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Land Speculation Remastered
The Associate
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:55:06 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/2/2013
Posts: 22
Being an Economics and Statistics student, I have always thought whether there is a passive investment where one can make money apart from stocks and owning rentals. Land speculation seems to be the answer.
My little research revealed that most wazuans made their first million after selling land 'How you made your first million'. The only drawbacks are the huge capital outlay and the illiquidity of the investment. With the ability to decipher statistics from the Kenya bureau of statistics, it is time some of this data was put into good use by a mwananchi. The data could be instrumental in helping one to locate areas with the highest population growth. Land is a fixed resource and the population grows exponentially. This means that the pressure on land will continue until a time when there will be no or negative population growth which is very unlikely to happen in the next twenty years. In some places, prices have been seen to double annually. I believe that when armed with vast knowledge in land and urban economics, coupled by a team of competent staff e.g good scout, perfect online researchers and a lawyer who understands conveyancing, one can make a fortune from this. Land is better than stocks because in Kenya, if you speculate wisely, it has better return on investment and next to no risk.
Whats more, you can lease the land at a fee as you wait for it to appreciate. With such returns around http://www.businessdaily...6/-/1rlkte/-/index.html and http://www.a4architect.c...d-nairobi-2000-to-2013/ I believe that one ought to master the art of land speculation for better returns than stocks over the medium term.
Am
#2 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 12:06:43 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
The Associate wrote:
Being an Economics and Statistics student, I have always thought whether there is a passive investment where one can make money apart from stocks and owning rentals. Land speculation seems to be the answer.
My little research revealed that most wazuans made their first million after selling land 'How you made your first million'. The only drawbacks are the huge capital outlay and the illiquidity of the investment. With the ability to decipher statistics from the Kenya bureau of statistics, it is time some of this data was put into good use by a mwananchi. The data could be instrumental in helping one to locate areas with the highest population growth. Land is a fixed resource and the population grows exponentially. This means that the pressure on land will continue until a time when there will be no or negative population growth which is very unlikely to happen in the next twenty years. In some places, prices have been seen to double annually. I believe that when armed with vast knowledge in land and urban economics, coupled by a team of competent staff e.g good scout, perfect online researchers and a lawyer who understands conveyancing, one can make a fortune from this. Land is better than stocks because in Kenya, if you speculate wisely, it has better return on investment and next to no risk.
Whats more, you can lease the land at a fee as you wait for it to appreciate. With such returns around http://www.businessdaily...6/-/1rlkte/-/index.html and http://www.a4architect.c...d-nairobi-2000-to-2013/ I believe that one ought to master the art of land speculation for better returns than stocks over the medium term.


You have a point. But you need no research and data from KBS on where Population has a likelihood of growing. Do not bother them. Do not waste your time. All you need to know is where bypasses and Missing links are being built and Invest your money there. Population will follow you as soon as area opens up. Not the other way round.

Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
ahoo
#3 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 12:50:36 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/20/2013
Posts: 47
The Associate wrote:
Being an Economics and Statistics student, I have always thought whether there is a passive investment where one can make money apart from stocks and owning rentals. Land speculation seems to be the answer.
My little research revealed that most wazuans made their first million after selling land 'How you made your first million'. The only drawbacks are the huge capital outlay and the illiquidity of the investment. With the ability to decipher statistics from the Kenya bureau of statistics, it is time some of this data was put into good use by a mwananchi. The data could be instrumental in helping one to locate areas with the highest population growth. Land is a fixed resource and the population grows exponentially. This means that the pressure on land will continue until a time when there will be no or negative population growth which is very unlikely to happen in the next twenty years. In some places, prices have been seen to double annually. I believe that when armed with vast knowledge in land and urban economics, coupled by a team of competent staff e.g good scout, perfect online researchers and a lawyer who understands conveyancing, one can make a fortune from this. Land is better than stocks because in Kenya, if you speculate wisely, it has better return on investment and next to no risk.
Whats more, you can lease the land at a fee as you wait for it to appreciate. With such returns around http://www.businessdaily...6/-/1rlkte/-/index.html and http://www.a4architect.c...d-nairobi-2000-to-2013/ I believe that one ought to master the art of land speculation for better returns than stocks over the medium term.


