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#OccupyHarambeeAve no more harassment!
Rollout
#41 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:06:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
I think we're missing the bigger point here; no Kenyan should be singled out just because of their religion. Just because terrorists happen to be muslims do not mean every muslims walking down the street should be a suspect; it's just wrong and I stand with my muslims brothers and sisters and any Kenyan of good will.
Njung'e
#42 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:14:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
All Muslims are associated with terrorists for the simple reasons that they never condemn terrorism.Show me 5 top Muslim leaders who have condemned Mandera!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Boris Boyka
#43 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:17:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Chaos outside Harambee House in Nairobi as goons attack group protesting over rising insecurity; Harambee Avenue inaccessible to motorists.

Tuko ndani, lakini nilinyoa ndevu jana so that @Boris won't recognize me while reporting and shooting pictures. My phone is mulika mwizi, haiwezimake!


Growing the beard is wajib for all males who are capable of doing so.

Mohammed (PBUH) said, “Differ from the mushrikeen, save the beards and trim the moustaches.”

Now when you destroy your beard what do you want?

@AlphDoti Haha hehe am back with your photos utajiona tu. I know hukunyoa Hiyo ni deception.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
Atalaku
#44 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:55:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 1,063
Location: Kenya
The owner of that bus company together with the turnboys and the driver should be investigated . Most of the timesmandera bound buses carry somalis...How did yhe terrorists know that tgere will be a large number of non-somalis? Bizzare.
Rollout
#45 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:05:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
Njung'e wrote:
All Muslims are associated with terrorists for the simple reasons that they never condemn terrorism.Show me 5 top Muslim leaders who have condemned Mandera!


Just because their leaders don't condemn terrorism do not warranta ssociating all muslims with terrorists. Just like I have been to a kyuk, kale and luo homes, I have been to muslims homes and I can tell you majority of them are normal families, like your family and my family, it's absurd that those muslims families just like my family and your family should go through constant harrassment, how can we all be happy when someone else, through no fault of their own, cannot enjoy the same freedom we do?
AlphDoti
#46 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:07:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Rollout wrote:
I think we're missing the bigger point here; no Kenyan should be singled out just because of their religion. Just because terrorists happen to be muslims do not mean every muslims walking down the street should be a suspect; it's just wrong and I stand with my muslims brothers and sisters and any Kenyan of good will.

@Rollout you've spoken like 10 men Applause

At the time of Noah, did people accuse him of bad things?
At the time of Jonah, did they lie about him?
At the time of Moses, did accuse him?
At the time of time Jesus, did people accuse him and attack him?
At the time of Muhammad, did the people labelled him with bad things?
At the time of all these prophets, did people load them as terrorist?
What did the people do at the time of those prophets?

All these prophets had done zero, they had done nothing wrong, but people were saying things against them. The people schemed, saying maybe this guy will do this or that so we must act against him. These were the kind of things they were saying.

But these prophets were always patient. They were not reactionaries.

So as we continue the teachings of those prophets, may God Almighty give us patience, to endure the slandering.
AlphDoti
#47 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:17:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Rollout wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
All Muslims are associated with terrorists for the simple reasons that they never condemn terrorism.Show me 5 top Muslim leaders who have condemned Mandera!

Just because their leaders don't condemn terrorism do not warranta ssociating all muslims with terrorists. Just like I have been to a kyuk, kale and luo homes, I have been to muslims homes and I can tell you majority of them are normal families, like your family and my family, it's absurd that those muslims families just like my family and your family should go through constant harrassment, how can we all be happy when someone else, through no fault of their own, cannot enjoy the same freedom we do?

I can attest to this, that majority of Kenyans who are non-Muslims are very tolerant of Muslims. I must commend them!!! Applause Applause

Majority of them know that Muslims are good people. They know that these bad things are planned by bad people. I understand the feelings of those who are bitter, I don't blame them, because what we are seeing on International media is only negativity about Islam, this has put in the minds of many that Muslims are bad people. But It is mostly propaganda. Sad Pray

symbols
#48 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:30:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
AlphDoti wrote:
Rollout wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
All Muslims are associated with terrorists for the simple reasons that they never condemn terrorism.Show me 5 top Muslim leaders who have condemned Mandera!

