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Kenya Re - what gives?
obiero
#561 Posted : Saturday, September 09, 2017 7:23:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
Horton wrote:
mulla wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quality firm. I'll buy more!

Warren Buffett: “Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that ‘Price is what you pay; value is what you get.’ Whether we’re talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down.”

Highly undervalued stock. Very lethargic with regards to share price movement. This is one of those stocks that is hibernating, but on the day investors decide that it needs to catch up with its brothers value wise, capital gains will be immense.
It should be trading at minimum 40/= if its to catch up with its peers.



Value trap

A wanting business model.. But I wish the investors all the best

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
winston
#562 Posted : Saturday, September 09, 2017 10:41:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
The beauty of wazua...to each his own conviction. Reminds me of the saying...we all look at the same stars but each sees a different thing.
obiero
#563 Posted : Saturday, September 09, 2017 2:03:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
winston wrote:
The beauty of wazua...to each his own conviction. Reminds me of the saying...we all look at the same stars but each sees a different thing.

Soo true

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
sparkly
#564 Posted : Saturday, September 09, 2017 6:22:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
obiero wrote:
Horton wrote:
mulla wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quality firm. I'll buy more!

Warren Buffett: “Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that ‘Price is what you pay; value is what you get.’ Whether we’re talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down.”

Highly undervalued stock. Very lethargic with regards to share price movement. This is one of those stocks that is hibernating, but on the day investors decide that it needs to catch up with its brothers value wise, capital gains will be immense.
It should be trading at minimum 40/= if its to catch up with its peers.



Value trap

A wanting business model.. But I wish the investors all the best


Reinsurance is easy money. Not sexy but very easy money. I love such businesses.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Ericsson
#565 Posted : Saturday, September 09, 2017 8:12:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
The company has benefitted shareholders more than others which have sucked and drained them
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
obiero
#566 Posted : Saturday, September 09, 2017 8:35:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
The company has benefitted shareholders more than others which have sucked and drained them

In terms of return on capital, I doubt that the company could make it in the top 20 of NSE firms over the last 10years.. But as said here by a wise wazuan, to each his own

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Ericsson
#567 Posted : Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:22:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
It's up more than 280%.
I bet there are less than 10 firms which have accomplished that.
It’s even done better than the second in rank in terms of mkt cap
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
obiero
#568 Posted : Sunday, September 10, 2017 8:29:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
It's up more than 280%.
I bet there are less than 10 firms which have accomplished that.
It’s even done better than the second in rank in terms of mkt cap

Up 280% in which span of years? What has been the return of EQTY, KCB, COOP, SCOM, DTB, KAKUZI, WTK, CIC, CFC, KENO..

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Horton
#569 Posted : Sunday, September 10, 2017 9:25:26 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
Horton wrote:
mulla wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quality firm. I'll buy more!

Warren Buffett: “Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that ‘Price is what you pay; value is what you get.’ Whether we’re talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down.”

Highly undervalued stock. Very lethargic with regards to share price movement. This is one of those stocks that is hibernating, but on the day investors decide that it needs to catch up with its brothers value wise, capital gains will be immense.
It should be trading at minimum 40/= if its to catch up with its peers.



Value trap

A wanting business model.. But I wish the investors all the best


Reinsurance is easy money. Not sexy but very easy money. I love such businesses.



I agree. It's easy money. However, I'm not so sure management are great at what they do, I feel there are too many propped up profits YoY by revaluation reserves, lack of innovation and lack of the drive factor. I bet u 50 bob if the mandatory cessation was lifted, this firm will run into losses in its current form.

Please don't mistake this for Berkshire. Buffett and Munger are legends as we all agree. These chaps at KNRE are just too lethargic.

Nonetheless, this should be a good year for KNRE due to NSE performance
obiero
#570 Posted : Sunday, September 10, 2017 9:46:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
Horton wrote:
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
Horton wrote:
mulla wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quality firm. I'll buy more!

Warren Buffett: “Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that ‘Price is what you pay; value is what you get.’ Whether we’re talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down.”

Highly undervalued stock. Very lethargic with regards to share price movement. This is one of those stocks that is hibernating, but on the day investors decide that it needs to catch up with its brothers value wise, capital gains will be immense.
It should be trading at minimum 40/= if its to catch up with its peers.



