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The KenolKobil 2015 pendulum
VituVingiSana
#1441 Posted : Sunday, March 26, 2017 3:50:21 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
Horton wrote:
VVS et all, - just curious what you think this counter is worth and if you will ever exit?

Good question. If offered a good [20/-?] price within 18 months then I would sell. Ceteris paribus e.g. Inflation remains within 5-8%, GoK pays 13% or less, GoK (Per Capita Debt) remains the same, Fuel price formula remains the same, no PEV, etc.

I am not married to KK but if the price remains anemic then I will hold on for the future growth and dividends.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Horton
#1442 Posted : Sunday, March 26, 2017 6:52:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VVS et all, - just curious what you think this counter is worth and if you will ever exit?

Good question. If offered a good [20/-?] price within 18 months then I would sell. Ceteris paribus e.g. Inflation remains within 5-8%, GoK pays 13% or less, GoK (Per Capita Debt) remains the same, Fuel price formula remains the same, no PEV, etc.

I am not married to KK but if the price remains anemic then I will hold on for the future growth and dividends.



Orite. So how do u get that valuation of 20/-? Whats the mathematics?
VituVingiSana
#1443 Posted : Sunday, March 26, 2017 7:44:18 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
Horton wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VVS et all, - just curious what you think this counter is worth and if you will ever exit?

Good question. If offered a good [20/-?] price within 18 months then I would sell. Ceteris paribus e.g. Inflation remains within 5-8%, GoK pays 13% or less, GoK (Per Capita Debt) remains the same, Fuel price formula remains the same, no PEV, etc.

I am not married to KK but if the price remains anemic then I will hold on for the future growth and dividends.



Orite. So how do u get that valuation of 20/-? Whats the mathematics?

I use earnings yield and risk-free GoK returns. Ceteris paribus (not easy so I discount for it)
13.5% for risk-free 12yr paper but modified duration of 10yrs.
That's 355% aka 100 becomes 355 in 10yrs after compounding.
KK can make 2/- per share which is 15% EY. There will be some hits now & then but I expect at least a modest growth in EPS over 10 yrs. I will also get dividends which can be reinvested into KK or other savings.

I expect KK to receive KES 1.1bn from KPRL. Of this, KK has written off 600mn which is KES 0.40/share. There's another award vs KPC [google Nation or BD] and the net award after all the back and forth is estimated at 3bn [I think there are still appeals going back and forth but eventually KK will win]. That's 2/-.

So approx 2.50 isn't accounted for in the NAV. That's nothing to do with earnings from existing business.

2/- x 10 years = 20 [plus modest EPS growth but less dividends] = 20
Add 2.50 [not adjusted for inflation]
Dividends over 10 yrs @50cents = 5/-

27.50 in 10yrs assuming no increase in value of fixed assets e.g. Land
If I am offered 20/- in 2018 (Sep 2018), I might be slightly ahead of the T-Bonds.
If not, then enjoy the ride.
Ceteris paribus
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#1444 Posted : Sunday, March 26, 2017 9:07:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VVS et all, - just curious what you think this counter is worth and if you will ever exit?

Good question. If offered a good [20/-?] price within 18 months then I would sell. Ceteris paribus e.g. Inflation remains within 5-8%, GoK pays 13% or less, GoK (Per Capita Debt) remains the same, Fuel price formula remains the same, no PEV, etc.

I am not married to KK but if the price remains anemic then I will hold on for the future growth and dividends.



Orite. So how do u get that valuation of 20/-? Whats the mathematics?

I use earnings yield and risk-free GoK returns. Ceteris paribus (not easy so I discount for it)
13.5% for risk-free 12yr paper but modified duration of 10yrs.
That's 355% aka 100 becomes 355 in 10yrs after compounding.
KK can make 2/- per share which is 15% EY. There will be some hits now & then but I expect at least a modest growth in EPS over 10 yrs. I will also get dividends which can be reinvested into KK or other savings.

I expect KK to receive KES 1.1bn from KPRL. Of this, KK has written off 600mn which is KES 0.40/share. There's another award vs KPC [google Nation or BD] and the net award after all the back and forth is estimated at 3bn [I think there are still appeals going back and forth but eventually KK will win]. That's 2/-.

So approx 2.50 isn't accounted for in the NAV. That's nothing to do with earnings from existing business.