Just because their leaders don't condemn terrorism do not warranta ssociating all muslims with terrorists. Just like I have been to a kyuk, kale and luo homes, I have been to muslims homes and I can tell you majority of them are normal families, like your family and my family, it's absurd that those muslims families just like my family and your family should go through constant harrassment, how can we all be happy when someone else, through no fault of their own, cannot enjoy the same freedom we do?

I can attest to this, that majority of Kenyans who are non-Muslims are very tolerant of Muslims. I must commend them!!! Applause Applause

Majority of them know that Muslims are good people. They know that these bad things are planned by bad people. I understand the feelings of those who are bitter, I don't blame them, because what we are seeing on International media is only negativity about Islam, this has put in the minds of many that Muslims are bad people. But It is mostly propaganda. Sad Pray



Kaigangio's request

Who is harassing Muslims and how?
Alba
#49 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:43:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
I almost fell off my chair when I saw Alphadotis propaganda pie chart showing ati Jewish extremists commit more terrorism than Muslim extremists. Where did that piece of propaganda come from? Certainly not from the CNN article quoted.

Considering that Jewish extremism is concentrated mostly among settlers whereas muslims commit terror all over the globe, that pie chart must be a joke. And I am not pro-Israel or pro anything.

You can twist statistics to prove anything. so some context is needed.

It may be true that most acts of terror are not committed by muslims.

But most acts of terror in the name of religion are committed by muslims. Show me a study that proves otherwise and I will be quiet.

In Kenya, I would posit that most acts of terror period are committed by muslims acting in the name of their religion. That is until I see a study that proves otherwise.

Gordon Gekko
#50 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:48:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Njung'e wrote:
All Muslims are associated with terrorists for the simple reasons that they never condemn terrorism.Show me 5 top Muslim leaders who have condemned Mandera!

Show me ANY 5.
tycho
#51 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:18:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
I don't we can really say for sure which part of our global population comprises of terrorists because terror can be very subtle and almost invisible. There can be, and it's very probable that it actually exists, a kind of terror that kills millions per day but is generally unreported and unnoticed.

Can one really fight 'terror'? Can one fight a noun? It's the impossibility of such a task that drives us to find people who can fit as terrorists and as in many cases, demand creates supply.

Today I saw an article saying how the war against ISIL is encouraging more and more people to join the 'Jihad'. Let's be careful on how we tread.







AlphDoti
#52 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:42:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Alba wrote:
I almost fell off my chair when I saw Alphadotis propaganda pie chart showing ati Jewish extremists commit more terrorism than Muslim extremists. Where did that piece of propaganda come from? Certainly not from the CNN article quoted.

Considering that Jewish extremism is concentrated mostly among settlers whereas muslims commit terror all over the globe, that pie chart must be a joke. And I am not pro-Israel or pro anything.

You can twist statistics to prove anything. so some context is needed.

It may be true that most acts of terror are not committed by muslims.

But most acts of terror in the name of religion are committed by muslims. Show me a study that proves otherwise and I will be quiet.

In Kenya, I would posit that most acts of terror period are committed by muslims acting in the name of their religion. That is until I see a study that proves otherwise.

@alba I would understand your reaction. It is because of all the negative media propaganda which has brainwashed minds of many.

Quote:
According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.


NOTE: Al Qaeda was created by C.I.A

CNN: Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated

CNN: Extremists of any color or belief can commit terrorism

FBI: U.S. Department of Justice, Terrorism 2002-2005

PieChart: Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

Washington Blog: May 2013 Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil
symbols
#53 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:10:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
AlphDoti wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!!

Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won.

smile I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!!

The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving.

Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this
kiash wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
This is a sad case.

1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.

We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements.

why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear.

Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer.

Nothing different with you when throughout the thread you only see the problem with the victims when somebody is paid to do his work!!!!

Continue twisting facts, if calling upon Kenyans to be more proactive in the fight against terror is being a government apologist let it be so. One thing for sure and i stand by it is, that this war will not be won by changing personnel but by adopting a unified approach.

That's the keyword I've been trying to highlight to you 'unified approach'. Govt needs to make everyone a partner in this. That means you cannot afford to do blanket raids, because that will only lead to negative reaction from the innocent.


Quran 2:190-193 wrote:

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.


