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Kikuyus, Please Come (Here)
simonkabz
#61 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:08:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Wakanyugi wrote:
simonkabz wrote:


If you want to learn Qyuk, read this post SLOWLY. A perfect summery.


Thimeoni: you are the one who needs to read the post again, very slowly. It is full of errors. For instance, the 'b'as in baba is not equivalent to 'f'- fafa. Never ever.


From where I cometh, and the majority of gikuyus that I know, and from my elementary classes, that is how we pronounce. Siringi n the clown so far have given good gikuyu lessons.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
seppuku
#62 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:09:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
Wakanyugi wrote:
The Clown wrote:
I decided to post on this thread when I saw @seppuku parading his ignorance in public.

FYI there IS a Gikuyu alphabet. Just as there are English, French, Mandarin, Maragoli and Nandi ones.

I am one of those who studied in a native tongue in primary school so I happen to know a little about the language.


Forgive my bluntness, but you are the one parading your ignorance, my friend.

The Gikuyu language is written using the Latin alphabet, as are many other languages.

If you studied language as you claim, I am sure you would know that what is under discussion here is not the alphabet but the orthography of the Gikuyu language.

I believe the orthography of Gikuyu was set by Italian Missionaries, and later revised by the Irish and Scottish priests - at least I vaguely recall either Cannon Cagnolo or Whitely writing as much.

This could explain how we came to inherit some Mediterranean vowels and consonants, like the bilabial fricative, 'b' in 'baba' - similar to the Spanish 'v' sound in say, Valencia, instead of the more common 'labial dental 'f'.

Another example is the 'w' vowel sound as in Wainaina. If the French had done the Gikuyu orthography this would be written Ouainanina.

Similarly nasal sounds like 'n' in Njeri, 'm' in Mbuthia, 'ny' as in Nyambura, the soft 'ng' in Ng'ang'a (or its hard variant), would have been lost if say the the Gikuyu orthography had been based on English (they don't have these sounds).

As for the ũ and ĩ, that one I leave to other experts. In fact Kenyatta tried to change this, for 'o' and 'e' respectively as it makes more sense. Clearly it didn't take.

Regarding the difference in pronunciation there two Bantu language families, the 'ba' and the 'wa' family (I am plagiarizing Ochieng here) - owing to the influence of past migratory direction, time of arrival and consonant drift.

Gikuyu, Kikamba, Swahili ( I think all Bantu languages on the Eastern seaboard) belong to the 'wa' family, which is why the people of Kenya are called, Wakenya, not Bakenya.

By the way consonant drift provides persuasive proof that Gikuyu is a derivative of Kikamba. In fact the Gikuyu tribe is a recent creation - as recent as 200 years ago - created for 'political' reasons. (Some of the bigots from Nyumba ya Muumbi and elsewhere need to remember this).

We are seeing a similar process of 'political' amalgamation among the Luyia and the Kalenjin today (the reverse process, as with the Miji Kenda, is more common). How this will influence the language remains to be seen.

But I digress.

@The clown, if you are pissed off, I challenge you to insult me in proto-Bantu.


The 'e' and 'o', would they really make more sense than the 'í' and 'ú'? I think not. Consider a word like ríene i.e. belonging to some one else. E.g. Ibuku ríene. Writing that as ibuku reene would completely mess up the proper Kikuyu pronunciation. Excuse the fact that I use the acute diacritic on the í's and ú's instead of tildes because I can't figure out how to type tilde-d characters on my keyboard.
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
AlphDoti
#63 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:13:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Change of subject Applause Applause
simonkabz
#64 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:16:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
That new title is even more misleading.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Magigi
#65 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:20:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
simonkabz wrote:
That new title is even more misleading.

Bro...Niaje...Long time. How have you been. i missed yousmile
Money Whisperer
#66 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:27:11 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
Lolest! wrote:
Siringi wrote:

Cege is not pronounced as sege. the c has a distinct pronunciation from s, I don't know how wakanyuhi would describe the sound...maybe dentohiss..he he


Somebody give us an app for pronunciations thenLaughing out loudly

The Rware people pronounce it as Shege. The Southern Sege. Or something very close to that.

