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Breaking News!! Makaburi Dead??
guru267
#421 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 3:40:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri, you only live once dude. This is it, you don't get another chance. Do you want to continue waiting for a fictitious god to give you the desires of your heart or would it be better for you to just go out and get what you want?


They said: "When we are dead and have become dust and bones, shall we be resurrected indeed?

They said: "Verily, this we have already been promised, we and our fathers before (us)! These are only the tales of the ancients!"

Holy Qur'an


hamburglar wrote:
And i don't even want to go to heaven, i am in heaven right here in Kenya. So, you guys can give my mansion out there in heaven to somebody else because i will be in hell


Until, when death comes to one of them and he sees what he used to deny, then he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!"

Allah will ask: "Were not My Verses recited to you, and then you used to deny them?"

They will say: "Our Lord! Our wretchedness overcame us, and we were an evil people.

Our Lord! Bring us out of this; if ever we return to evil, then indeed we shall be wrongdoers".

Allah will say: "Remain you in Hell with ignominy! And do not speak to Me!"

Holy Qur'an


hamburglar wrote:
I know that i have thrown some low blows but i just can't help it. Some stories are too dumb not to be made fun of.


You took my believers for a laughingstock, so much so that they made you forget My Remembrance while you used to laugh at them!

Holy Qur'an


hamburglar wrote:
Well, if you want to continue being broke then suit yourself. you are wasting time praying and nothing is happening.


Indeed! I have rewarded the believers this Day for their patience, they are indeed the ones that are successful.

Allah will say: "What number of years did your race stay on earth?

They will say: "We are not sure. Ask of those who keep account."

Allah will say: "You stayed not but a little while, if you had only known! NOW FACE ETERNITY!

Holy Qur'an



Mboss your atheism is already anticipated by the Theists so feel free and enjoy all your earthly wealth and desires to the best of your abilities! Applause Liar Shame on you Laughing out loudly
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Siringi
#422 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 3:45:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/8/2013
Posts: 2,517
The president of the Supreme Court of Kenya rules...

"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
Siringi
#423 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 3:50:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/8/2013
Posts: 2,517
"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
Nabwire
#424 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 4:34:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Hamburglar which lies did I bring up? Did you read the article? The minute atheists start congregating regularly to sing and read inspirational books, that's religion. That's the logic I used to classify them as a religion. They may not believe in God, but they see the power of going to "church" regularly, where is the lie?
masukuma
#425 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 5:12:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
I believe in the supremacy of God!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
hamburglar
#426 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 8:50:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 887
Mukiri wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
Liv wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so @hambuglar - are atheists smart coz they are atheists? or atheists coz they are smart?


Atheists are just inherently smart, period. The moment you decide to become an Atheist proves you have superior reasoning capacity and most likely more intelligence than the average joe.

Since i became an Atheist is my early twenties, i have never prayed or relied on a god or jesus or whoever theists pray to to help me in any way, shape or form. I have always used logic and reason to solve any problems i have ever faced and i hate to brag but i have found so much success living my life this way. I am successful, educated and live a very very happy and comfortable life without ever praying or stepping in church even once. I have also helped the less fortunate quite a bit and am still working on a project geared towards more of that. Riddle me this Masukuma. How come i and a bunch of my fellow Atheists seem to be doing so well in life while a lot of religious people i see everyday seem to be struggling? Remember, success and intelligence go hand in hand thus my initial assessment that Atheists are smarter people. See the correlation there?



A fool says in his heart there is no God.



I am very glad to be that fool. By the way, this fool is living a full life. I live a very happy life, am educated, well off, well traveled and enjoy every minute of my life. So yes, i am glad to be the fool that says in my heart there is no god. Very very glad. I wouldn't have it any other way. Tell your god help the millions of poor theists who say there is a god in their heart. Very unfortunate how some people are brainwashed.

And likewise, I'm very glad to be brainwashedsmile


Mukiri, you only live once dude. This is it, you don't get another chance. Do you want to continue waiting for a fictitious god to give you the desires of your heart or would it be better for you to just go out and get what you want?

There is a reason you guys die poor (sorry to sound so insensitive) but it's because you are wasting time praying and nothing is happening. By the time you realize it, you are dead. We live our lives different. We go out and get what we desire because we know that praying is for the birds.

