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Future of Safaricom - break up due to dominance!
VituVingiSana
#41 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2015 6:07:33 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
@iris - The Garvey/Gevey SIM helped many bypass the 'locking' that AT&T had on their phones even AFTER the contract expired. I bought one for a friend for a locked iPhone.

Equitel isn't riding on Safaricom's network. A ThinSIM allows a single SIM phone to be used as a dual SIM phone. Equitel uses Airtel's infrastructure for data & voice. As phones become cheaper, the dual SIM phone will become cheaper too & the ThinSIM may be irrelevant. Apple has introduced an 'Apple SIM' which is not carrier dependent i.e. you can go to any carrier.

I have a dual SIM but I end up using Safaricom [& M-Pesa] more often since they have more tills. Plus I prefer the quality voice calls on Safaricom vs Airtel/Equitel. And using Safaricom for voice/data is cheaper than Equitel for me!

Data - My spend on Voice is less than 30% of what I spend on data. That's where Safaricom beats Airtel/Orange because within Nairobi I get 4G/LTE. I spend much more on data than voice. And Airtel has missed the boat on this. Equitel at most will be a money transfer service.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
timbosho
#42 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 5:44:14 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/23/2013
Posts: 34
mazingira wrote:
Gordon Gekko wrote:
@iris, I have no grudge against success. I have a major problem with monopolistic control over critical sectors, worse, control over several critical sectors. If safcom, which today can shut down Kenya's financial sector takes control of the security sector (which it will at the conclusion of the cops project), we will have sold ourselves to vodacom.
There's a reason why we have a competition authority in Kenya, there's a reason why Bell Telephones in the US was broken up, there's a reason why there are active plans to breakup Google. There's also a reason why any political leader ensures that he fully controls the financial, information and security arms of government.


What about government monoploies like KPLC fleecing the public at least safcom is run well KPLC service sucks and we pay silly money to kplc


This contradiction fascinates me. I don't know why people are so fixed on Safaricom yet there are much worse monopolies in which you have no option like Kenya Power, Nairobi Water etc. Maybe its the "crazy" profits. Maybe its just another manifestation of our peculiar habits.
murchr
#43 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 7:16:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
VituVingiSana wrote:
@iris - The Garvey/Gevey SIM helped many bypass the 'locking' that AT&T had on their phones even AFTER the contract expired. I bought one for a friend for a locked iPhone.

Equitel isn't riding on Safaricom's network. A ThinSIM allows a single SIM phone to be used as a dual SIM phone. Equitel uses Airtel's infrastructure for data & voice. As phones become cheaper, the dual SIM phone will become cheaper too & the ThinSIM may be irrelevant. Apple has introduced an 'Apple SIM' which is not carrier dependent i.e. you can go to any carrier.

I have a dual SIM but I end up using Safaricom [& M-Pesa] more often since they have more tills. Plus I prefer the quality voice calls on Safaricom vs Airtel/Equitel. And using Safaricom for voice/data is cheaper than Equitel for me!

Data - My spend on Voice is less than 30% of what I spend on data. That's where Safaricom beats Airtel/Orange because within Nairobi I get 4G/LTE. I spend much more on data than voice. And Airtel has missed the boat on this. Equitel at most will be a money transfer service.


OK.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
VituVingiSana
#44 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 7:39:50 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
@murchr - I hope Equitel increases their presence across the board by having more businesses sign up to their payment channel. It's a good thing as a consumer to have increased competition between the players.

Data - I tried to use Airtel data but once you try LTE/4G ... Airtel's 3.75G [or whatever they call it] just doesn't cut it.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#45 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 8:33:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
muganda
#46 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 3:54:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,901
Latest earnings share; interesting comment...
kawi254
#47 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:40:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2015
Posts: 465
Location: Nairobi
Tanzania has 7 Mobile Operators: (Voda, Tigo, Airtel, Smile, Halotel,Zantel,Smart)

Kenya has 3 mobile operators with Orange selling out.

