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VituVingiSana
#1661 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:53:20 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,038
Location: Nairobi
Flogging a dead horse.
A pity I own 1/50,000,000 of KQ.
Heck, given my shares in various banks, I would say I sadly own way more than 1/50,000,000 of KQ.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#1662 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 8:38:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Pesa Nane wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:


Allow me to rephrase my question...where is the balance sheet and cashflow statement?







Jesus Christ, negative equity after the massive bailout!!!

@Obiero, you better exit and try to recover your capital from more promising investments.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Angelica _ann
#1663 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 8:49:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,901
sparkly wrote:
Pesa Nane wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:


Allow me to rephrase my question...where is the balance sheet and cashflow statement?







Jesus Christ, negative equity after the massive bailout!!!

@Obiero, you better exit and try to recover your capital from more promising investments.


How did KQ con all those banks into that crazy arrangement. Juju is real.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Ericsson
#1664 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 8:55:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,626
Location: NAIROBI
Angelica _ann wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Pesa Nane wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:


Allow me to rephrase my question...where is the balance sheet and cashflow statement?







Jesus Christ, negative equity after the massive bailout!!!

@Obiero, you better exit and try to recover your capital from more promising investments.


How did KQ con all those banks into that crazy arrangement. Juju is real.


More debt will be converted to equity diluting the stake held by minority shareholders
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#1665 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:34:52 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,038
Location: Nairobi
Considering KQ has NEGATIVE equity, a debt conversion is a PLUS for "minority" shareholders.

As I recommended a long time ago, "Old KQ" should have been put under administration and a "new KQ" carved out with the good assets and without most of the liabilities.

This would have been a better option for the survival of the airline but given the negative equity, the shareholders would have been wiped out and creditors would have taken a haircut.

The "Old KQ" could have also gone after Naikuni, Mbugua and friends.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#1666 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:45:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,464
Location: nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Pesa Nane wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:


Allow me to rephrase my question...where is the balance sheet and cashflow statement?







Jesus Christ, negative equity after the massive bailout!!!

@Obiero, you better exit and try to recover your capital from more promising investments.

This is not money I require immediately.. I'm content with one more year of waiting

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
obiero
#1667 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:47:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,464
Location: nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Pesa Nane wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:


Allow me to rephrase my question...where is the balance sheet and cashflow statement?







Jesus Christ, negative equity after the massive bailout!!!

@Obiero, you better exit and try to recover your capital from more promising investments.


How did KQ con all those banks into that crazy arrangement. Juju is real.


More debt will be converted to equity diluting the stake held by minority shareholders

But increasing the value of the firm. Hapa sasa ni positioning for a jettison

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
obiero
#1668 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:55:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,464
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Considering KQ has NEGATIVE equity, a debt conversion is a PLUS for "minority" shareholders.

As I recommended a long time ago, "Old KQ" should have been put under administration and a "new KQ" carved out with the good assets and without most of the liabilities.

This would have been a better option for the survival of the airline but given the negative equity, the shareholders would have been wiped out and creditors would have taken a haircut.

The "Old KQ" could have also gone after Naikuni, Mbugua and friends.

Exactly! Debt conversion would lead to higher positive equity

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Ericsson
#1669 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 10:38:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,626
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Considering KQ has NEGATIVE equity, a debt conversion is a PLUS for "minority" shareholders.

As I recommended a long time ago, "Old KQ" should have been put under administration and a "new KQ" carved out with the good assets and without most of the liabilities.

This would have been a better option for the survival of the airline but given the negative equity, the shareholders would have been wiped out and creditors would have taken a haircut.

The "Old KQ" could have also gone after Naikuni, Mbugua and friends.


Kq is a listed company with private shareholders.
Such an arrangement ain't easy with that setup
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#1670 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2018 10:42:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,038
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Considering KQ has NEGATIVE equity, a debt conversion is a PLUS for "minority" shareholders.

As I recommended a long time ago, "Old KQ" should have been put under administration and a "new KQ" carved out with the good assets and without most of the liabilities.

This would have been a better option for the survival of the airline but given the negative equity, the shareholders would have been wiped out and creditors would have taken a haircut.

The "Old KQ" could have also gone after Naikuni, Mbugua and friends.

Exactly! Debt conversion would lead to higher positive equity

According to the Balance Sheet, the Mandatory Convertible Debt Note is already included in the Equity so KQ will need JKIA's assets to return to positive equity.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
lochaz-index
#1671 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:41:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
Pesa Nane wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:


Allow me to rephrase my question...where is the balance sheet and cashflow statement?






Thanks. Back to negative equity which is certain to increase for at least the next two reporting periods. Debt conversion wasn't enough to bail kq out now they want to try an equity bailout via KAA....when is the merger set to be effected? These losses will decimate their balance sheet too. Depending on how robust KAA's balance sheet is this reduces the time period it would take for kq to be considered investment grade from a long and arduous five year period to 2-3 years.

Weak (ening) cashflows, thinning operating margin and a return to hedging. Which contract/strategy are they going to employ this time round given how disastrous the last one was? If they intend to use the same tactic it is bound to end in heavy losses given the correlation with the dollar and the short/medium trend of the latter variable and perhaps even the long term trend for oil prices.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
VyaBureSiachi
#1672 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 11:26:39 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/27/2018
Posts: 56
Location: Cambrian Dc
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Considering KQ has NEGATIVE equity, a debt conversion is a PLUS for "minority" shareholders.

As I recommended a long time ago, "Old KQ" should have been put under administration and a "new KQ" carved out with the good assets and without most of the liabilities.

This would have been a better option for the survival of the airline but given the negative equity, the shareholders would have been wiped out and creditors would have taken a haircut.

The "Old KQ" could have also gone after Naikuni, Mbugua and friends.


Kq is a listed company with private shareholders.
Such an arrangement ain't easy with that setup

It's not easy but it's possible with state backing. Kinda like how they tried to save Lehman Brothers.
During kibaki's era it would have been possible since we had brilliant minds in the regime but the current crop is a sorry lot.
If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky that would be like the splendour of the mighty one.
maka
#1673 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 12:50:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
If KQ screws up NYC thats it....Dead.
possunt quia posse videntur
obiero
#1674 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 2:46:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,464
Location: nairobi
maka wrote:
If KQ screws up NYC thats it....Dead.

IKR

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
the deal
#1675 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 2:53:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
obiero wrote:
maka wrote:
If KQ screws up NYC thats it....Dead.

IKR


They have JKIA...U.S flight's...I wonder what they will blame next for losses...Ghosts????Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
obiero
#1676 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 2:54:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,464
Location: nairobi
the deal wrote:
obiero wrote:
maka wrote:
If KQ screws up NYC thats it....Dead.

IKR


They have JKIA...U.S flight's...I wonder what they will blame next for losses...Ghosts????Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Shareholders

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
dsktop
#1677 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 3:24:44 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2007
Posts: 53
The NYC route is high on symbolism low on profit, great risk. The money is in the DC route (2019) where the world banks and imfs of this world reside
VituVingiSana
#1678 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 4:24:42 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,038
Location: Nairobi
A wise man said:

Everyone but the shareholders make money off KQ...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#1679 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 4:43:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
How about we take the KQ showdown to the KQ thread so that those not interested do not have to scroll up 100 posts before they get to the relevant discussion?!
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Sir Jones
#1680 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2018 5:01:29 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/10/2009
Posts: 36
murchr wrote:
How about we take the KQ showdown to the KQ thread so that those not interested do not have to scroll up 100 posts before they get to the relevant discussion?!

Can someone redirect this discussion to right topic heading. We are loosing the focus here guys.
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