Well, if you want to continue being broke then suit yourself. I will be having dinner and cocktails at some exclusive restaurant tonight to celebrate the death of your make believe hippy son of your missing in action god. Lol. This is a sad state of affairs.

And i don't even want to go to heaven, i am in heaven right here in Kenya. So, you guys can give my mansion out there in heaven to somebody else because i will be in hell. Say hi to Jonah and tell him that i think he is a fraud. There is no way anybody can stay in a whale's stomach for three days and come out alive. Also tell Lazarus that i doubt he was dead Lol. Nobody can come back from the dead. And am still waiting to see another virgin give birth, so am still doubting if Mary was a virgin. And of course, tell Jesus, that we might run out of wine at pur party tonight so if he can hook us up by turning some water into wine, we would really appreciate it. Lol.

I know that i have thrown some low blows but i just can't help it. Some stories are too dumb not to be made fun of.

1. Die poor/broke etc? So your life is defined by trinkets?

For the most part yes. My life is defined by if am happy or not and by me having success and "trinkets", that makes me very happy. So yes, in the grand scheme of things, my life is defined by your so called trinkets. Trinkets (i don't even know what that means) make me very happy. Lol. I hope by trinkets you mean things like a nice home, nice cars, vacations to exotic places, fine dining etc. basically what everybody on this earth yearns for. Yes, i do love me some trinkets and so do you so stop fronting my friend, we all do like to have a good life.

2. Going to heaven? You reckon Christianity is all about the after-life? That there is no joy in the here and now?

Dude, your people are suffering. Majority of theists or religious people are suffering on this earth here and now. Stop burying your head in the sand. Frankly, i see a lot of religious people really struggling in life. A bunch. You will be lucky to see a broke Atheist. So yes, there is no joy in the here and now for maybe 90% of Theists. Which is very sad because life is supposed to be enjoyed.

3. Jonah, Lazarus, Mary and Jesus. You got itsmile If I do get to meet them, and remember, I'll pass on your message.

Please do. Tell them to skype me if they get a chance i would like to talk to them about some business opportunities in hell where i will be. I think we might be able to do great business in selling air conditioning units. I heard it's really hot down there. :)

Amazing how you want to have yours but don't want us to have oursd'oh!


I want you to have your thoughts, i just find them ridiculous. But they are your thoughts so you are very very much entitled to them.

Good reply.

1. Trinkets are things. Just because it defines your life, does not mean its the SI Unit of everyone else. Happiness, contentment, reason of living etc has been defined in many ways by different schools of thought. You prescribe to one, other people might prescribe to others. eg Mother Theresa would have probably felt pity on you (As I'd bet, you do on her)

2. Likewise, 'Suffering' Can be described differently by different schools of thought. Some may see your unending pursuit of vanity, holding your trinkets dear, mockery of what you perceive foolish, as an extreme form of suffering. As there's see the joy in long-suffering, selflessness etc. I'd bet Mother Theresa's example here, would also suffice.

3. Maybe you 'need' skype to communicate. To get to you, Jonah would probably hike a lift from the same whale, Lazarus would raise-up again on your a*s, while Jesus would appear to you in person. I don't know, I'm just saying.

I'm glad, you've voiced your last comment and can let us enjoy what we believe in peace.Applause smile



Mukiri, mother Theresa actually lived a more comfortable life than you and i and maybe 90% of the world population. You are confusing semantics here, mother Theresa was a bleeding heart, she wasn't destitute. Two very distinct differences. Just because the woman lived a humble life does not mean that she didn't have the trappings of comfort. Read a book dude, stop wasting all your time at kesha.

Whether you want to admit it here or not, deep down you know that you would love to have things in life that can afford you a comfortable life. We all do. It's time to give up the front. You religious people are so pretentious.
hamburglar
#427 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 8:56:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 887
Nabwire wrote:
Hamburglar which lies did I bring up? Did you read the article? The minute atheists start congregating regularly to sing and read inspirational books, that's religion. That's the logic I used to classify them as a religion. They may not believe in God, but they see the power of going to "church" regularly, where is the lie?