Peculiar market!
watesh
#48 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 5:27:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/10/2014
Posts: 955
Location: Kenya
VituVingiSana wrote:
@iris - The Garvey/Gevey SIM helped many bypass the 'locking' that AT&T had on their phones even AFTER the contract expired. I bought one for a friend for a locked iPhone.

Equitel isn't riding on Safaricom's network. A ThinSIM allows a single SIM phone to be used as a dual SIM phone. Equitel uses Airtel's infrastructure for data & voice. As phones become cheaper, the dual SIM phone will become cheaper too & the ThinSIM may be irrelevant. Apple has introduced an 'Apple SIM' which is not carrier dependent i.e. you can go to any carrier.

I have a dual SIM but I end up using Safaricom [& M-Pesa] more often since they have more tills. Plus I prefer the quality voice calls on Safaricom vs Airtel/Equitel. And using Safaricom for voice/data is cheaper than Equitel for me!

Data - My spend on Voice is less than 30% of what I spend on data. That's where Safaricom beats Airtel/Orange because within Nairobi I get 4G/LTE. I spend much more on data than voice. And Airtel has missed the boat on this. Equitel at most will be a money transfer service.

They need Kenya Power prepaid soonest, thats one important payments they lack. I just wonder how they will make money since almost everything is free.
mlennyma
#49 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2015 5:37:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,175
Location: nairobi
The market needs a positive H1 to sustain the current price range.a decline can be dangerous
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
murchr
#50 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:53:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
VituVingiSana
#51 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 10:59:16 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
muganda
#52 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:35:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,901
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.

On this one, the hard truth is Airtel will always whine, the way an 'impoverished', 'disadvantaged', 'poverty-striken' one whines. Bandwidth and licenses are bought by entities and utilized to generate positive return on capital - alas in their case: no money to buy, no return when given.

Airtel would swagger proudly on KE telecom space if they made money.
dunkang
#53 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:21:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.

Though not a fan of SafCom products and exorbitant pricing, i am inclined to differ with you on this issue of 4G LTE licensing.

Airtel strategy to beating SafCom (and even making money) is whining and Crying. They need to stop that B.S and come up with super ideas like they did with UNLIMINET.

If you can't raise capital, forget about that business and concentrate on businesses you can afford.

3G is still largely unused, yet they want to rush to 4G.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

VituVingiSana
#54 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 3:48:34 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
dunkang wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.

Though not a fan of SafCom products and exorbitant pricing, i am inclined to differ with you on this issue of 4G LTE licensing.

Airtel strategy to beating SafCom (and even making money) is whining and Crying. They need to stop that B.S and come up with super ideas like they did with UNLIMINET.

If you can't raise capital, forget about that business and concentrate on businesses you can afford.

3G is still largely unused, yet they want to rush to 4G.

Whining aside, the technology for LTE/4G offers a huge advantage [value] compared to 3G. It is better to spend $100mn on 4G than the same amount on 3G.

What worries me is that a dominant operator will start screwing us over. Safaricom is so confident about its market share that it RAISED calling rates in an era when technology & tech services prices are falling.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#55 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:01:23 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
muganda wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.

On this one, the hard truth is Airtel will always whine, the way an 'impoverished', 'disadvantaged', 'poverty-striken' one whines. Bandwidth and licenses are bought by entities and utilized to generate positive return on capital - alas in their case: no money to buy, no return when given.

Airtel would swagger proudly on KE telecom space if they made money.

One cannot pay for something they haven't been given. The LTE spectrum was only offered to Safaricom.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#56 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:08:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.


Dont believe the lies Airtel is spreading around. Airtel REFUSED to pay the licenses for the spectrum.

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
VituVingiSana
#57 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:30:31 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.


Dont believe the lies Airtel is spreading around. Airtel REFUSED to pay the licenses for the spectrum.