Value trap

A wanting business model.. But I wish the investors all the best


Reinsurance is easy money. Not sexy but very easy money. I love such businesses.



I agree. It's easy money. However, I'm not so sure management are great at what they do, I feel there are too many propped up profits YoY by revaluation reserves, lack of innovation and lack of the drive factor. I bet u 50 bob if the mandatory cessation was lifted, this firm will run into losses in its current form.

Please don't mistake this for Berkshire. Buffett and Munger are legends as we all agree. These chaps at KNRE are just too lethargic.

Nonetheless, this should be a good year for KNRE due to NSE performance

The year isn't over boss.. Plus I couldn't agree more about the lazy business model

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Ericsson
#571 Posted : Monday, September 11, 2017 1:35:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
obiero wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
It's up more than 280%.
I bet there are less than 10 firms which have accomplished that.
It’s even done better than the second in rank in terms of mkt cap

Up 280% in which span of years? What has been the return of EQTY, KCB, COOP, SCOM, DTB, KAKUZI, WTK, CIC, CFC, KENO..


@Obiero
Up 280% in span of 10 years and consistent dividend.
What are you basing your appreciation on.
I'm looking at share price at that time and mkt cap.
CIC wasn't listed at that time. Since listing the mkt cap valuation at date is yet to double.
WTK not yet
CFC nope
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
obiero
#572 Posted : Thursday, October 12, 2017 9:42:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
Maisha ni kupanda na kushuka

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#573 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 12:09:13 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
Isorait to bash a firm that is profitable year in and year out! ;-)

In the meantime, let KenRe make money! [2017 will be a tough year with all the negative economic drama going on]

I take the long view [think Buffett] and to quote Warren Buffett: “Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that ‘Price is what you pay; value is what you get.’ Whether we’re talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down.”
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#574 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 4:00:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
Funny how KNRE Mgt is being put to question yet the one questioning trusts his money with former lehman employees.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
VituVingiSana
#575 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 11:59:17 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Funny how KNRE Mgt is being put to question yet the one questioning trusts his money with former lehman employees.

Laughing out loudly Well put! Applause

My quotes/comments are often taken out of context by said questioner. I like KenRe currently but I will change my mind like I did with KQ if I smell something fishy. Firms have good and bad years but a good firm delivers over time.

Warren Buffett has greatly influenced my investing style. He isn't always right, acknowledges errors and plods along making (usually) good investments with a long-term view. I hope to do the same. Not get rich quick schemes.

I have written at length why I think KenRe is a good firm despite GoK's ownership/control BUT fishiness should not be tolerated.

I also have Unga, which is in a tough industry, and took the decision to write-off huge Bad Debts in FY 2016-17. In addition, there was a write-down of goodwill too for Ennsvalley. Plus the write-down of the UG business. I like to see firms acknowledge screw-ups & learn from their errors.

KK has been discussed as well and how Ohana has written off KPRL's debt owed to KK.

So I hope KenRe also provides for past due debts [they say they have done so] beyond a reasonable period. It should also write-off all assets that aren't in KenRe's name e.g. shady land deals done in the past.

KenRe should concentrate on high yielding bonds, cheap(er) shares & increasing profitable underwriting. Slow but steady.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ebenyo
#576 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 12:29:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2016
Posts: 1,996
Location: Kitale
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
Funny how KNRE Mgt is being put to question yet the one questioning trusts his money with former lehman employees.

Laughing out loudly Well put! Applause

My quotes/comments are often taken out of context by said questioner. I like KenRe currently but I will change my mind like I did with KQ if I smell something fishy. Firms have good and bad years but a good firm delivers over time.

Warren Buffett has greatly influenced my investing style. He isn't always right, acknowledges errors and plods along making (usually) good investments with a long-term view. I hope to do the same. Not get rich quick schemes.

I have written at length why I think KenRe is a good firm despite GoK's ownership/control BUT fishiness should not be tolerated.

I also have Unga, which is in a tough industry, and took the decision to write-off huge Bad Debts in FY 2016-17. In addition, there was a write-down of goodwill too for Ennsvalley. Plus the write-down of the UG business. I like to see firms acknowledge screw-ups & learn from their errors.

KK has been discussed as well and how Ohana has written off KPRL's debt owed to KK.

So I hope KenRe also provides for past due debts [they say they have done so] beyond a reasonable period. It should also write-off all assets that aren't in KenRe's name e.g. shady land deals done in the past.