I have been an Atheist for many years and i have never been to or seen an Atheist church and neither have i ever seen or heard of any of my Atheist friends attending an Atheist church. Nabwire, let it go, you are trying too hard, Atheism is not a religion. Never have and never will be. Don't try to force issues. What exactly would we discuss in a "church"?Cmon man, let's not get carried away.
Mukiri
#428 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 9:10:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
Liv wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so @hambuglar - are atheists smart coz they are atheists? or atheists coz they are smart?


Atheists are just inherently smart, period. The moment you decide to become an Atheist proves you have superior reasoning capacity and most likely more intelligence than the average joe.

Since i became an Atheist is my early twenties, i have never prayed or relied on a god or jesus or whoever theists pray to to help me in any way, shape or form. I have always used logic and reason to solve any problems i have ever faced and i hate to brag but i have found so much success living my life this way. I am successful, educated and live a very very happy and comfortable life without ever praying or stepping in church even once. I have also helped the less fortunate quite a bit and am still working on a project geared towards more of that. Riddle me this Masukuma. How come i and a bunch of my fellow Atheists seem to be doing so well in life while a lot of religious people i see everyday seem to be struggling? Remember, success and intelligence go hand in hand thus my initial assessment that Atheists are smarter people. See the correlation there?



A fool says in his heart there is no God.



I am very glad to be that fool. By the way, this fool is living a full life. I live a very happy life, am educated, well off, well traveled and enjoy every minute of my life. So yes, i am glad to be the fool that says in my heart there is no god. Very very glad. I wouldn't have it any other way. Tell your god help the millions of poor theists who say there is a god in their heart. Very unfortunate how some people are brainwashed.

And likewise, I'm very glad to be brainwashedsmile


Mukiri, you only live once dude. This is it, you don't get another chance. Do you want to continue waiting for a fictitious god to give you the desires of your heart or would it be better for you to just go out and get what you want?

There is a reason you guys die poor (sorry to sound so insensitive) but it's because you are wasting time praying and nothing is happening. By the time you realize it, you are dead. We live our lives different. We go out and get what we desire because we know that praying is for the birds.

Well, if you want to continue being broke then suit yourself. I will be having dinner and cocktails at some exclusive restaurant tonight to celebrate the death of your make believe hippy son of your missing in action god. Lol. This is a sad state of affairs.

And i don't even want to go to heaven, i am in heaven right here in Kenya. So, you guys can give my mansion out there in heaven to somebody else because i will be in hell. Say hi to Jonah and tell him that i think he is a fraud. There is no way anybody can stay in a whale's stomach for three days and come out alive. Also tell Lazarus that i doubt he was dead Lol. Nobody can come back from the dead. And am still waiting to see another virgin give birth, so am still doubting if Mary was a virgin. And of course, tell Jesus, that we might run out of wine at pur party tonight so if he can hook us up by turning some water into wine, we would really appreciate it. Lol.

I know that i have thrown some low blows but i just can't help it. Some stories are too dumb not to be made fun of.

1. Die poor/broke etc? So your life is defined by trinkets?

For the most part yes. My life is defined by if am happy or not and by me having success and "trinkets", that makes me very happy. So yes, in the grand scheme of things, my life is defined by your so called trinkets. Trinkets (i don't even know what that means) make me very happy. Lol. I hope by trinkets you mean things like a nice home, nice cars, vacations to exotic places, fine dining etc. basically what everybody on this earth yearns for. Yes, i do love me some trinkets and so do you so stop fronting my friend, we all do like to have a good life.

2. Going to heaven? You reckon Christianity is all about the after-life? That there is no joy in the here and now?

Dude, your people are suffering. Majority of theists or religious people are suffering on this earth here and now. Stop burying your head in the sand. Frankly, i see a lot of religious people really struggling in life. A bunch. You will be lucky to see a broke Atheist. So yes, there is no joy in the here and now for maybe 90% of Theists. Which is very sad because life is supposed to be enjoyed.

3. Jonah, Lazarus, Mary and Jesus. You got itsmile If I do get to meet them, and remember, I'll pass on your message.

Please do. Tell them to skype me if they get a chance i would like to talk to them about some business opportunities in hell where i will be. I think we might be able to do great business in selling air conditioning units. I heard it's really hot down there. :)

Amazing how you want to have yours but don't want us to have oursd'oh!