2/- x 10 years = 20 [plus modest EPS growth but less dividends] = 20
Add 2.50 [not adjusted for inflation]
Dividends over 10 yrs @50cents = 5/-

[colour=blue] 27.50 in 10yrs [/colour] assuming no increase in value of fixed assets e.g. Land
If I am offered 20/- in 2018 (Sep 2018), I might be slightly ahead of the T-Bonds.
If not, then enjoy the ride.
Ceteris paribus


VVS do you suppose there are stocks with a better potential? 100% percent in 10yrs is not too exciting a return.

Most banks, the power generator, our favourite reinsurer, the regional hotel chain and DJ's project will hit that return in less than 5.
Life is short. Live passionately.
VituVingiSana
#1445 Posted : Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:51:31 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VVS et all, - just curious what you think this counter is worth and if you will ever exit?

Good question. If offered a good [20/-?] price within 18 months then I would sell. Ceteris paribus e.g. Inflation remains within 5-8%, GoK pays 13% or less, GoK (Per Capita Debt) remains the same, Fuel price formula remains the same, no PEV, etc.

I am not married to KK but if the price remains anemic then I will hold on for the future growth and dividends.



Orite. So how do u get that valuation of 20/-? Whats the mathematics?

I use earnings yield and risk-free GoK returns. Ceteris paribus (not easy so I discount for it)
13.5% for risk-free 12yr paper but modified duration of 10yrs.
That's 355% aka 100 becomes 355 in 10yrs after compounding.
KK can make 2/- per share which is 15% EY. There will be some hits now & then but I expect at least a modest growth in EPS over 10 yrs. I will also get dividends which can be reinvested into KK or other savings.

I expect KK to receive KES 1.1bn from KPRL. Of this, KK has written off 600mn which is KES 0.40/share. There's another award vs KPC [google Nation or BD] and the net award after all the back and forth is estimated at 3bn [I think there are still appeals going back and forth but eventually KK will win]. That's 2/-.

So approx 2.50 isn't accounted for in the NAV. That's nothing to do with earnings from existing business.

2/- x 10 years = 20 [plus modest EPS growth but less dividends] = 20
Add 2.50 [not adjusted for inflation]
Dividends over 10 yrs @50cents = 5/-

[colour=blue] 27.50 in 10yrs [/colour] assuming no increase in value of fixed assets e.g. Land
If I am offered 20/- in 2018 (Sep 2018), I might be slightly ahead of the T-Bonds.
If not, then enjoy the ride.
Ceteris paribus


VVS do you suppose there are stocks with a better potential? 100% percent in 10yrs is not too exciting a return.

Most banks, the power generator, our favourite reinsurer, the regional hotel chain and DJ's project will hit that return in less than 5.

I expect more in 10 yrs (total return) but I prefer to be conservative. Yes, to many banks at current prices. Yes, to KenRe.
I used 15% EY for KK but less in future years to be conservative and lower growth prospects within EAC as it grows larger.
I don't invest in more than 10 stock with 5 as core. The "second" 5 includes TPSEA, C&G, FTGH. No DJ for now until I have a better read on Two Rivers. If you remove Two Rivers then I like the rest of the biz. Two Rivers seemed rather empty to me. Many stores haven't opened, huge maintenance costs, pricey stores, etc.
No to KenGen and KPLC for now. The rot in KPLC will come out. Apparently, suppliers include some senior chaps in GoK. On KenGen, perhaps later but not interested at the moment. Except KenRe, I stay away from GoK firms.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Horton
#1446 Posted : Monday, March 27, 2017 11:49:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
orite. I see. I got a different valuation form my math. I may have used an uber conservative bias. I lean toward a higher moat.

The thing that gets to me with this company is the industry. Poor net margins.

I had bought this stock a while back at 47/- on average. I sold out at 102/- presplit. Then it had quite a few metrics going for it including the Puma manenos. As I slowly get back into the stock markets after a long hiatus to see where I should be during the eventual uptick, i am looking at all stocks. (thank God for my timely exit just before the anhialation of stock prices) 😳

No doubt, management is outstanding...however as your icon says:

"When a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact" ---Warren Buffet
VituVingiSana
#1447 Posted : Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:41:14 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
Horton wrote:
orite. I see. I got a different valuation form my math. I may have used an uber conservative bias. I lean toward a higher moat.