KenRe should concentrate on high yielding bonds, cheap(er) shares & increasing profitable underwriting. Slow but steady.



Well put narrative.Following your footsteps slowly in kenre and kenol.got scared with unga hy results and jumped out before full year results which didnt convince me.Otherwise you are doing well with your investment philosophy.Keep up that way.Wachana na hii watu ya kutafuta utajiri ya haraka.They will end up nowhere.Mali inakuja pole pole.
Towards the goal of financial freedom
obiero
#577 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 12:34:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
Ebenyo wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
Funny how KNRE Mgt is being put to question yet the one questioning trusts his money with former lehman employees.

Laughing out loudly Well put! Applause

My quotes/comments are often taken out of context by said questioner. I like KenRe currently but I will change my mind like I did with KQ if I smell something fishy. Firms have good and bad years but a good firm delivers over time.

Warren Buffett has greatly influenced my investing style. He isn't always right, acknowledges errors and plods along making (usually) good investments with a long-term view. I hope to do the same. Not get rich quick schemes.

I have written at length why I think KenRe is a good firm despite GoK's ownership/control BUT fishiness should not be tolerated.

I also have Unga, which is in a tough industry, and took the decision to write-off huge Bad Debts in FY 2016-17. In addition, there was a write-down of goodwill too for Ennsvalley. Plus the write-down of the UG business. I like to see firms acknowledge screw-ups & learn from their errors.

KK has been discussed as well and how Ohana has written off KPRL's debt owed to KK.

So I hope KenRe also provides for past due debts [they say they have done so] beyond a reasonable period. It should also write-off all assets that aren't in KenRe's name e.g. shady land deals done in the past.

KenRe should concentrate on high yielding bonds, cheap(er) shares & increasing profitable underwriting. Slow but steady.



Well put narrative.Following your footsteps slowly in kenre and kenol.got scared with unga hy results and jumped out before full year results which didnt convince me.Otherwise you are doing well with your investment philosophy.Keep up that way.Wachana na hii watu ya kutafuta utajiri ya haraka.They will end up nowhere.Mali inakuja pole pole.

Watu maskini hupenda utajiri ije pole pole. Young people cannot apply @vvs investment philosophy. One will end up issuing an inheritance of 5,000 KENRE shares which will serve no good. Tutengeneza pesa haraka when still young

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
obiero
#578 Posted : Friday, October 13, 2017 12:36:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
Ebenyo wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
Funny how KNRE Mgt is being put to question yet the one questioning trusts his money with former lehman employees.

Laughing out loudly Well put! Applause

My quotes/comments are often taken out of context by said questioner. I like KenRe currently but I will change my mind like I did with KQ if I smell something fishy. Firms have good and bad years but a good firm delivers over time.

Warren Buffett has greatly influenced my investing style. He isn't always right, acknowledges errors and plods along making (usually) good investments with a long-term view. I hope to do the same. Not get rich quick schemes.

I have written at length why I think KenRe is a good firm despite GoK's ownership/control BUT fishiness should not be tolerated.

I also have Unga, which is in a tough industry, and took the decision to write-off huge Bad Debts in FY 2016-17. In addition, there was a write-down of goodwill too for Ennsvalley. Plus the write-down of the UG business. I like to see firms acknowledge screw-ups & learn from their errors.

KK has been discussed as well and how Ohana has written off KPRL's debt owed to KK.

So I hope KenRe also provides for past due debts [they say they have done so] beyond a reasonable period. It should also write-off all assets that aren't in KenRe's name e.g. shady land deals done in the past.

KenRe should concentrate on high yielding bonds, cheap(er) shares & increasing profitable underwriting. Slow but steady.



Well put narrative.Following your footsteps slowly in kenre and kenol.got scared with unga hy results and jumped out before full year results which didnt convince me.Otherwise you are doing well with your investment philosophy.Keep up that way.Wachana na hii watu ya kutafuta utajiri ya haraka.They will end up nowhere.Mali inakuja pole pole.

Young people cannot apply the philosophy of @vvs.. One may end up poor. But I respect the old man

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Ericsson
#579 Posted : Saturday, October 14, 2017 2:03:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
obiero wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
Funny how KNRE Mgt is being put to question yet the one questioning trusts his money with former lehman employees.