I want you to have your thoughts, i just find them ridiculous. But they are your thoughts so you are very very much entitled to them.

Good reply.

1. Trinkets are things. Just because it defines your life, does not mean its the SI Unit of everyone else. Happiness, contentment, reason of living etc has been defined in many ways by different schools of thought. You prescribe to one, other people might prescribe to others. eg Mother Theresa would have probably felt pity on you (As I'd bet, you do on her)

2. Likewise, 'Suffering' Can be described differently by different schools of thought. Some may see your unending pursuit of vanity, holding your trinkets dear, mockery of what you perceive foolish, as an extreme form of suffering. As there's see the joy in long-suffering, selflessness etc. I'd bet Mother Theresa's example here, would also suffice.

3. Maybe you 'need' skype to communicate. To get to you, Jonah would probably hike a lift from the same whale, Lazarus would raise-up again on your a*s, while Jesus would appear to you in person. I don't know, I'm just saying.

I'm glad, you've voiced your last comment and can let us enjoy what we believe in peace.Applause smile



Mukiri, mother Theresa actually lived a more comfortable life than you and i and maybe 90% of the world population. You are confusing semantics here, mother Theresa was a bleeding heart, she wasn't destitute. Two very distinct differences. Just because the woman lived a humble life does not mean that she didn't have the trappings of comfort. Read a book dude, stop wasting all your time at kesha.

Whether you want to admit it here or not, deep down you know that you would love to have things in life that can afford you a comfortable life. We all do. It's time to give up the front. You religious people are so pretentious.

hehehe.. Kwanza you remind me that I didn't make it for our last keshaSad

Since you are so ok with the way Mother Theresa lived her life, with 'trappings of comfort'... would you trade of what you have and live like she did?

Dude, why are you so quick to judge, or are you literary one? I mean, without even knowing me, you perceive of what I want? Even go as far as calling me/us pretentious? Fronting?

I'm comforted that it is not you, as I, a mortal man, who decides what life should be like, for everyone else.Pray

Proverbs 19:21
Mukiri
#429 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 9:13:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Siringi wrote:

Applause Applause Applause The God of Muslims and hamburglar is also my Godsmile

Proverbs 19:21
mkeiy
#430 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 10:30:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?

Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?

If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.

Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.

I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.

Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic.
Mukiri
#431 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 10:38:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
mkeiy wrote:
As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?

Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?

If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.

Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.

I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.

Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic.

The things of God belong to God.

You are the size of a glass, He's greater than the Ocean. You'll die trying to fit the ocean into your glass.

If Jesus Christ Himself suffered, and not for Himself, but for us... who are you to complain? Who am I? Infact we are told to rejoice in suffering!!

There's the parable of seeds falling by the road-side, on rocky ground and on fertile soil, another on a house construction, boss ground yourself in the word. Find a good Church and go for lessons, sio Sunday sermon tu! Otherwise you'll be swept away.

Proverbs 19:21
Ngong
#432 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 10:50:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 1,461
Location: Ngong Forest
Hi ni mambo ya grouping tu!, islam,christian,jaluo, atheist,kykus and each one saying they are the best unlike the other.
Bure kabisa!
masukuma
#433 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 11:01:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Mukiri wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?

Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?

If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.

Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.

I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.

Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic.

The things of God belong to God.

You are the size of a glass, He's greater than the Ocean. You'll die trying to fit the ocean into your glass.

If Jesus Christ Himself suffered, and not for Himself, but for us... who are you to complain? Who am I? Infact we are told to rejoice in suffering!!

There's the parable of seeds falling by the road-side, on rocky ground and on fertile soil, another on a house construction, boss ground yourself in the word. Find a good Church and go for lessons, sio Sunday sermon tu! Otherwise you'll be swept away.

the problem of pain has been discussed by very many apologists - look it up!
Love != Kind
Good != Nice
our understanding of the terms Love and Good are as imperfect as a circle drawn by a kid. Plus my personal faivorite - who told you God exists to ensure that you live a nice good life? it's not his responsibility kama Paul aliuwawa kwa kukatwa shingo na peter kwa kuHangiwa upside down - who lied to you that your portion is a good life?
200 million people died from the black death!! 1..2..3...200,000,000 people!! Where was God? He was God!! Tafakari hayo!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#434 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 11:08:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Mukiri wrote:
Siringi wrote:

Applause Applause Applause The God of Muslims and hamburglar is also my Godsmile

@mukiri I'm glad you realized it today that there's only one creator for the whole universe, same God of Muslims (Allah in Arabic, God in Eng, Mungu in Swa), of Christians, of Hindus, of Atheist. The difference is the concept of God.