The thing that gets to me with this company is the industry. Poor net margins.

I had bought this stock a while back at 47/- on average. I sold out at 102/- presplit. Then it had quite a few metrics going for it including the Puma manenos. As I slowly get back into the stock markets after a long hiatus to see where I should be during the eventual uptick, i am looking at all stocks. (thank God for my timely exit just before the anhialation of stock prices) 😳

No doubt, management is outstanding...however as your icon says:

"When a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact" ---Warren Buffet

Price controls (floors & caps) can destroy any industry. Look at the banks. The share prices for most, even the venerable Equity [all except Stanchart it seems] is down coz future prospects are diminished. Populist attempts have been made on M-Pesa as well. Even the millers are affected. Then there's the insurance industry too. Even taxis re: Uber. We might as well officially become a socialist country.

KK - There's little KK can do about margins set by a govt bureaucracy pushing a political agenda. Some populists even think existing margins are too high despite warnings that stations may not open in areas where land is deemed too pricey! I believe KK will slowly gain market share by increasing volumes & spreading fixed costs over more volumes which benefits the bottomline. It's not ideal. I see value for KK in some stations it owns which should be shut down & KK can sell/develop the properties.

That said, Ohana was clear about favoring higher margin products with no price controls e.g. LPG & lubricants. Fuel pays the bills. Other products pay for the vacations. New stations are being leased in areas where roads are opening up but not in expensive areas where lease costs are prohibitive.

Like the banks, I expect consolidation e.g. GAPCO sold to Total, Hashi to Lake Oil, etc. Price controls diminish competition by creating barriers to entry.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#1448 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 7:58:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,472
Location: nairobi
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
obiero wrote:
karasinga wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Supply has dried

sounds like a trap. KENO is not yet done moving down. 11.5 might easily print but first we may see 13.2 . Just my opinion

KES 11.5 and lower is more likely.. Definitely buying

You are not welcome to buy kk

Hehe..


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Today we touched KES 11.5 being my target buy price. Sasa niko ndani, ndani..

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Horton
#1449 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 9:57:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
obiero wrote:
karasinga wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Supply has dried

sounds like a trap. KENO is not yet done moving down. 11.5 might easily print but first we may see 13.2 . Just my opinion

KES 11.5 and lower is more likely.. Definitely buying

You are not welcome to buy kk

Hehe..


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Today we touched KES 11.5 being my target buy price. Sasa niko ndani, ndani..


From my mathematicos, I will only jump in below 10/- probably wont get to those levels.
Realtreaty
#1450 Posted : Saturday, April 01, 2017 12:13:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,260
The movement in prices cum-dividend is due to what we call sale before a speculated price fall and a buy to earn a proposed dividend and a likely trend to move up ex-dividend.
For those who entered at 10, they are massively selling at 12-14 to rake in a max of 4 shillings. For those hungry to enter they either have to enter ex-dividend assuming price moves south or now when supply is high bringing down the price.
Homeboyz will accumulate till a good bonus is issued 2017-8-9 year periods say 1 for every 5 held in future.
sparkly
#1451 Posted : Sunday, April 02, 2017 11:36:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Horton wrote:
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
obiero wrote:
karasinga wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Supply has dried

sounds like a trap. KENO is not yet done moving down. 11.5 might easily print but first we may see 13.2 . Just my opinion

KES 11.5 and lower is more likely.. Definitely buying

You are not welcome to buy kk

Hehe..


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Today we touched KES 11.5 being my target buy price. Sasa niko ndani, ndani..


From my mathematicos, I will only jump in below 10/- probably wont get to those levels.


I exited at 13.10. looking for better value elsewhere.
Life is short. Live passionately.
obiero
#1452 Posted : Monday, April 03, 2017 6:05:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,472
Location: nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Horton wrote:
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
obiero wrote:
karasinga wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Supply has dried

sounds like a trap. KENO is not yet done moving down. 11.5 might easily print but first we may see 13.2 . Just my opinion

KES 11.5 and lower is more likely.. Definitely buying

You are not welcome to buy kk

Hehe..


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Today we touched KES 11.5 being my target buy price. Sasa niko ndani, ndani..


From my mathematicos, I will only jump in below 10/- probably wont get to those levels.


I exited at 13.10. looking for better value elsewhere.

