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The Acorn Saga - Britam vs Cytonn
alma
#61 Posted : Sunday, November 02, 2014 2:12:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
After going through the posts here, I've come to realize that most are glorified employees with a car loan, great mortgage, company expense accounts etc type of living. That is why there is this support for stealing.

Because that's what it is. Stealing.

In other countries, these so called "entrepreneurs" would be singing songs of surrender. It is unethical to steal your company's clients. In many countries it is actually a criminal act. Your job contract would have some serious repercussions for trying something so shady.

I hope the criminals are taught a lesson.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Kagame
#62 Posted : Sunday, November 02, 2014 2:52:18 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 4/1/2014
Posts: 47
What was the money doing in new jersey.thought britam and equity are tight.why bank offshore for a local company,for local projects by local investors.my theory is the 'investment' money was banked there by Baam,for other purposes akin to CMC saga.the dande-kirathe just helped themselves before actual owners and they were confident not to have disappeared with cash.to me this smacks of a deal gone sore.i might be wrong but the stories going out are just but a tip of iceberg.
sparkly
#63 Posted : Sunday, November 02, 2014 3:48:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
alma wrote:
It is unethical to steal your company's clients. In many countries it is actually a criminal act. Your job contract would have some serious repercussions for trying something so shady.


In theory. But in practise, most people will work for clients they had a good relationship with while employed.
Life is short. Live passionately.
mv_ufanisi
#64 Posted : Sunday, November 02, 2014 8:19:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
alma wrote:
After going through the posts here, I've come to realize that most are glorified employees with a car loan, great mortgage, company expense accounts etc type of living. That is why there is this support for stealing.

Because that's what it is. Stealing.

In other countries, these so called "entrepreneurs" would be singing songs of surrender. It is unethical to steal your company's clients. In many countries it is actually a criminal act. Your job contract would have some serious repercussions for trying something so shady.

I hope the criminals are taught a lesson.

Unfortunately Kenya is an anything goes kind of place. Ordinary employees think it's okay to steal from their companies, civil servants steal without remorse from government. Some people think Dande and crew are heroes.
We have to restore law and order in our country by enforcing laws in a focused and disciplined way. This is a big reason why Kenya is so under developed and hit by multiple tragedies.
It's completely self defeating for a country to encourage looting whether in Mumias or in private companies such as BAAM. If this trend continues, someone will do something truly horrific to Kenya expecting to avoid punishment.
VituVingiSana
#65 Posted : Monday, November 03, 2014 2:17:03 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
Kagame wrote:
What was the money doing in new jersey.thought britam and equity are tight.why bank offshore for a local company,for local projects by local investors.my theory is the 'investment' money was banked there by Baam,for other purposes akin to CMC saga.the dande-kirathe just helped themselves before actual owners and they were confident not to have disappeared with cash.to me this smacks of a deal gone sore.i might be wrong but the stories going out are just but a tip of iceberg.

1) Who said it was in New Jersey? Please show me a link that claims in was in New Jersey. Note, you said New Jersey.
2) Off-shore accounts are common for investments through SPVs that may rely on foreign funding including loans e.g. TCL, Centum.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#66 Posted : Monday, November 03, 2014 2:18:42 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
mv_ufanisi wrote:
alma wrote:
After going through the posts here, I've come to realize that most are glorified employees with a car loan, great mortgage, company expense accounts etc type of living. That is why there is this support for stealing.

Because that's what it is. Stealing.

In other countries, these so called "entrepreneurs" would be singing songs of surrender. It is unethical to steal your company's clients. In many countries it is actually a criminal act. Your job contract would have some serious repercussions for trying something so shady.

I hope the criminals are taught a lesson.

Unfortunately Kenya is an anything goes kind of place. Ordinary employees think it's okay to steal from their companies, civil servants steal without remorse from government. Some people think Dande and crew are heroes.
We have to restore law and order in our country by enforcing laws in a focused and disciplined way. This is a big reason why Kenya is so under developed and hit by multiple tragedies.
It's completely self defeating for a country to encourage looting whether in Mumias or in private companies such as BAAM. If this trend continues, someone will do something truly horrific to Kenya expecting to avoid punishment.
Let Dande and Company go to jail. At the minimum, they have ruined their careers. Who will give them any cash (or new investment) knowing what they know now? Plus why give someone money to invest when they will spend a lot of time fighting lawsuits?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
2012
#67 Posted : Monday, November 03, 2014 10:50:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dande should not have bitten the hand that fed him.


