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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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hamburglar wrote:Liv wrote:hamburglar wrote:masukuma wrote:so @hambuglar - are atheists smart coz they are atheists? or atheists coz they are smart? Atheists are just inherently smart, period. The moment you decide to become an Atheist proves you have superior reasoning capacity and most likely more intelligence than the average joe. Since i became an Atheist is my early twenties, i have never prayed or relied on a god or jesus or whoever theists pray to to help me in any way, shape or form. I have always used logic and reason to solve any problems i have ever faced and i hate to brag but i have found so much success living my life this way. I am successful, educated and live a very very happy and comfortable life without ever praying or stepping in church even once. I have also helped the less fortunate quite a bit and am still working on a project geared towards more of that. Riddle me this Masukuma. How come i and a bunch of my fellow Atheists seem to be doing so well in life while a lot of religious people i see everyday seem to be struggling? Remember, success and intelligence go hand in hand thus my initial assessment that Atheists are smarter people. See the correlation there?
A fool says in his heart there is no God. I am very glad to be that fool. By the way, this fool is living a full life. I live a very happy life, am educated, well off, well traveled and enjoy every minute of my life. So yes, i am glad to be the fool that says in my heart there is no god. Very very glad. I wouldn't have it any other way. Tell your god help the millions of poor theists who say there is a god in their heart. Very unfortunate how some people are brainwashed. Believing in God has helped me deal with many issues in life. People say I am well off too, I am highly educated, I am we'll travelled too. But all these things depends on your perspective only. Whatever you call successful may not be successful to somebody else. Probably if I said what I earn here, most people in wazua would think I am very successful, but there are people I have met who are more successful, if money is taken as a measure. Yet that does not bother me at all as I live my life with contentment as written in the good book.Believing in God helped me start and succeed in business that gives me joy to see successful people with families who work there for a living. There is happiness in seeing what an idea can do to lives of people. Believing in God has made me be helpful to other people too particularly poor people.
God gave us dominion over everything in the world. He gave us brains and minds to make things happen and change the world. He gave us the ability to discover, to create, and change our circumstances and succeed. He put in place systems in the world that make things work, the weather system, environment systems, the nature, etc, .... All these help us to live on earth. But there is a lot of work we as human beings can do to demonstrate the God given power to dominate the earth.
However a time comes when we must submit to him and pray. There are things beyond the strength, power and wisdom of human beings. There are times in my life when I had no peace and the only thing that helped is saying a prayer.
God is there and alive. Only a fool can think there is no God.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Liv wrote:hamburglar wrote:Liv wrote:hamburglar wrote:masukuma wrote:so @hambuglar - are atheists smart coz they are atheists? or atheists coz they are smart? Atheists are just inherently smart, period. The moment you decide to become an Atheist proves you have superior reasoning capacity and most likely more intelligence than the average joe. Since i became an Atheist is my early twenties, i have never prayed or relied on a god or jesus or whoever theists pray to to help me in any way, shape or form. I have always used logic and reason to solve any problems i have ever faced and i hate to brag but i have found so much success living my life this way. I am successful, educated and live a very very happy and comfortable life without ever praying or stepping in church even once. I have also helped the less fortunate quite a bit and am still working on a project geared towards more of that. Riddle me this Masukuma. How come i and a bunch of my fellow Atheists seem to be doing so well in life while a lot of religious people i see everyday seem to be struggling? Remember, success and intelligence go hand in hand thus my initial assessment that Atheists are smarter people. See the correlation there?
A fool says in his heart there is no God. I am very glad to be that fool. By the way, this fool is living a full life. I live a very happy life, am educated, well off, well traveled and enjoy every minute of my life. So yes, i am glad to be the fool that says in my heart there is no god. Very very glad. I wouldn't have it any other way. Tell your god help the millions of poor theists who say there is a god in their heart. Very unfortunate how some people are brainwashed. Believing in God has helped me deal with many issues in life. People say I am well off too, I am highly educated, I am we'll travelled too. But all these things depends on your perspective only. Whatever you call successful may not be successful to somebody else. Probably if I said what I earn here, most people in wazua would think I am very successful, but there are people I have met who are more successful, if money is taken as a measure. Yet that does not bother me at all as I live my life with contentment as written in the good book.Believing in God helped me start and succeed in business that gives me joy to see successful people with families who work there for a living. There is happiness in seeing what an idea can do to lives of people. Believing in God has made me be helpful to other people too particularly poor people.