Today we are up 3.75%.. A store of value lies in KENO

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Angelica _ann
#1453 Posted : Monday, April 03, 2017 8:40:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,901
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Horton wrote:
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
obiero wrote:
karasinga wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Supply has dried

sounds like a trap. KENO is not yet done moving down. 11.5 might easily print but first we may see 13.2 . Just my opinion

KES 11.5 and lower is more likely.. Definitely buying

You are not welcome to buy kk

Hehe..


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Today we touched KES 11.5 being my target buy price. Sasa niko ndani, ndani..


From my mathematicos, I will only jump in below 10/- probably wont get to those levels.


I exited at 13.10. looking for better value elsewhere.

Today we are up 3.75%.. A store of value lies in KENO


Is@Obiero's account hacked Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
karasinga
#1454 Posted : Monday, April 03, 2017 9:24:15 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/26/2015
Posts: 1,147
Angelica _ann wrote:
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Horton wrote:
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
obiero wrote:
karasinga wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Supply has dried

sounds like a trap. KENO is not yet done moving down. 11.5 might easily print but first we may see 13.2 . Just my opinion

KES 11.5 and lower is more likely.. Definitely buying

You are not welcome to buy kk

Hehe..


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Today we touched KES 11.5 being my target buy price. Sasa niko ndani, ndani..


From my mathematicos, I will only jump in below 10/- probably wont get to those levels.


I exited at 13.10. looking for better value elsewhere.

Today we are up 3.75%.. A store of value lies in KENO


Is@Obiero's account hacked Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

11.55 printed 2 trading days ago.

TRADE WHAT YOU SEE
It's not over until I win
skype id: karasinga. email: kkarasinga@gmail.com
Spikes
#1455 Posted : Monday, April 03, 2017 9:46:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Horton wrote:
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
obiero wrote:
karasinga wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Supply has dried

sounds like a trap. KENO is not yet done moving down. 11.5 might easily print but first we may see 13.2 . Just my opinion

KES 11.5 and lower is more likely.. Definitely buying

You are not welcome to buy kk

Hehe..


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Today we touched KES 11.5 being my target buy price. Sasa niko ndani, ndani..


From my mathematicos, I will only jump in below 10/- probably wont get to those levels.


I exited at 13.10. looking for better value elsewhere.

Today we are up 3.75%.. A store of value lies in KENO

@Obiero any exchange bar hot tips about KK? Please share with us.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
bartum
#1456 Posted : Tuesday, April 04, 2017 2:19:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,011
Location: nairobi
@karasinga hope you're seeing what's happening at KK
karasinga
#1457 Posted : Tuesday, April 04, 2017 6:21:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/26/2015
Posts: 1,147
bartum wrote:
@karasinga hope you're seeing what's happening at KK

Yes mate. What I am seeing is total confluence. Check the last two analysis. The first one was in another discussion.



Will include supply and demand analysis when I get time.
Remember. Anything can happen
It's not over until I win
skype id: karasinga. email: kkarasinga@gmail.com
mlennyma
#1458 Posted : Tuesday, April 04, 2017 7:09:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,175
Location: nairobi
karasinga wrote:
bartum wrote:
@karasinga hope you're seeing what's happening at KK

Yes mate. What I am seeing is total confluence. Check the last two analysis. The first one was in another discussion.



Will include supply and demand analysis when I get time.
Remember. Anything can happen

Can you give prediction targets
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
karasinga
#1459 Posted : Tuesday, April 04, 2017 8:27:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/26/2015
Posts: 1,147
mlennyma wrote:
karasinga wrote:
bartum wrote:
@karasinga hope you're seeing what's happening at KK

Yes mate. What I am seeing is total confluence. Check the last two analysis. The first one was in another discussion.



Will include supply and demand analysis when I get time.
Remember. Anything can happen

Can you give prediction targets

Hello mlennyma, Long time... IMHO, If bulls are able to pull their acts together and follow through, the following are potential sell targets:
Note: trend carefully at or around
target 1= 16.85
target 2= 18.3
target 3= 22.3
target 4= 29.1
(most ambitious)

Supply and Demand analysis here
Hope this is helpful
It's not over until I win
skype id: karasinga. email: kkarasinga@gmail.com
mlennyma
#1460 Posted : Thursday, April 06, 2017 2:36:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,175
Location: nairobi
Volume, volume
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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