@AlphDoti - Does that apply to the mosque raids and is that the harassment you are referring to?
Muriel
#54 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:38:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
symbols wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!!

Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won.

smile I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!!

The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving.

Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this
kiash wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
This is a sad case.

1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.

We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements.

why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear.

Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer.

Nothing different with you when throughout the thread you only see the problem with the victims when somebody is paid to do his work!!!!

Continue twisting facts, if calling upon Kenyans to be more proactive in the fight against terror is being a government apologist let it be so. One thing for sure and i stand by it is, that this war will not be won by changing personnel but by adopting a unified approach.

That's the keyword I've been trying to highlight to you 'unified approach'. Govt needs to make everyone a partner in this. That means you cannot afford to do blanket raids, because that will only lead to negative reaction from the innocent.


Quran 2:190-193 wrote:

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.


@AlphDoti - Does that apply to the mosque raids and is that the harassment you are referring to?


The beard destroyer does not know that after hostilities were taken to the believers in the mosque it was only obedience to scripture that led to retaliation.
AlphDoti
#55 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:29:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
symbols wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Kratos wrote:
McReggae wrote:
@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!!

Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won.

smile I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!!

The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving.

Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this
kiash wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
This is a sad case.

1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.

We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements.

why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear.

Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer.

Nothing different with you when throughout the thread you only see the problem with the victims when somebody is paid to do his work!!!!

Continue twisting facts, if calling upon Kenyans to be more proactive in the fight against terror is being a government apologist let it be so. One thing for sure and i stand by it is, that this war will not be won by changing personnel but by adopting a unified approach.

That's the keyword I've been trying to highlight to you 'unified approach'. Govt needs to make everyone a partner in this. That means you cannot afford to do blanket raids, because that will only lead to negative reaction from the innocent.

Quran 2:190-193 wrote:

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.

@AlphDoti - Does that apply to the mosque raids and is that the harassment you are referring to?

@symbols nowhere does Islam says kills innocent people. If you find that, you can share with me.

Quran chapter 5:32 says "...if any one kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people."

Even during a war, the rules are clear that must be followed. Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) gave clear instructions about the behaviour of the Muslim army in a war. He said:
"Set out for Jihad in the name of Allah and for the sake of Allah. Do not lay hands on the old verging on death, on women, children and babes. Do not steal anything from the booty and collect together all that falls to your lot in the battlefield and do good, for Allah loves the virtuous and the pious."

Look at what Abu Bakr said:
"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, unless for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"
symbols
#56 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:07:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
@AlphDoti - The government intends to go on with the raids and the mosques are still closed.

Quran 5:32-34 wrote:

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


Are non-Muslims in Kenya no longer innocent because of the death of the young man,raids and closure of mosques?
AlphDoti
#57 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:24:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
symbols wrote:
@AlphDoti - The government intends to go on with the raids and the mosques are still closed.

Quran 5:32-34 wrote:

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Are non-Muslims in Kenya no longer innocent because of the death of the young man,raids and closure of mosques?

@symbol, you talk as if you're the president or deputy. It is up to the govt to open the mosque or close. It is up the govt to provide security, for you and for me, and for that boy who was killed by police, and for those 28 people killed in Mandera. It is the responsibility of the govt.

As regards the verse you have quoted. The keyword here is "LAND". Which means it talking about a state. This verse lays down the law for the crime of treason against the State. So in an Islamic State four options are laid down as punishments for treason, and any of the option is applied according to circumstances: 1. execution (cutting off of the head) or 2. crucifixion or 3. maiming (cutting of hand or leg) or 4. exile. These are the specification of the Criminal Law at that time and for centuries later.

In Islam, there is no torture as seen in the Canon Law (English Law) like piercing of eyes and leaving the victim to die. Tortures were abolished in Islam.

Quran continues to say in verse 5:34 that in the case of sincere repentance before it was too late, the person is forgiven as a sign of mercy. "Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
symbols
#58 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:52:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
AlphDoti wrote:
symbols wrote:
@AlphDoti - The government intends to go on with the raids and the mosques are still closed.

Quran 5:32-34 wrote:

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Are non-Muslims in Kenya no longer innocent because of the death of the young man,raids and closure of mosques?