I'm also glad that you know Muhammad (s.a.w) is not God of Muslims. He as just a man. He was born. He lived. He married. He died and he was buried. No one worships him. Muslims just say "NO GOD BUT ALLAH, MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER". Muslims don't say Muhammad (pbuh) is God.

So please remember in your future reference. Teach your heart to be sincere.
AlphDoti
#435 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 11:13:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
And for those who say there is no God, I don't curse them. I'll never curse them. Because they say this out if ignorance. Maybe some of them will believe one day, we never know. So I pray to God that one day they see the logic, and not worship here Gods but ONE, the Creator of whole universe.

You see the soul that was created by Allah cannot be happy without the one who created it. These people are miserable that's why they spend in bar, football. because how you wake in the morning and the one who gave you food, water etc you forget, then you thank someone else!!!!
Mukiri
#436 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 11:46:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
AlphDoti wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
Siringi wrote:

Applause Applause Applause The God of Muslims and hamburglar is also my Godsmile

@mukiri I'm glad you realized it today that there's only one creator for the whole universe, same God of Muslims (Allah in Arabic, God in Eng, Mungu in Swa), of Christians, of Hindus, of Atheist. The difference is the concept of God.

I'm also glad that you know Muhammad (s.a.w) is not God of Muslims. He as just a man. He was born. He lived. He married. He died and he was buried. No one worships him. Muslims just say "NO GOD BUT ALLAH, MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER". Muslims don't say Muhammad (pbuh) is God.

So please remember in your future reference. Teach your heart to be sincere.

I realized this a long time ago and it is you who needs to teach your heart, so that you and your kind can stop terrorizing other God's creations. Huyo mohamed wenyu ndio aliwadanganya. Do you hear anybody else going 'No other God, Joseph, Elijah, Moses, Paul, David, Solomon etc are His messengers?' You have to keep repeating the lie so as to believe itSad

Proverbs 19:21
Nabwire
#437 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2014 11:57:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
I think that I'm wrongly being put in a category that I don't belong to. I don't consider myself religious, I believe in God but I don't believe in blindly following a religion and its dogma. I don't identify myself as exclusively Catholic, or Protestant or Baptist, thus I wouldn't consider myself capable of answering the questions being posed to me. I believe in God, but at the same time I know that religion is a human invention made to control people, note that religion and God are two very different things. Man has used God to further his own selfish motives, through religion, this doesn't mean that God does not exist, it just means that man can be evil.Thus blaming God for suffering children in Turkana or Afghanistan is insincere, because man created those situations to begin with. I read the Bible, just as you would read an interesting book, because I know that majority of the Bible was written by human beings, some of whom had motives of controlling masses of people. This doesn't mean that the Bible is not genuine, I use it as a guide to life but I don't interpret it literally. I was initially drawn into this fray because I wanted to point out the false assertions that Islam uses to achieve its goals. I am not interested in say converting AlphDoti, but at the same time I wouldn't just let lies be preached. I'm glad that AlphDoti has pointed out that there is only one God, yet in the same stance his religion will call non Muslims mushriks or kaffirs. This is a direct contradiction of AlphDoti stating that we all worship one God, because these connotations imply that we are lost just because we are not Muslim. That was my initial beef with Islam, if they would just let us be and let us go to their definition of hell because we are not Muslims, I would be very content! But trying to force your religion on others through deceit and intimidation is wrong. That's why I was initially drawn into this conversation, and would now like to retire from it.
symbols
#438 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2014 12:20:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
@hamburglar - I won't engage on God,good,bad and law as I already have before.

Having faith just like having hope doesn't mean not using reasoning or logic.On the same issue,emotions can cloud reasoning and logic.Of what use is hope,empathy and morals or did you mean reason and logic should be employed to pursue the desires of the heart?

You speak of a unsafe world caused by the actions of theists yet you want to thump some sense into theists or watch ourselves us kill each other off.What's the logic in tolerating us or trying to 'convert' us? What if the desires still lead to an unsafe world?