God gave us dominion over everything in the world. He gave us brains and minds to make things happen and change the world. He gave us the ability to discover, to create, and change our circumstances and succeed. He put in place systems in the world that make things work, the weather system, environment systems, the nature, etc, .... All these help us to live on earth. But there is a lot of work we as human beings can do to demonstrate the God given power to dominate the earth.
However a time comes when we must submit to him and pray. There are things beyond the strength, power and wisdom of human beings. There are times in my life when I had no peace and the only thing that helped is saying a prayer.
God is there and alive. Only a fool can think there is no God. Your fictitious god didn't give you shit. All that you have done and achieved was through your own efforts. This god of yours helped you start and succeed in business but did not help millions others who tried the same business and failed? Is he playing favorites? How come he can't just help everyone succeed in everything they try? Does he enjoy seeing people suffer? Reason we can never see eye to eye is because you guys rely on faith to navigate the world while we Atheists rely on logic. There is no way we can agree so i leave you guys and your gods in peace. To each their own. I know what i know and i am very content with what i am? Am out.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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masukuma wrote:i used to think that atheists were a belief system but they are rather a rejection of belief system to my understanding. Atheists come in all shape an sizes - there are those who actually find benefit of religious rites. think about china and japan - possibly some of the most irreligious places on the planet but when the tsunami happened in japan - the japannese went through the rituals of taosim. I have seen what religion can do - not my religion but ile ya akina @Alphadoti. it organizes a society. I have talked to many an atheists and most of them agree that the organisation of religion works well for society - think about it even Napoleon said "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"... it makes sense!! tell the guys who are sweeping for the "mighty man of God" (supposed to be the "man of the Mighty God" ... but I digress). try making them understand that 'this is all they have" and that they are "f*cked! since they don't have trinkets and will never have anything" and you will have a revolution on your hands! antitheists like akina hambugler hapa have never really thought of that. p.s. there are antireligious people... believers in God but think religion has no place in our modern world. there are lots of atheists in our churches - they love the motions of religion. it gives structure to their lives but they really don't believe that there is a God. but they don't go around insulting anyone who believes of the same. Just wednesday this week I met a good friend of mine an atheist to the core!! he is kinda an antitheist but not a very insulting one (a mhindi who kinda thinks that we will have world peace when we get rid of all these religions). I couldn't miss the Richard Dawkin's book 'the God delusion' on the shelf!
so when I asked him - how is business and he said "it's been great we thank God!"... I did'nt want to ask more!! So there are just as many types of atheists as they are atheists! @HamBurglar we theists hatuendi mahali... it's not because we are stupid!! i am sure even in std. 6 i could explain the theory of evolution to you better than you know!! being a believer is a choice i made... a choice i decided to make a long time ago after weighing everything!! ama my arguments seem pedestrian to you? Masukuma. Why are you assuming that i believe in evolution? I don't believe in evolution just as much as i don't believe in creation. Until one or the other is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then it will always be a theory. What i know is that we are here now, nobody really knows how we got here so i will take advantage of the time that i am here and live my life to the fullest. Being an Atheist has afforded me the ability of living my life to the fullest. That is all i care. You only live once, if i die today, i will say i had a fulfilling life. You and your std 6 explanation of evolution which you claim is better than i know doesn't interest me because quite frankly, i don't give a shit about what your std 6 knowledge of evolution is because i don't care about theories that can't be proven. So chill out on the Richard Dawkins references, he might be a brilliant person but even he doesn't know the truth. How about that for pedestrian? P.S. My antagonistic tone lately has been intentional. I am tired of looking over my shoulder every time i hear some explosion, i am tired of living in fear of what these religious zealots might do next, i am tired of being checked by three watchmen every time i enter a supermarket, i am tired of living like a prisoner in my own country just because some stupid religions have low esteem about their gods and resort into a pissing contest which unfortunately turns out into killings and making my life insecure even though i have nothing to do with any of that nonsense. Get this, i don't and never had a problem with religion before. I understand tolerance, we have to be tolerant to that which is different from us be it color, creed, sexual orientation, religion and so on. I am a firm believer in living and let live. We all need to stay in our lane and mind our business, but when something infringes on my liberties, then it provokes my reaction. If religions could just worship their gods in peace, i would be the first in extending an olive branch and shaking their hand but as long as they continue to make my life miserable and risk my life everyday, i will say what i have to say about them which might not be very nice.