Sad that these young guys are being punished for being ambitious and entrepreneural. But that is the nature of corporate warfare. I hope they have some counter they can pull to keep the old men quiet re Kiereini and Njonjo.
I disagree. I think what Dande & Company did was run their own firm on Britam's time. They should have walked away with a Rolodex + Reputation. Instead they walked away with funds gathered/solicited (not stolen) on Britam's dime. Fundraising requires time, money, reputation and patience. Even worse, they found the bride, negotiated the brideprice and then they eloped with Britam's bride. And the brideprice. And then rubbed it in Britam's face.

Others like David Owino [formerly of Centum] is doing his own thing but not with a Centum project.


If this guys moved money to other accounts while still at Britam then they're in some red hot soup. That's theft and Britam should prefer criminal charges against them, why they are not doing it and opt to sue, I don't know but it sure looks like there's more than meets the eye. This Dande team must have something on Britam.

BBI will solve it
:)
poundfoolish
#68 Posted : Monday, November 03, 2014 12:04:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dande should not have bitten the hand that fed him.


Sad that these young guys are being punished for being ambitious and entrepreneural. But that is the nature of corporate warfare. I hope they have some counter they can pull to keep the old men quiet re Kiereini and Njonjo.
I disagree. I think what Dande & Company did was run their own firm on Britam's time. They should have walked away with a Rolodex + Reputation. Instead they walked away with funds gathered/solicited (not stolen) on Britam's dime. Fundraising requires time, money, reputation and patience. Even worse, they found the bride, negotiated the brideprice and then they eloped with Britam's bride. And the brideprice. And then rubbed it in Britam's face.

Others like David Owino [formerly of Centum] is doing his own thing but not with a Centum project.


If this guys moved money to other accounts while still at Britam then they're in some red hot soup. That's theft and Britam should prefer criminal charges against them, why they are not doing it and opt to sue, I don't know but it sure looks like there's more than meets the eye. This Dande team must have something on Britam.


The guys moved money to Britam owned company... Acorn!Not their own pockets. And nobody moves billions without the board or top management knowing. 3.9 Billion is not cheap change bana.

Britam should just admit Dande and team have refused to make money for the board and decided to use Britam's money to make money for themselves and everybody else!
If the asset management arm 'invested' this monies to a Britam subsidiary. shouldn't they seat and wait for their money and profits?
Am
#69 Posted : Monday, November 03, 2014 2:14:26 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
poundfoolish wrote:
2012 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dande should not have bitten the hand that fed him.


Sad that these young guys are being punished for being ambitious and entrepreneural. But that is the nature of corporate warfare. I hope they have some counter they can pull to keep the old men quiet re Kiereini and Njonjo.
I disagree. I think what Dande & Company did was run their own firm on Britam's time. They should have walked away with a Rolodex + Reputation. Instead they walked away with funds gathered/solicited (not stolen) on Britam's dime. Fundraising requires time, money, reputation and patience. Even worse, they found the bride, negotiated the brideprice and then they eloped with Britam's bride. And the brideprice. And then rubbed it in Britam's face.

Others like David Owino [formerly of Centum] is doing his own thing but not with a Centum project.


If this guys moved money to other accounts while still at Britam then they're in some red hot soup. That's theft and Britam should prefer criminal charges against them, why they are not doing it and opt to sue, I don't know but it sure looks like there's more than meets the eye. This Dande team must have something on Britam.


The guys moved money to Britam owned company... Acorn!Not their own pockets. And nobody moves billions without the board or top management knowing. 3.9 Billion is not cheap change bana.

Britam should just admit Dande and team have refused to make money for the board and decided to use Britam's money to make money for themselves and everybody else!
If the asset management arm 'invested' this monies to a Britam subsidiary. shouldn't they seat and wait for their money and profits?