I don't trust GoK & its institutions.
Did Safaricom pay for the 4G/LTE spectrum it is running a trial on?

I recall the drama between the Ministry of Energy & KenolKobil. MoE [via KPC, KPC and KPRL] were favoring certain briefcase importers in the allocation of ullage. It was only after a severe/major shortage that the OMCs had a say in the management of ullage.

It turned out KK was right and why the court decisions [despite the attempt by a stupid judge, whose name escapes me, ruled in favour of KK over KPC and KPRL.

So my distrust for GoK (& institutions) runs deep. Look at the financial shenanigans at KPC, GDC, KQ, KPRL, NYS, KenHA, Treasury, EAPCC, NBK, Consolidated Bank, sugar firms, KPCU, etc.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#58 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:45:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.


Dont believe the lies Airtel is spreading around. Airtel REFUSED to pay the licenses for the spectrum.


I don't trust GoK & its institutions.
Did Safaricom pay for the 4G/LTE spectrum it is running a trial on?

I recall the drama between the Ministry of Energy & KenolKobil. MoE [via KPC, KPC and KPRL] were favoring certain briefcase importers in the allocation of ullage. It was only after a severe/major shortage that the OMCs had a say in the management of ullage.


Do you seriously think the GOK would say this in public to the Airtel crew including Merali and they just take it casually?

Yes i notice you dont trust Kenyans not only GOK alone anyway let me not digress
Business Daily Dec 4 2014 wrote:
Safaricom is betting big on the home internet market segment with the launch of an advanced fourth generation (4G) long term evolution technology to drive its data services.

However, he added that the firm paid $75 million (Sh6.8 billion) to the Communications Authority of Kenya (CA), for more frequency spectrum to enable it deploy new sites to cover 15 towns and, eventually, across the country.

“We have already paid $75 million to the regulator to acquire frequency in the 800 megahertz band, which they are yet to allocate us,” Mr Collymore added.

“We are expecting to be allocated the 2 x 15MHz (frequencies), which is the capacity currently available now. Thereafter we will get another set."


Nation June 12 2014 wrote:
Mobile phone service firm, Safaricom will pay Sh6.45 billion to have its application for a new spectrum approved.

According to the Communications Authority of Kenya director-general, Mr Francis Wangusi, this is only a tentative price and when the final price for the 4G spectrum is determined, the telecommunication firm will be required to pay the difference if it is more than the Sh6.45 billion ($75 million).


Airtel wants the spectrum for free

Business Daily Sep 2 2015 wrote:
Airtel Kenya has demanded a share of the 4G broadband spectrum allocated to Safaricom by the Communications Authority of Kenya (CA), arguing that it is unfair for the regulator to allow the dominant telecommunications operator to launch the high-speed Internet service ahead of its competitors.

The CA, in a gazette notice published on August 19, has said that it intends to issue Safaricom with a licence to operate on the 800HZ frequency, the technical definition for the high-speed (4G) Internet spectrum.

The licence could enable Safaricom to offer high-speed Internet to its customers, as well as broadband-based TV broadcasts.

The CA has said that any objection to the intended move should be filed at its headquarters within 30 days from the date of publication of the notice.

Airtel Kenya CEO Adil El Youssefi said in an interview Wednesday that his company did not agree with the process that was followed in allocating what it termed as the best 4G spectrum to Safaricom, arguing it would entrench the company’s dominant position in the telecommunications sector.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
watesh
#59 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 6:45:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/10/2014
Posts: 955
Location: Kenya
VituVingiSana wrote:
dunkang wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.

Though not a fan of SafCom products and exorbitant pricing, i am inclined to differ with you on this issue of 4G LTE licensing.

Airtel strategy to beating SafCom (and even making money) is whining and Crying. They need to stop that B.S and come up with super ideas like they did with UNLIMINET.