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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The basic concept of religion is to misuse and control people. If our black ancestors had advanced written languages, wealth , technical influences and superior military; our traditions and religions might be the dominant way of life worldwide. work to prosper
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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hamburglar wrote:Your fictitious god didn't give you shit. All that you have done and achieved was through your own efforts. @ham allow me to give you a brief of our concept of God in Islam. Please allow me. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I just want you to see our point of view. Ok? Allah is the proper name for God, the Lord of the universe. He was not born and has no child, so we cannot compare Him to anything else. That is because He is Allah the maker and Creator of everything. He does not need to sleep nor rest. And that we cannot see Him yet He sees us (he own special way of seeing i.e. 'awareness'). And He knows every little thing going on in the heavens and in the earth. Allah is the most kind, the most loving. He has given us everything that we have. He gives us water, food, light, air and all that we need to live on this earth until the day we die. He gave us minds and hearts so as to see how much we are thankful through worshiping and obeying Him. So pleasing Allah with our faith and good behavior should be the main aim of our lives. We can only get to know Him through His own words and guidance to us. I will respond to the other below points laterhamburglar wrote:
- This god of yours helped you succeed but did not help millions others who tried the same
- How come he can't just help everyone?
- Does he enjoy seeing people suffer?
- you guys rely on faith to navigate the world while we Atheists rely on logic.
- i am very content with what i am
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:Mukiri wrote:mkeiy wrote:As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?
Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?
If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.
Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.
I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.
Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic.
The things of God belong to God. You are the size of a glass, He's greater than the Ocean. You'll die trying to fit the ocean into your glass. If Jesus Christ Himself suffered, and not for Himself, but for us... who are you to complain? Who am I? Infact we are told to rejoice in suffering!! There's the parable of seeds falling by the road-side, on rocky ground and on fertile soil, another on a house construction, boss ground yourself in the word. Find a good Church and go for lessons, sio Sunday sermon tu! Otherwise you'll be swept away. the problem of pain has been discussed by very many apologists - look it up! Love != Kind Good != Nice our understanding of the terms Love and Good are as imperfect as a circle drawn by a kid. Plus my personal faivorite - who told you God exists to ensure that you live a nice good life? it's not his responsibility kama Paul aliuwawa kwa kukatwa shingo na peter kwa kuHangiwa upside down - who lied to you that your portion is a good life? 200 million people died from the black death!! 1..2..3...200,000,000 people!! Where was God? He was God!! Tafakari hayo! You people, why are you against my wondering? Have you become god? Is it not God who says " Knock and it will be opened"? "Seek and you will find"? @mukiri and @masukuma, With all due respect, if you will let me wonder, because i've been wondering and that's NO SIN! So we shouldn't expect to live happy lives? And millions died of black death? So @masukuma, What was the point? Of what good? God as our father, i'm just a wondering child. @mukiri & @masukuma, Which god are you referring to? The one worshiped by Moslems? The Christian one? The Hindu one? As much as you all want to hide behind the simplicity of not wondering,its one complex labrynth out there. Of all the religions,with each thumping their chest "we are the righteous children" if ONLY ONE worships the the true righteous God, what of the rest? What did they say ignorance was? I need a glass of it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,274 Location: Kenya
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mkeiy wrote:...
@mukiri & @masukuma, Which god are you referring to? The one worshiped by Moslems? The Christian one? The Hindu one?
...
Of all the religions,with each thumping their chest "we are the righteous children" if ONLY ONE worships the the true righteous God, what of the rest?