@Pound. Above makes a lot of sense.
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
muganda
#70 Posted : Monday, November 03, 2014 2:25:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,901
Cytonn Investments Press Statement

We, Edwin Dande, Patricia Wanjama, Elizabeth Nkukuu and Shiv Arora, are formerly the Chief Executive Officer, Head of Legal, Senior Portfolio Manager and Investment Analyst respectively, until we formally resigned as employees of Britam. In Britam's letters accepting our resignations, no issues were raised as to our competence and professionalism in discharging the duties assigned to us during our employment.

The rumours in sections of the media that Cytonn's bank accounts or any of its team members' accounts have been frozen are completely false and appear calculated and intended to shake confidence and trust in our new venture.

We believe that the Suit is filed in and motivated by malice, bad faith and intense business rivalry.

https://cytonn.com/news/press-statement
Realtreaty
#71 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 6:10:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,260
muganda wrote:
Cytonn Investments Press Statement

We, Edwin Dande, Patricia Wanjama, Elizabeth Nkukuu and Shiv Arora, are formerly the Chief Executive Officer, Head of Legal, Senior Portfolio Manager and Investment Analyst respectively, until we formally resigned as employees of Britam. In Britam's letters accepting our resignations, no issues were raised as to our competence and professionalism in discharging the duties assigned to us during our employment.

The rumours in sections of the media that Cytonn's bank accounts or any of its team members' accounts have been frozen are completely false and appear calculated and intended to shake confidence and trust in our new venture.

We believe that the Suit is filed in and motivated by malice, bad faith and intense business rivalry.

https://cytonn.com/news/press-statement

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly A thief is a thief even in suit, pen and laptop. Those who stole during Moi error (Era) can still be traced today and arraigned in court of law. Accepting a resignation is not a proof that they had been clean, infact they resigned after defrauding public equity. Its synonymous to those who rush to church kuokoka after embezzling millions and stuffing them in banks,say Patni Sad
Mainat
#72 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 7:34:27 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Its pretty clear even to the slowest of Wazuans that these guys have not stolen anything from Britam.
Unethical? Maybe, but that is the Kenyan way so should not be an issue for Britam to go to court.
Hence, I think this is just a business war to scare customers away
Sehemu ndio nyumba
mv_ufanisi
#73 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 7:48:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
muganda wrote:
Cytonn Investments Press Statement

We, Edwin Dande, Patricia Wanjama, Elizabeth Nkukuu and Shiv Arora, are formerly the Chief Executive Officer, Head of Legal, Senior Portfolio Manager and Investment Analyst respectively, until we formally resigned as employees of Britam. In Britam's letters accepting our resignations, no issues were raised as to our competence and professionalism in discharging the duties assigned to us during our employment.

The rumours in sections of the media that Cytonn's bank accounts or any of its team members' accounts have been frozen are completely false and appear calculated and intended to shake confidence and trust in our new venture.

We believe that the Suit is filed in and motivated by malice, bad faith and intense business rivalry.

https://cytonn.com/news/press-statement



This statement doesn't address the important issues that are raised.

1. Is there any credible explanation for the unethical business that happened? - apart from we stole our former employer's client and money that had been deposited by that client.

2. BAAM accepting resignation letters is a non-issue. Criminal acts could have been detected after they handed in their resignation letters which doesn't exempt them.


Any investor investing money with such an outfit needs a reality check.

These guys seemed to have done well for BAAM growing their portfolio in the past but their last action was very ill advised. Greed is a very short sighted animal.


mv_ufanisi
#74 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 7:51:16 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
Mainat wrote:
Its pretty clear even to the slowest of Wazuans that these guys have not stolen anything from Britam.
Unethical? Maybe, but that is the Kenyan way so should not be an issue for Britam to go to court.
Hence, I think this is just a business war to scare customers away


These guys have stolen a client from a former employer and also transferred money which we're assuming had been deposited by that client.

Said client and deal done on BAAM's reputation and resources.

If that's not a criminal act ... maybe I'm the slowest Wazuan.
murchr
#75 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 7:52:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
What did they steal?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Mainat
#76 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 7:58:01 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Proved my pt.
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Mainat wrote:
Its pretty clear even to the slowest of Wazuans that these guys have not stolen anything from Britam.
Unethical? Maybe, but that is the Kenyan way so should not be an issue for Britam to go to court.
Hence, I think this is just a business war to scare customers away


These guys have stolen a client from a former employer and also transferred money which we're assuming had been deposited by that client.