Laughing out loudly Well put! Applause

My quotes/comments are often taken out of context by said questioner. I like KenRe currently but I will change my mind like I did with KQ if I smell something fishy. Firms have good and bad years but a good firm delivers over time.

Warren Buffett has greatly influenced my investing style. He isn't always right, acknowledges errors and plods along making (usually) good investments with a long-term view. I hope to do the same. Not get rich quick schemes.

I have written at length why I think KenRe is a good firm despite GoK's ownership/control BUT fishiness should not be tolerated.

I also have Unga, which is in a tough industry, and took the decision to write-off huge Bad Debts in FY 2016-17. In addition, there was a write-down of goodwill too for Ennsvalley. Plus the write-down of the UG business. I like to see firms acknowledge screw-ups & learn from their errors.

KK has been discussed as well and how Ohana has written off KPRL's debt owed to KK.

So I hope KenRe also provides for past due debts [they say they have done so] beyond a reasonable period. It should also write-off all assets that aren't in KenRe's name e.g. shady land deals done in the past.

KenRe should concentrate on high yielding bonds, cheap(er) shares & increasing profitable underwriting. Slow but steady.



Well put narrative.Following your footsteps slowly in kenre and kenol.got scared with unga hy results and jumped out before full year results which didnt convince me.Otherwise you are doing well with your investment philosophy.Keep up that way.Wachana na hii watu ya kutafuta utajiri ya haraka.They will end up nowhere.Mali inakuja pole pole.

Young people cannot apply the philosophy of @vvs.. One may end up poor. But I respect the old man


The old man says at least here he hasn't lost money here and isn't been requested to pump money into the business.


Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#580 Posted : Saturday, October 14, 2017 4:54:31 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,055
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
obiero wrote:
Ebenyo wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
Funny how KNRE Mgt is being put to question yet the one questioning trusts his money with former lehman employees.

Laughing out loudly Well put! Applause

My quotes/comments are often taken out of context by said questioner. I like KenRe currently but I will change my mind like I did with KQ if I smell something fishy. Firms have good and bad years but a good firm delivers over time.

Warren Buffett has greatly influenced my investing style. He isn't always right, acknowledges errors and plods along making (usually) good investments with a long-term view. I hope to do the same. Not get rich quick schemes.

I have written at length why I think KenRe is a good firm despite GoK's ownership/control BUT fishiness should not be tolerated.

I also have Unga, which is in a tough industry, and took the decision to write-off huge Bad Debts in FY 2016-17. In addition, there was a write-down of goodwill too for Ennsvalley. Plus the write-down of the UG business. I like to see firms acknowledge screw-ups & learn from their errors.

KK has been discussed as well and how Ohana has written off KPRL's debt owed to KK.

So I hope KenRe also provides for past due debts [they say they have done so] beyond a reasonable period. It should also write-off all assets that aren't in KenRe's name e.g. shady land deals done in the past.

KenRe should concentrate on high yielding bonds, cheap(er) shares & increasing profitable underwriting. Slow but steady.



Well put narrative.Following your footsteps slowly in kenre and kenol.got scared with unga hy results and jumped out before full year results which didnt convince me.Otherwise you are doing well with your investment philosophy.Keep up that way.Wachana na hii watu ya kutafuta utajiri ya haraka.They will end up nowhere.Mali inakuja pole pole.

Young people cannot apply the philosophy of @vvs.. One may end up poor. But I respect the old man


The old man says at least here he hasn't lost money here and isn't been requested to pump money into the business.



If anything, I have been getting regular dividends.
KenRe is "cash-rich" with a good P/B ratio. I believe the CASH (& equivalents eg bonds, shares, etc) equals 18/share. [Please verify 1H 2017] ... So there's an additional 12/- of net assets!

To think there was a time when KQ's cash holdings were equal the price. Then Naikuni & his Merry Crooks went shopping for too many planes. And fuel hedges.

KenRe - IMHO - expands slowly. Kenya to EAC to Southern (not South) Africa and then West Africa. I expect KenRe to make an acquisition in the near future to expand its footprint but I hope it's a small acquisition to learn how to integrate a competitor.

KenRe has also picked up a stake in Zep-Re (PTA-Re) as well as ATI. These add to the bottomline while providing diversification esp via Zep-Re.

Will I get rich "chap-chap" with KenRe? NO, I will not.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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