What did they say ignorance was? I need a glass of it. @mkeiy just a little correction, and please take it positively. No need for you to be part of Wazua community and still make mistakes. Again and again we have corrected ourselves that all of us, whether Muslims or Christians or Hindus or Chinese or animals or plants, they have ONE GOD, the creator of them all. The same God, not different God. Name can be different but the same God. Just like a cow has different names in different languages, but it is still the same cow. What is the difference? It is other differences like is Jesus Almighty God? Does God commit murder to save people? What did the messengers of God taught, which is man creation and which came from God etc. The difference is while others adhere to the commandment of God 100%, others keep changing the commandment with time, based on situation. And it is not "Moslem", it is Muslim.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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mkeiy wrote:As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?
Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?
If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.
Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.
I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.
Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic. mkeiy wrote: You people, why are you against my wondering? Have you become god? Is it not God who says " Knock and it will be opened"? "Seek and you will find"?
@mukiri and @masukuma, With all due respect, if you will let me wonder, because i've been wondering and that's NO SIN!
So we shouldn't expect to live happy lives? And millions died of black death? So @masukuma, What was the point? Of what good?
God as our father, i'm just a wondering child.
@mukiri & @masukuma, Which god are you referring to? The one worshiped by Moslems? The Christian one? The Hindu one?
As much as you all want to hide behind the simplicity of not wondering,its one complex labrynth out there.
Of all the religions,with each thumping their chest "we are the righteous children" if ONLY ONE worships the the true righteous God, what of the rest?
What did they say ignorance was? I need a glass of it.
Finally, someone has decided to reason. The next thing you need to do is welcome the reality, the truth. The truth that "Religion is a fallacy. A lie. The longest running lie ever told by man to other men." Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:masukuma wrote:i used to think that atheists were a belief system but they are rather a rejection of belief system to my understanding. Atheists come in all shape an sizes - there are those who actually find benefit of religious rites. think about china and japan - possibly some of the most irreligious places on the planet but when the tsunami happened in japan - the japannese went through the rituals of taosim. I have seen what religion can do - not my religion but ile ya akina @Alphadoti. it organizes a society. I have talked to many an atheists and most of them agree that the organisation of religion works well for society - think about it even Napoleon said "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"... it makes sense!! tell the guys who are sweeping for the "mighty man of God" (supposed to be the "man of the Mighty God" ... but I digress). try making them understand that 'this is all they have" and that they are "f*cked! since they don't have trinkets and will never have anything" and you will have a revolution on your hands! antitheists like akina hambugler hapa have never really thought of that. p.s. there are antireligious people... believers in God but think religion has no place in our modern world. there are lots of atheists in our churches - they love the motions of religion. it gives structure to their lives but they really don't believe that there is a God. but they don't go around insulting anyone who believes of the same. Just wednesday this week I met a good friend of mine an atheist to the core!! he is kinda an antitheist but not a very insulting one (a mhindi who kinda thinks that we will have world peace when we get rid of all these religions). I couldn't miss the Richard Dawkin's book 'the God delusion' on the shelf!
so when I asked him - how is business and he said "it's been great we thank God!"... I did'nt want to ask more!! So there are just as many types of atheists as they are atheists! @HamBurglar we theists hatuendi mahali... it's not because we are stupid!! i am sure even in std. 6 i could explain the theory of evolution to you better than you know!! being a believer is a choice i made... a choice i decided to make a long time ago after weighing everything!! ama my arguments seem pedestrian to you? Masukuma. Why are you assuming that i believe in evolution? I don't believe in evolution just as much as i don't believe in creation. Until one or the other is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then it will always be a theory. What i know is that we are here now, nobody really knows how we got here so i will take advantage of the time that i am here and live my life to the fullest. Being an Atheist has afforded me the ability of living my life to the fullest. That is all i care. You only live once, if i die today, i will say i had a fulfilling life. You and your std 6 explanation of evolution which you claim is better than i know doesn't interest me because quite frankly, i don't give a shit about what your std 6 knowledge of evolution is because i don't care about theories that can't be proven. So chill out on the Richard Dawkins references, he might be a brilliant person but even he doesn't know the truth. How about that for pedestrian? P.S. My antagonistic tone lately has been intentional. I am tired of looking over my shoulder every time i hear some explosion, i am tired of living in fear of what these religious zealots might do next, i am tired of being checked by three watchmen every time i enter a supermarket, i am tired of living like a prisoner in my own country just because some stupid religions have low esteem about their gods and resort into a pissing contest which unfortunately turns out into killings and making my life insecure even though i have nothing to do with any of that nonsense. Get this, i don't and never had a problem with religion before. I understand tolerance, we have to be tolerant to that which is different from us be it color, creed, sexual orientation, religion and so on. I am a firm believer in living and let live. We all need to stay in our lane and mind our business, but when something infringes on my liberties, then it provokes my reaction. If religions could just worship their gods in peace, i would be the first in extending an olive branch and shaking their hand but as long as they continue to make my life miserable and risk my life everyday, i will say what i have to say about them which might not be very nice. What's the point for atheism when it still leaves you fearful, and what a cowardly way of dealing with the fear!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Tokyo wrote:The basic concept of religion is to misuse and control people.