Said client and deal done on BAAM's reputation and resources.

If that's not a criminal act ... maybe I'm the slowest Wazuan.

Sehemu ndio nyumba
murchr
#77 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 8:02:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
Business Daily Dec 2 2011 wrote:
Deloitte cries foul over rival firm run by former CEO
Posted by VICTOR JUMA

on Friday, December 2 2011 at 00:00

A former CEO and executive of Deloitte have formed a rival registry company that has snatched clients from their former employer in what has raised concern over the enforcement of exit contracts.

Mr Daniel Ndonye, the former Deloitte CEO and Mr John Maonga, a former partner at Livingstone Associates, an affiliate of Deloitte, have formed Maonga Ndonye Associates that oversees corporate compliance and records.

In the two months of operations, the new company has bagged the contracts of 28 private companies and four others listed at the Nairobi Securities Exchange (NSE) — Total Kenya, East African Portland Cement Company (EAPCC), Kakuzi and Eaagads.

This has led to an uneasy relationship between Deloitte and the two partners of Maonga Ndonye Associates who it accuses of breaching exit clauses in which they committed not to establish companies that would compete Deloitte in the medium term.

“They committed themselves to refrain from setting up rival businesses after leaving Deloitte,” said Sammy Onyango, the chief executive of Deloitte East Africa. “We are not interested in legally enforcing the exit contracts and we shall leave it to their conscience,” he said.

Company secretaries register and communicate with shareholders, ensuring dividends are paid and maintain records, such as lists of directors and shareholders, and annual accounts. They also handle regulatory filings and other specialised services such as corporate restructuring.

Some Kenyan companies carry out these functions in-house while some outsource to one or two groups — a registry and a secretarial service provider. More private companies are increasingly outsourcing these services due to increased number of shareholders and corporate governance requirements.

The entry of the former Deloitte executives is set to heighten competition in the highly-fragmented registry markets where the big four advisory firms — Deloitte, PriceWaterhouseCoopers (PwC), KPMG, and Ernst & Young —have significant market shares through affiliates.

PwC has a partnership with Chunga Associates while Ernst & Young is affiliated to Africa Registrars. The relationship between the big guns and the affiliates is mutually beneficial since they share business based on expertise.

Charges are negotiated on a case by case basis but range between Sh10,000 and Sh25,000 per hour of an AGM or board meeting.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
alma
#78 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 8:17:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Yesterday we had a very interesting discussion with some investors from the land of Kiash. Topic: Why Kenya can only dream to be an economic powerhouse.

The problem: Corruption and the acceptance of corruption as part and parcel of business in Kenya.

This story came up. So we went to our archives to gather the terms of our contracts with our former employers.

My friends who want to cover for corporate bandits. This behavior would have have been crashed like an ant where I was. I know, since we crashed another ant that tried to pull one of these corporate raider antics.

We had this team of SEO's who went ahead and took our clients. With the same mentality I see on this forum. We got the lawyers to harass them in court. Who cared how long that case would go on. We then got all the "foolish loyal employees" still remaining to work a number on the so called sharp ones.

Within 3 months, they had lost all their clients and were busy looking for new jobs. We ensured that anyone who had internet had enough information about the caliber of employees they'd be hiring. Needless to say, everyone in that town honors exit clauses and respects his former employees enough to do the right thing.

I support Britam fully in this madness. They should not relent and should work on these corporate thugs with all they can muster.

Anyone who steals clients is a thief. Just because other thieves got away with it doesn't mean that they aren't thieves now. Its like saying that the bank robbers of the 70's who got away with it were not really robbers but entreprenuers since they were not caught.

If you want to run your own business, then start your own business. Don't go around driving your current bosses car to create your own name. You are worse than a prostitute and should be treated accordingly.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mv_ufanisi
#79 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 8:21:19 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
ultimately, it all depends on what standards you have. for me this doesn't pass the stink test.
Mainat
#80 Posted : Tuesday, November 04, 2014 8:34:44 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
The hypocrisy on show here is astounding especially when you see how this country is run.

Knowing what I know about Britam, I rest my case. No crime has been committed. As I said no crime has been committed legally. Unethical is part of Kenya's business and life dna. Whether we accept or not.
Sehemu ndio nyumba
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