@symbol, you talk as if you're the president or deputy. It is up to the govt to open the mosque or close. It is up the govt to provide security, for you and for me, and for that boy who was killed by police, and for those 28 people killed in Mandera. It is the responsibility of the govt.

As regards the verse you have quoted. The keyword here is "LAND". Which means it talking about a state. This verse lays down the law for the crime of treason against the State. So in an Islamic State four options are laid down as punishments for treason, and any of the option is applied according to circumstances: 1. execution (cutting off of the head) or 2. crucifixion or 3. maiming (cutting of hand or leg) or 4. exile. These are the specification of the Criminal Law at that time and for centuries later.

In Islam, there is no torture as seen in the Canon Law (English Law) like piercing of eyes and leaving the victim to die. Tortures were abolished in Islam.

Quran continues to say in verse 5:34 that in the case of sincere repentance before it was too late, the person is forgiven as a sign of mercy. "Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."


Yes,it is the responsibility of the government.I am interested in the consequences of their actions which you have neglected to address.

Muriel wrote:

The beard destroyer does not know that after hostilities were taken to the believers in the mosque it was only obedience to scripture that led to retaliation.


It seems so.
AlphDoti
#59 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:05:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
symbols wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
symbols wrote:
@AlphDoti - The government intends to go on with the raids and the mosques are still closed.

Are non-Muslims in Kenya no longer innocent because of the death of the young man,raids and closure of mosques?

@symbol, you talk as if you're the president or deputy. It is up to the govt to open the mosque or close. It is up the govt to provide security, for you and for me, and for that boy who was killed by police, and for those 28 people killed in Mandera. It is the responsibility of the govt.

Yes,it is the responsibility of the government.I am interested in the consequences of their actions which you have neglected to address.
Muriel wrote:

The beard destroyer does not know that after hostilities were taken to the believers in the mosque it was only obedience to scripture that led to retaliation.

It seems so.

@symbol, Islam condemns Mandera massacre and similar attacks.

"For this reason did We prescribe ...that whoever kills, unless it be for manslaughter or mischief in the land, is as if he slew all men." Quran 5:32

Read the entire verse:
Quran 5:32 are Muslims allowed to kill innocent? No!!
Quran 5:33 is punishment laid down for treason in Islamic state? Yes! Four otions availabel.
Quran 5:34 is there room for mercy? Yes!!! If you repent before the rulling is passed by the state.
@muriel's comment: are Muslims allowed to retaliate against innocent people? No!! Refer to 5:32
Who are those who retaliate against the innocent? They don't follow Islam. No room in Islam for harming any single innocent person.
symbols
#60 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:40:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
AlphDoti wrote:
symbols wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
symbols wrote:
@AlphDoti - The government intends to go on with the raids and the mosques are still closed.

Are non-Muslims in Kenya no longer innocent because of the death of the young man,raids and closure of mosques?

@symbol, you talk as if you're the president or deputy. It is up to the govt to open the mosque or close. It is up the govt to provide security, for you and for me, and for that boy who was killed by police, and for those 28 people killed in Mandera. It is the responsibility of the govt.

Yes,it is the responsibility of the government.I am interested in the consequences of their actions which you have neglected to address.
Muriel wrote:

The beard destroyer does not know that after hostilities were taken to the believers in the mosque it was only obedience to scripture that led to retaliation.

It seems so.

@symbol, Islam condemns Mandera massacre and similar attacks.

"For this reason did We prescribe ...that whoever kills, unless it be for manslaughter or mischief in the land, is as if he slew all men." Quran 5:32

Read the entire verse:
Quran 5:32 are Muslims allowed to kill innocent? No!!
Quran 5:33 is punishment laid down for treason in Islamic state? Yes! Four otions availabel.
Quran 5:34 is there room for mercy? Yes!!! If you repent before the rulling is passed by the state.
@muriel's comment: are Muslims allowed to retaliate against innocent people? No!! Refer to 5:32
Who are those who retaliate against the innocent? They don't follow Islam. No room in Islam for harming any single innocent person.


You are answering your own questions.

1.Who is harassing Muslims and how?

2.The second question is here.

3.You're insisting on the "innocent people".The verses I quoted don't specify what land.

If the government continues to raid and close mosques,are non-muslims in Kenya innocent?
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