If our black ancestors had advanced written languages, wealth , technical influences and superior military; our traditions and religions might be the dominant way of life worldwide. Religion isn't for controlling and misusing people, though it may be used for that. I wonder how many of us here are leaders, and whether they have thought about the broad spectrum of human nature. If one can understand human nature, then one can understand the role of religion. Otherwise, it's so easy for one to deceive himself.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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mkeiy wrote:
You people, why are you against my wondering? Have you become god? Is it not God who says " Knock and it will be opened"? "Seek and you will find"?
@mukiri and @masukuma, With all due respect, if you will let me wonder, because i've been wondering and that's NO SIN!
So we shouldn't expect to live happy lives? And millions died of black death? So @masukuma, What was the point? Of what good?
God as our father, i'm just a wondering child.
@mukiri & @masukuma, Which god are you referring to? The one worshiped by Moslems? The Christian one? The Hindu one?
As much as you all want to hide behind the simplicity of not wondering,its one complex labrynth out there.
Of all the religions,with each thumping their chest "we are the righteous children" if ONLY ONE worships the the true righteous God, what of the rest?
What did they say ignorance was? I need a glass of it.
As I said I believe in the supremacy of God. He made himself known to use using various ways (kinda sounding like a baha'i fellow?). Even in the bible it self (actually the bible never in itself claims to be the only way God communicated with man its a bunch of christians that threw some ancient writings together and called it 'the bible') in it's early books never made a reference to heaven or paradise... basically when you died you 'slept with your fathers' the heaven/paradise is a much later concept in middle eastern religions - even some really orthodox jews don't believe in the thereafter... but I digress!! I believe God made himself known to virtually all societies that cared to know! technically we all worship the same thing man! as long as you believe that there is a force out there that made the observable universe (how he made it is still being discovered and debated and some 'theories' have already been knocked out). While a christian - I don't believe in the concept of a personal God! A God who waits for me to wake up every morning and makes things work out for me! Whose sole purpose of existence is 'me' and making 'me' happy content and fulfilled <--- that is stupidity!! It's the christian worldview that calls God our 'father' (muslims scoff at that concept ya uzazi). So this is how I live my life - I do the best I can not to antagonise people (love them and treat them as I would like to be treated) and recognise the supremacy of God and make attempts at time to sway his will via the channel called prayer - it may work it may not work and I wrap it up with 'may your will be done' then I do my thing!! I don't wait until something happens if i can do it - then I do it! if it works I thank God if not...well it didn't work and if there is time and opportunity to correct... I correct it if not... I move on! God does not owe me anything more than he owes those people that died in the black death, the world war or the earthquake in new zealand some time back!! Halafu @Tokyo - stop staying in the past... "if black people" this and that... blah blah blah ... we are still here now. let's make it count!! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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mkeiy wrote:masukuma wrote:Mukiri wrote:mkeiy wrote:As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?
Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?
If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.
Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.
I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.
Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic.