Then in the north, some words change even the usually non contentious vowels. e.g some Northerners will say mutimia for woman in place of the conventional mutumia.

The t sound also very different!

Na mnasema anthropology haisaidii

The Murang'a dialect is considered standard dialect among Agikuyu. in Rware they say Chege; Murang'a SHege; Kiambu Sege
"Money never sleeps"
jaggernaut
#67 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:33:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
simonkabz wrote:
That new title is even more misleading.

Political correctness? Should revert to the old title since the new one is a confused title that doesn't reflect the content of the thread.
nesta
#68 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:40:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi

Now, i think, although it may be politically incorrect to revise the alphabet, it would be necessary to do so if at all we are to maintain the integrity...

For example, those kikuyus who say Sege, should be allowed to write Sege and those who say Shege, should be allowed to say Shege.

Today, we have a Mongrel that is Chege which has been completely adopted by all.

We need to do it for all our languages...the whites had fewer resources than us yet they were able to solve this problem.

Luhyas too have the problem with B..

So that names like Bifwoli should actually be pronounced as Bhifwoli and Busolo should be pronounced as Bhusolo

Whereas the written language should be developed from the spoken language, the spoken language is currently being influenced by the written..as seen from Kibaki, Chege, and Kabogo.

As for Maina, apparently he was a Luhya prophet whose's son slept with his wife. When he called the elders to report his son, the elders just passed over the matters. He was angry and cursed the Luhya (Bukusu>) Since his fame had spread throughout Kalenjin land and kikuyu land, he went to the Kalenjin and Blessed them. He later on migrated to kikuyu land where he was given a wife. He also blessed them and died there.

That's why (according to legend,) Luhyas are always very divided Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

However, Both luhyas and Kalenjins have got the MAINA age set. I don't know whether Kikuyus still have agesets, considering that many kikuyus i've come across don't even know their clans

Is Mwendwa a Kamba name or Embu name?
On Christ Alone
nesta
#69 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:43:49 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
Money Whisperer wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Siringi wrote:

Cege is not pronounced as sege. the c has a distinct pronunciation from s, I don't know how wakanyuhi would describe the sound...maybe dentohiss..he he


Somebody give us an app for pronunciations thenLaughing out loudly

The Rware people pronounce it as Shege. The Southern Sege. Or something very close to that.

Then in the north, some words change even the usually non contentious vowels. e.g some Northerners will say mutimia for woman in place of the conventional mutumia.

The t sound also very different!

Na mnasema anthropology haisaidii

The Murang'a dialect is considered standard dialect among Agikuyu. in Rware they say Chege; Murang'a SHege; Kiambu Sege


I honestly think vernacular should be taught in high school. What value do we get in teaching French, German in high school?
On Christ Alone
Money Whisperer
#70 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:52:46 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
interesting discussion here on Gichande and Gikuyu writing system. The concept that writing came to Africa through whites is negated. Wish there was more info on the thread http://www.egyptsearch.c...;f=15;t=006833;go=older
"Money never sleeps"
seppuku
#71 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 12:00:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
nesta wrote:
Money Whisperer wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Siringi wrote:

Cege is not pronounced as sege. the c has a distinct pronunciation from s, I don't know how wakanyuhi would describe the sound...maybe dentohiss..he he


Somebody give us an app for pronunciations thenLaughing out loudly

The Rware people pronounce it as Shege. The Southern Sege. Or something very close to that.

Then in the north, some words change even the usually non contentious vowels. e.g some Northerners will say mutimia for woman in place of the conventional mutumia.

The t sound also very different!

Na mnasema anthropology haisaidii

The Murang'a dialect is considered standard dialect among Agikuyu. in Rware they say Chege; Murang'a SHege; Kiambu Sege


I honestly think vernacular should be taught in high school. What value do we get in teaching French, German in high school?


The problem is that it is not very practical especially in cosmopolitan neighborhoods. What's more annoying is that the British somehow got it into our heads that speaking in our local languages is inferior or dumb or backward.
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
seppuku
#72 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 12:02:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
jaggernaut wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
That new title is even more misleading.