You've relied on wealth and comfortable living to define success.It is a fact that your success is also dependent on the "80%" theists suffering and remaining ignorant.What is the logic behind trying to change that?

You also claim atheists are smarter,more educated,have superior reasoning capacity and more progressive.Why are you trying to engage in less progressive behaviors associated with theists? How much of the development in reason,logic and science that you rely on has been influenced by theists?

What is your definition of a full life? Earlier this year scientists were claiming that quantum theory proves consciousness moves on to another universe after death.How will that affect atheists?
masukuma
#439 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2014 12:20:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
i used to think that atheists were a belief system but they are rather a rejection of belief system to my understanding. Atheists come in all shape an sizes - there are those who actually find benefit of religious rites. think about china and japan - possibly some of the most irreligious places on the planet but when the tsunami happened in japan - the japannese went through the rituals of taosim. I have seen what religion can do - not my religion but ile ya akina @Alphadoti. it organizes a society. I have talked to many an atheists and most of them agree that the organisation of religion works well for society - think about it even Napoleon said "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"... it makes sense!! tell the guys who are sweeping for the "mighty man of God" (supposed to be the "man of the Mighty God" ... but I digress). try making them understand that 'this is all they have" and that they are "f*cked! since they don't have trinkets and will never have anything" and you will have a revolution on your hands! antitheists like akina hambugler hapa have never really thought of that. p.s. there are antireligious people... believers in God but think religion has no place in our modern world. there are lots of atheists in our churches - they love the motions of religion. it gives structure to their lives but they really don't believe that there is a God. but they don't go around insulting anyone who believes of the same. Just wednesday this week I met a good friend of mine an atheist to the core!! he is kinda an antitheist but not a very insulting one (a mhindi who kinda thinks that we will have world peace when we get rid of all these religions). I couldn't miss the Richard Dawkin's book 'the God delusion' on the shelf!
so when I asked him - how is business and he said "it's been great we thank God!"... I did'nt want to ask more!! So there are just as many types of atheists as they are atheists! @HamBurglar we theists hatuendi mahali... it's not because we are stupid!! i am sure even in std. 6 i could explain the theory of evolution to you better than you know!! being a believer is a choice i made... a choice i decided to make a long time ago after weighing everything!! ama my arguments seem pedestrian to you?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#440 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2014 12:28:56 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
mkeiy wrote:
As a believer, it really bothers me. Seeing a lot of suffering. The sort you see in places like Turkana,of small children,innocent ones you may say. No rains,yet God,our Father can make it happen. Yet according to the holy books,He can't because it was written. Written because of war between God and and Satan. Are those kids not innocent?

Yet when @hamburglar wonders,instead of us believers trying reason we try hanging him. Someone explain the Turkana/Congo kid difficult situation in a logical manner. @mukiri. @tycho. @nabwire. Someone take the cue,why all the suffering with no action? For whose benefit do they suffer? What difference does it make if they suffer?

If because it was written hence no quick fixes,at the end if it all,what would be the point of creating the world and man ,have so much suffering,then to cap it, a full hell and an "empty" heaven? Create ,see so much suffering, then throw majority into jail. End of story.

Then what? Somebody explain that to me. As it is,sinners are so many,i know no sinless man.

I hope one day i will get answer from God Himself. He is my Father,i guess He will grant hearing to His children. Because i don't like the way atheists live a fulfilling life with believers suffering left right and center, with no guarantee of stepping in heaven. Hunger,disease, strife etc.

Lastly,how many are sure of getting to heaven? Be forewarned because it would offend God for you to try impressing the wazua republic.


Suffering isn't in Turkana, and neither is it in not being able to buy things; but is in the mind. It arises when the mind, in consciousness, chooses to overcome, or avoid its 'present' experience for another, and the means of doing so are not found or known.

Myself I have suffered, and that's why, and how I have suffered. When I say someone is suffering, I mean the same thing. Suffering is something that goes beyond innocence.

Suffering is conquerable, and its conquest is sweet. Like illumination. In fact, illumination conquers suffering.

Heaven and illumination are one, and if one will get there depends on ones capacity for suffering. Generally, the more the suffering, the greater the light.
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