The things of God belong to God. You are the size of a glass, He's greater than the Ocean. You'll die trying to fit the ocean into your glass. If Jesus Christ Himself suffered, and not for Himself, but for us... who are you to complain? Who am I? Infact we are told to rejoice in suffering!! There's the parable of seeds falling by the road-side, on rocky ground and on fertile soil, another on a house construction, boss ground yourself in the word. Find a good Church and go for lessons, sio Sunday sermon tu! Otherwise you'll be swept away. the problem of pain has been discussed by very many apologists - look it up! Love != Kind Good != Nice our understanding of the terms Love and Good are as imperfect as a circle drawn by a kid. Plus my personal faivorite - who told you God exists to ensure that you live a nice good life? it's not his responsibility kama Paul aliuwawa kwa kukatwa shingo na peter kwa kuHangiwa upside down - who lied to you that your portion is a good life? 200 million people died from the black death!! 1..2..3...200,000,000 people!! Where was God? He was God!! Tafakari hayo! You people, why are you against my wondering? Have you become god? Is it not God who says " Knock and it will be opened"? "Seek and you will find"? @mukiri and @masukuma, With all due respect, if you will let me wonder, because i've been wondering and that's NO SIN! So we shouldn't expect to live happy lives? And millions died of black death? So @masukuma, What was the point? Of what good? God as our father, i'm just a wondering child. @mukiri & @masukuma, Which god are you referring to? The one worshiped by Moslems? The Christian one? The Hindu one? As much as you all want to hide behind the simplicity of not wondering,its one complex labrynth out there. Of all the religions,with each thumping their chest "we are the righteous children" if ONLY ONE worships the the true righteous God, what of the rest? What did they say ignorance was? I need a glass of it. How refreshing to actually see someone has decided to reason. The way to emancipation and real liberation is when you start asking the question "why". You are on the right track my friend, keep seeking answers and sooner or later you will find out the truth.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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mkeiy wrote:
You people, why are you against my wondering? Have you become god? Is it not God who says " Knock and it will be opened"? "Seek and you will find"?
@mukiri and @masukuma, With all due respect, if you will let me wonder, because i've been wondering and that's NO SIN!
So we shouldn't expect to live happy lives? And millions died of black death? So @masukuma, What was the point? Of what good?
God as our father, i'm just a wondering child.
@mukiri & @masukuma, Which god are you referring to? The one worshiped by Moslems? The Christian one? The Hindu one?
As much as you all want to hide behind the simplicity of not wondering,its one complex labrynth out there.
Of all the religions,with each thumping their chest "we are the righteous children" if ONLY ONE worships the the true righteous God, what of the rest?
What did they say ignorance was? I need a glass of it.
Question,question,question.If you believe the truth is out there it might require an unburdened open mind of a child captivated by wonder.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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vky wrote:it is always all in the mind, Niccolo Machiavelli once aptly observed that there are 3 kinds of mind on this planet;
1. the mind that apprehends stuff on its own - the best mind to have
2. the mind that is able to apprehend a bit of stuff on its own but has to be taught as well - this is a good mind to have
3.the mind that can neither apprehend stuff on its own nor be taught - this is the worst mind to have
I personally do not tow the God line but unlike @hamburglar who has issues with God not acting in a certain way, my issue with God and religion is that going by religious antiquity predating the bible and christ, i have concluded that religion and God as known today is a refined work in plagiarized mythical beliefs of dark age civilizations buttressed by widespread blind belief over time.
My views on God and religion aside, one thing is indeed for sure that religion is a very powerful mental tool and when used correctly humanity will indeed prosper.
In conclusion when you choose religion to have a say in your life you must also accordingly evaluate which of the three minds above you fall under do you have the best, good or worst mind becuase these three minds will determine if you will be @hamburglar or @mukiri or @alshabaab or @makaburi or @those people who tuma mbegu to those spiv pastors.
peace.
