be a fair way where when a private investor intervenes in an emergency case to save a life they should have a way of being 'paid' back for their services by the govt. There should be kind of a fund that caters for that. A policy guideline of how such cases can/should be handled.
3. Granted that we all contribute to the health sector through taxes, we should have a way where all Kenyans should be able to contribute to their health service in a more organized way. A universal health care, could be NHIF, should be mandatory to all. A fair way of doing this must be sought.
4. Govts should continue investing in the health sector. Some are trying, but much more needs to be done.
5. Finally and most important, it will all fail or rise at leadership. Agreed with you The stories of Janet Ikua and Alex Madogo surely must make some leader realise that things are not that rosy. Just last month I spent over 100k just on med bills for various family members. In my view, if there is no policy to stem this flow, then these stories just won't end. Even as we speak, its cheaper to take a plane to India than go to Nairobi Hospital. Who are these private hospitals think they are lying to? Greed is a factor in private hospitals, apathy in public health care. Mix the two with the populace who believe that their problems arise because Ruto is in the Hague, then we have entered a very slippery slope. Health care in my view is not going to get better any time soon. Yet, it is the sector that is affecting each and everyone's pocket upende usipende. Whether you have insurance or not, that harambee when your buddy get's sick, you shall pay. Brace yourselves. Put some money aside for medical care. Have a doctor/nurse friend who can help you out when you need care. Those friends from high school, it's time to have one on speed dial. In this country, children die from diarrhoea, malaria and pneumonia. Preventable and treatable diseases. If we cannot do the basic things well, how are we going to offer dialysis services to the thousands of kidney disease patients? 50-year old men walk around with urinary catheters because they cannot afford 10k for prostate surgery at the district hospital. Ni kubaya. "Occasionally I drop a tea cup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I am not satisfied when it does not gather itself up again. Someday perhaps that cup will come together."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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What has Kidero done with the billions allocated to Nairobi each year? Each year he gets billions for healthcare. So which county hospital are nairobians supposed to go to when they get sick? And dont say Kenyatta coz that is a national referral hospital.
What does he do with the billions allocated to run county hospitals?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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hardwood wrote:What has Kidero done with the billions allocated to Nairobi each year? Each year he gets billions for healthcare. So which county hospital are nairobians supposed to go to when they get sick? And dont say Kenyatta coz that is a national referral hospital.
What does he do with the billions allocated to run county hospitals? Mama Lucy, Mbagathi, the list is here but none of these is worth its salt. They all need an upgrade "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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