Political correctness? Should revert to the old title since the new one is a confused title that doesn't reflect the content of the thread.


Seconded. What was wrong with the original title?
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
Money Whisperer
#73 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 12:09:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
seppuku wrote:

The problem is that it is not very practical especially in cosmopolitan neighborhoods. What's more annoying is that the British somehow got it into our heads that speaking in our local languages is inferior or dumb or backward.

Seppuku stop that defeatist attitude. it is very possible. Have student choose two local languages that they must learn and this pool of languages should rotate such that every year the languages change, or have the pool differ within the counties so that Gikuyu is not part of the compulsory languages in Nyandarua. I'm sure curriculum experts can come up with a system. then link knowledge of the languages to the job market. An NGO working in Turkana insist on knowledge of Turkana backed with academic papers as condition for job. In the US universities teach Gikuyu, Zulu, Luganda and the wazungus applying for jobs even to work in their embassies in Kenya state they have knowledge of swahili learnt at undergrad and they get the job based on this. Nobody thought vernacular FM radio stations would gain traction when Rose Kimotho launched Kameme now we know they were dead wrong. People like Njogu wa Njoroge wouldn't be who they are if it wasn't for vernacular radio, dude did/doesnot even have a degree just a loud mouth (sio matusi got much respect for the guy) and pang'ang'a mob in kyuk
"Money never sleeps"
nesta
#74 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 12:20:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
seppuku wrote:

The problem is that it is not very practical especially in cosmopolitan neighborhoods. What's more annoying is that the British somehow got it into our heads that speaking in our local languages is inferior or dumb or backward.


It's not really that hard...schools that are located in predominantly one area can teach the Local language. For example, Alliance High school (depending on the mount of resources, ) May teach Kikuyu language+Anthropology, They may also teach other languages such as Luoa, Luhya and so on. Non-Kikuyus in Alliance will then choose to do either Kikuyu luo or Double Swahili. There's a very detailed Kenya swahili that we can use to expand the knowlegde of the Swahili culture. For example, the original Mvita dialect may say, "Swiswi ndiswi swiswi," instead of Sisi ndisi sisi.

@Seppuku @Jaggernaut @Simonkabz... please it's not polical correctness. Just that i'm usually very active in a Somali forum where people are so full of clanism and threads are usually titled "Marexaan, come here," "Ogaden, let's discuss," "Hawiye,, Why this!!!" When someone raised a request that the topic be broadened to include alphabets from other tribes, i thought that maybe i was too abrasive having been used to the bare-knackles Qabil-based discussions of the somalians.
On Christ Alone
mukiha
#75 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:07:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
nesta wrote:
seppuku wrote:

The problem is that it is not very practical especially in cosmopolitan neighborhoods. What's more annoying is that the British somehow got it into our heads that speaking in our local languages is inferior or dumb or backward.


It's not really that hard...schools that are located in predominantly one area can teach the Local language. For example, Alliance High school (depending on the mount of resources, ) May teach Kikuyu language+Anthropology, They may also teach other languages such as Luoa, Luhya and so on. Non-Kikuyus in Alliance will then choose to do either Kikuyu luo or Double Swahili. There's a very detailed Kenya swahili that we can use to expand the knowlegde of the Swahili culture. For example, the original Mvita dialect may say, "Swiswi ndiswi swiswi," instead of Sisi ndisi sisi.

@Seppuku @Jaggernaut @Simonkabz... please it's not polical correctness. Just that i'm usually very active in a Somali forum where people are so full of clanism and threads are usually titled "Marexaan, come here," "Ogaden, let's discuss," "Hawiye,, Why this!!!" When someone raised a request that the topic be broadened to include alphabets from other tribes, i thought that maybe i was too abrasive having been used to the bare-knackles Qabil-based discussions of the somalians.


@nesta, that's the wrong way to go about it. A better approach is to start with getting teachers of the various languages. Then offer the languages as electives depending on availability of teachers - the same way we do with the European languages.

If Alliance High has a Maa teacher, then it offers Maa [aka, Kimaasai], If Maseno High has a Kamba teacher, then it offers Kikamba etc.