Profound. As usual vky, you make a lot of sense. Unfortunately the message you are trying to convey will be lost in a lot of people. But i hear you loud and clear.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:masukuma wrote:i used to think that atheists were a belief system but they are rather a rejection of belief system to my understanding. Atheists come in all shape an sizes - there are those who actually find benefit of religious rites. think about china and japan - possibly some of the most irreligious places on the planet but when the tsunami happened in japan - the japannese went through the rituals of taosim. I have seen what religion can do - not my religion but ile ya akina @Alphadoti. it organizes a society. I have talked to many an atheists and most of them agree that the organisation of religion works well for society - think about it even Napoleon said "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"... it makes sense!! tell the guys who are sweeping for the "mighty man of God" (supposed to be the "man of the Mighty God" ... but I digress). try making them understand that 'this is all they have" and that they are "f*cked! since they don't have trinkets and will never have anything" and you will have a revolution on your hands! antitheists like akina hambugler hapa have never really thought of that. p.s. there are antireligious people... believers in God but think religion has no place in our modern world. there are lots of atheists in our churches - they love the motions of religion. it gives structure to their lives but they really don't believe that there is a God. but they don't go around insulting anyone who believes of the same. Just wednesday this week I met a good friend of mine an atheist to the core!! he is kinda an antitheist but not a very insulting one (a mhindi who kinda thinks that we will have world peace when we get rid of all these religions). I couldn't miss the Richard Dawkin's book 'the God delusion' on the shelf!
so when I asked him - how is business and he said "it's been great we thank God!"... I did'nt want to ask more!! So there are just as many types of atheists as they are atheists! @HamBurglar we theists hatuendi mahali... it's not because we are stupid!! i am sure even in std. 6 i could explain the theory of evolution to you better than you know!! being a believer is a choice i made... a choice i decided to make a long time ago after weighing everything!! ama my arguments seem pedestrian to you? Masukuma. Why are you assuming that i believe in evolution? I don't believe in evolution just as much as i don't believe in creation. Until one or the other is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then it will always be a theory. What i know is that we are here now, nobody really knows how we got here so i will take advantage of the time that i am here and live my life to the fullest. Being an Atheist has afforded me the ability of living my life to the fullest. That is all i care. You only live once, if i die today, i will say i had a fulfilling life. You and your std 6 explanation of evolution which you claim is better than i know doesn't interest me because quite frankly, i don't give a shit about what your std 6 knowledge of evolution is because i don't care about theories that can't be proven. So chill out on the Richard Dawkins references, he might be a brilliant person but even he doesn't know the truth. How about that for pedestrian? P.S. My antagonistic tone lately has been intentional. I am tired of looking over my shoulder every time i hear some explosion, i am tired of living in fear of what these religious zealots might do next, i am tired of being checked by three watchmen every time i enter a supermarket, i am tired of living like a prisoner in my own country just because some stupid religions have low esteem about their gods and resort into a pissing contest which unfortunately turns out into killings and making my life insecure even though i have nothing to do with any of that nonsense. Get this, i don't and never had a problem with religion before. I understand tolerance, we have to be tolerant to that which is different from us be it color, creed, sexual orientation, religion and so on. I am a firm believer in living and let live. We all need to stay in our lane and mind our business, but when something infringes on my liberties, then it provokes my reaction. If religions could just worship their gods in peace, i would be the first in extending an olive branch and shaking their hand but as long as they continue to make my life miserable and risk my life everyday, i will say what i have to say about them which might not be very nice. What's the point for atheism when it still leaves you fearful, and what a cowardly way of dealing with the fear! Dude. Everybody is afraid of getting a bomb dropped on them. Once again, you are talking without thinking. Am not sure if you are trying to jack up your number of posts but you almost never make sense to me. I said i was an Atheist, not Superman. Even Atheists are human, we have emotions like love, fear, pain etc, Atheism doesn't make us super human to where we are not afraid of anything in this world. Dude, WTF? What's with the silly questions?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:vky wrote:it is always all in the mind, Niccolo Machiavelli once aptly observed that there are 3 kinds of mind on this planet;
1. the mind that apprehends stuff on its own - the best mind to have
2. the mind that is able to apprehend a bit of stuff on its own but has to be taught as well - this is a good mind to have
3.the mind that can neither apprehend stuff on its own nor be taught - this is the worst mind to have
I personally do not tow the God line but unlike @hamburglar who has issues with God not acting in a certain way, my issue with God and religion is that going by religious antiquity predating the bible and christ, i have concluded that religion and God as known today is a refined work in plagiarized mythical beliefs of dark age civilizations buttressed by widespread blind belief over time.
My views on God and religion aside, one thing is indeed for sure that religion is a very powerful mental tool and when used correctly humanity will indeed prosper.