If you can't raise capital, forget about that business and concentrate on businesses you can afford.

3G is still largely unused, yet they want to rush to 4G.

Whining aside, the technology for LTE/4G offers a huge advantage [value] compared to 3G. It is better to spend $100mn on 4G than the same amount on 3G.

What worries me is that a dominant operator will start screwing us over. Safaricom is so confident about its market share that it RAISED calling rates in an era when technology & tech services prices are falling.

And it was a very right move look at the fat dividends we are banking lol...
VituVingiSana
#60 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 6:51:37 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Airtel has no LTE yet.
Hao bado wako 3G

GoK (CAK) didn't give the LTE bandwidth to anyone else except Safaricom. Airtel had to sue GoK/CAK to demand a share of the LTE bandwidth.
Safaricom is a sacred cow.


Dont believe the lies Airtel is spreading around. Airtel REFUSED to pay the licenses for the spectrum.


I don't trust GoK & its institutions.
Did Safaricom pay for the 4G/LTE spectrum it is running a trial on?

I recall the drama between the Ministry of Energy & KenolKobil. MoE [via KPC, KPC and KPRL] were favoring certain briefcase importers in the allocation of ullage. It was only after a severe/major shortage that the OMCs had a say in the management of ullage.


Do you seriously think the GOK would say this in public to the Airtel crew including Merali and they just take it casually?
Merali is not a significant shareholder in Airtel anymore.
*Start Sarcasm Font* You are right, GoK officials never lie or lied to us. GoK official never steal, don't ask for kickbacks. Their policies are for the best for the country. They never scam us. GoK controlled/influenced firms make above market profits thanks to their solid management and not monopolies or favors. Folks claiming Mobitelea belonged to GoK connected folks were just jealous of some smart entrepreneurs. *End Sarcasm Font*

Yes i notice you dont trust Kenyans not only GOK alone anyway let me not digress
Please digress.

Business Daily Dec 4 2014 wrote:
Safaricom is betting big on the home internet market segment with the launch of an advanced fourth generation (4G) long term evolution technology to drive its data services.

However, he added that the firm paid $75 million (Sh6.8 billion) to the Communications Authority of Kenya (CA), for more frequency spectrum to enable it deploy new sites to cover 15 towns and, eventually, across the country.

“We have already paid $75 million to the regulator to acquire frequency in the 800 megahertz band, which they are yet to allocate us,” Mr Collymore added.

“We are expecting to be allocated the 2 x 15MHz (frequencies), which is the capacity currently available now. Thereafter we will get another set."


Nation June 12 2014 wrote:
Mobile phone service firm, Safaricom will pay Sh6.45 billion to have its application for a new spectrum approved.

According to the Communications Authority of Kenya director-general, Mr Francis Wangusi, this is only a tentative price and when the final price for the 4G spectrum is determined, the telecommunication firm will be required to pay the difference if it is more than the Sh6.45 billion ($75 million).


Airtel wants the spectrum for free

Business Daily Sep 2 2015 wrote:
Airtel Kenya has demanded a share of the 4G broadband spectrum allocated to Safaricom by the Communications Authority of Kenya (CA), arguing that it is unfair for the regulator to allow the dominant telecommunications operator to launch the high-speed Internet service ahead of its competitors.

The CA, in a gazette notice published on August 19, has said that it intends to issue Safaricom with a licence to operate on the 800HZ frequency, the technical definition for the high-speed (4G) Internet spectrum.

The licence could enable Safaricom to offer high-speed Internet to its customers, as well as broadband-based TV broadcasts.

The CA has said that any objection to the intended move should be filed at its headquarters within 30 days from the date of publication of the notice.

Airtel Kenya CEO Adil El Youssefi said in an interview Wednesday that his company did not agree with the process that was followed in allocating what it termed as the best 4G spectrum to Safaricom, arguing it would entrench the company’s dominant position in the telecommunications sector.

Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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