But please note, I am not saying that any Maa speaking teacher or Kamba speaking teacher can teach Maa or Kikamba, respectively. NO! After all, not all English speaking teachers can teach English - not even in England!

The Maa teacher at Alliance might very well be a Luo by tribe, in the same way that the English teacher there might be a Mumeru!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Money Whisperer
#76 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:20:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
mukiha wrote:
nesta wrote:
seppuku wrote:

The problem is that it is not very practical especially in cosmopolitan neighborhoods. What's more annoying is that the British somehow got it into our heads that speaking in our local languages is inferior or dumb or backward.


It's not really that hard...schools that are located in predominantly one area can teach the Local language. For example, Alliance High school (depending on the mount of resources, ) May teach Kikuyu language+Anthropology, They may also teach other languages such as Luoa, Luhya and so on. Non-Kikuyus in Alliance will then choose to do either Kikuyu luo or Double Swahili. There's a very detailed Kenya swahili that we can use to expand the knowlegde of the Swahili culture. For example, the original Mvita dialect may say, "Swiswi ndiswi swiswi," instead of Sisi ndisi sisi.

@Seppuku @Jaggernaut @Simonkabz... please it's not polical correctness. Just that i'm usually very active in a Somali forum where people are so full of clanism and threads are usually titled "Marexaan, come here," "Ogaden, let's discuss," "Hawiye,, Why this!!!" When someone raised a request that the topic be broadened to include alphabets from other tribes, i thought that maybe i was too abrasive having been used to the bare-knackles Qabil-based discussions of the somalians.


@nesta, that's the wrong way to go about it. A better approach is to start with getting teachers of the various languages. Then offer the languages as electives depending on availability of teachers - the same way we do with the European languages.

If Alliance High has a Maa teacher, then it offers Maa [aka, Kimaasai], If Maseno High has a Kamba teacher, then it offers Kikamba etc.

But please note, I am not saying that any Maa speaking teacher or Kamba speaking teacher can teach Maa or Kikamba, respectively. NO! After all, not all English speaking teachers can teach English - not even in England!

The Maa teacher at Alliance might very well be a Luo by tribe, in the same way that the English teacher there might be a Mumeru!

Exactly what I'm talking about, a teacher not a native speaker John Kamau B.Ed (Luo and Geography)
"Money never sleeps"
tycho
#77 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:41:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
I wonder how many think in their vernacular languages. And once we can begin to teleport easily, language will shrink to computer language.

Teaching the young vernacular would be equal to preparing them to live in Museums. Or rather, to be components of the 'intelligent museum'.

There are those who posit that language changes with the growth of children. I think they are right. Children of the technocity will have no time for 'ibuku'. Once intelligence gets into anything, its name changes. That's why and how children transform language.

We are heading to the crown, not roots.











a4architect.com
#78 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:45:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
Most kikuyu words are similar to xhoha, swahili and rwandese eg Ngombe, kuku, maji.
The interahamwe in rwandese is directly translated to turihamwe in kikuyu, meaning we are together.
The Bostwana/setswana language, a cow is ngombe, meat is nyama, chicken is kuku,water is metsi ,similar to kikuyu.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
mukiha
#79 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:01:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
tycho wrote:
I wonder how many think in their vernacular languages. And once we can begin to teleport easily, language will shrink to computer language.

Teaching the young vernacular would be equal to preparing them to live in Museums. Or rather, to be components of the 'intelligent museum'.

There are those who posit that language changes with the growth of children. I think they are right. Children of the technocity will have no time for 'ibuku'. Once intelligence gets into anything, its name changes. That's why and how children transform language.

We are heading to the crown, not roots.


Should we then teach them the digital language of zeroes and ones?

Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Am
#80 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:04:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
a4architect.com wrote:
Most kikuyu words are similar to xhoha, swahili and rwandese eg Ngombe, kuku, maji.
The interahamwe in rwandese is directly translated to turihamwe in kikuyu, meaning we are together.
The Bostwana/setswana language, a cow is ngombe, meat is nyama, chicken is kuku,water is metsi ,similar to kikuyu.


Haiya. Muru wa maitu. No ukomentaga kinya debate ta ishi??
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
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