In conclusion when you choose religion to have a say in your life you must also accordingly evaluate which of the three minds above you fall under do you have the best, good or worst mind becuase these three minds will determine if you will be @hamburglar or @mukiri or @alshabaab or @makaburi or @those people who tuma mbegu to those spiv pastors.
peace.
Profound. As usual vky, you make a lot of sense. Unfortunately the message you are trying to convey will be lost in a lot of people. But i hear you loud and clear. I agree with vky! of course we have been around the planet for more than 6k years and one of the factors that kept human beings together soon after we stopped randarandaing all over and started doing agriculture during the neolithic revolution was religion. the institution of moral codes that guided society and the creation of laws that moulded us. of course the stories of genesis are borrowed from older sumerian stories... but just because they are borrowed do they become useless? religion in some places has been used to galvanize human beings - that world where @hamburglar wants to live where everyone knows that this is all they have got will be a very very dangerous one to live in! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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Whether extremists,rebels or terrorists believe their ideals or religion(s) are truth or made up doesn't change that fact that our laws are thought up and can be broken.
Who shall provide the instruction manual for will to ensure all laws are enforced?Who says we're supposed to live together or peacefully?Aren't these choices we make just like it is a choice on what will be done to those who stray from them.What are the consequences of that?Doesn't it speak to might makes right which is an argument that can be used by both sides?
All these seem to go back to deeper questions like what is life,it's purpose and truth.Can such answers be found for and enforced on others?"It's life" and I bear the burden of will and choice against a weight that might remain ambiguous.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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sasa hii kitu ya abdikadir ili kuja aje kuwa ya religion. hii ni kitu ya shabaab. pelekeni religion zenu huko mbali sana. LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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mkeiy wrote:masukuma wrote:Mukiri wrote:mkeiy wrote:As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?
Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?
If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.
Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.
I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.
Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic.
The things of God belong to God. You are the size of a glass, He's greater than the Ocean. You'll die trying to fit the ocean into your glass. If Jesus Christ Himself suffered, and not for Himself, but for us... who are you to complain? Who am I? Infact we are told to rejoice in suffering!! There's the parable of seeds falling by the road-side, on rocky ground and on fertile soil, another on a house construction, boss ground yourself in the word. Find a good Church and go for lessons, sio Sunday sermon tu! Otherwise you'll be swept away. the problem of pain has been discussed by very many apologists - look it up! Love != Kind Good != Nice our understanding of the terms Love and Good are as imperfect as a circle drawn by a kid. Plus my personal faivorite - who told you God exists to ensure that you live a nice good life? it's not his responsibility kama Paul aliuwawa kwa kukatwa shingo na peter kwa kuHangiwa upside down - who lied to you that your portion is a good life? 200 million people died from the black death!! 1..2..3...200,000,000 people!! Where was God? He was God!! Tafakari hayo! You people, why are you against my wondering? Have you become god? Is it not God who says " Knock and it will be opened"? "Seek and you will find"? @mukiri and @masukuma, With all due respect, if you will let me wonder, because i've been wondering and that's NO SIN! So we shouldn't expect to live happy lives? And millions died of black death? So @masukuma, What was the point? Of what good? God as our father, i'm just a wondering child. @mukiri & @masukuma, Which god are you referring to? The one worshiped by Moslems? The Christian one? The Hindu one? As much as you all want to hide behind the simplicity of not wondering,its one complex labrynth out there. Of all the religions,with each thumping their chest "we are the righteous children" if ONLY ONE worships the the true righteous God, what of the rest? What did they say ignorance was? I need a glass of it. OKEI, So you are lost and want to remain as such... and here we are the typical men who are trying to show you, what we think the directions are. Trying to solve problems. Pole sana, wonder in peace.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Mukiri wrote:Huyo mohamed wenyu ndio aliwadanganya. Do you hear anybody else going 'No other God, Joseph, Elijah, Moses, Paul, David, Solomon etc are His messengers?' You have to keep repeating the lie so as to believe it  Then explain how Jesus (as) said this before Muhammad (saw)?? John 17:3 And this eternal life: TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUE GOD, AND OF HIS MESSENGERS, EVEN JESUS CHRISTKnow your Bible!  Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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