I would be cautious on that note.In Kenya the risk is very high depending on where you are buying or from who.The rule of thumb for me is that in 80% of the transactions assume you are being conned and do your 'Due diligence' as we have always said
Some clown sold me land in one of the transactions and when i went to fence it voila the surveyor informed me the title i had gotten was for another piece elsewhere.Guy has had to compensate me plus pay interest over 2 years!


You were put on this earth to achieve your greatest self, to live out your purpose, and to do it fearlessly.
mkonomtupu
#4 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 1:24:56 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
The Associate wrote:
Being an Economics and Statistics student, I have always thought whether there is a passive investment where one can make money apart from stocks and owning rentals. Land speculation seems to be the answer.
My little research revealed that most wazuans made their first million after selling land 'How you made your first million'. The only drawbacks are the huge capital outlay and the illiquidity of the investment. With the ability to decipher statistics from the Kenya bureau of statistics, it is time some of this data was put into good use by a mwananchi. The data could be instrumental in helping one to locate areas with the highest population growth. Land is a fixed resource and the population grows exponentially. This means that the pressure on land will continue until a time when there will be no or negative population growth which is very unlikely to happen in the next twenty years. In some places, prices have been seen to double annually. I believe that when armed with vast knowledge in land and urban economics, coupled by a team of competent staff e.g good scout, perfect online researchers and a lawyer who understands conveyancing, one can make a fortune from this. Land is better than stocks because in Kenya, if you speculate wisely, it has better return on investment and next to no risk.
Whats more, you can lease the land at a fee as you wait for it to appreciate. With such returns around http://www.businessdaily...6/-/1rlkte/-/index.html and http://www.a4architect.c...d-nairobi-2000-to-2013/ I believe that one ought to master the art of land speculation for better returns than stocks over the medium term.



NSE market capitalisation is now more than 50% of the Kenyan GDP that is just 50 odd companies so how is land better than stocks. Shame on you Shame on you
Land as asset in Kenya is overvalued due to imperfect information like upcoming roads projects but there is very little value addition. In Kenya the period from 1990 to 2000 the prices of land were largely stagnant. You may end buying overpriced assets like the Japanese in the 1986-1991 asset bubble. Price is what you pay value is what you get
a4architect.com
#5 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 2:14:34 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@mkonotupu..well put. Land in kenya is over valued. The reason is that there are vast prime lands left idle as owners speculate. Only the land commission can stop this by implementing idle land taxation.
High land prices have in turn affected housing and rent costs.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Kalameni
#6 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 6:49:01 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/20/2010
Posts: 79
the big question is when this bubble is going to burst ? is it any time soon or will population pressure,massive rural to urban migration sustain it for the next 17yrs till 2030 when our beloved nation becomes a middle income country.




murchr
#7 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 7:09:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
Kalameni wrote:
the big question is when this bubble is going to burst ? is it any time soon or will population pressure,massive rural to urban migration sustain it for the next 17yrs till 2030 when our beloved nation becomes a middle income country.






When the real estate bubble bursted in the US it was because people took up loans that they weren't able to pay. How will this bubble burst in Kenya? Are people taking up loans or are they paying cash?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
kyt
#8 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 7:48:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
there is no bubble burst any time soon in kenya. that is for sure.
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
Am
#9 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 8:54:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
[quote=Kalameni]the big question is when this bubble is going to burst ? is it any time soon or will population pressure,massive rural to urban migration sustain it for the next 17yrs till 2030 when our beloved nation becomes a middle income country.



Which Bubble will happen when you can not get an acre of land for 5 Million cash 50 Kilometre radius of Nairobi.




Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
Kalameni
#10 Posted : Monday, October 07, 2013 9:25:21 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/20/2010
Posts: 79
@am are we not seeing early signs e.g too much of Kenya economy directed at real estate talk of banks nd other lenders,iinvestment firms ,insurance co etc etc.


a4architect.com
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:39:59 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
in the us, bank loans were allowing people to own homes. In kenya, these are only available to very few yet land prices keep increasing to unaffordable values. For kenya, the bubble will burst with mass action/civil disobedience when people will not be able to house and feed themselves.If Ngilu and land commission implements idle land tax, such situations will not occur.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
The Associate
#12 Posted : Wednesday, October 09, 2013 12:06:45 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/2/2013
Posts: 22
a4architect.com wrote:
in the us, bank loans were allowing people to own homes. In kenya, these are only available to very few yet land prices keep increasing to unaffordable values. For kenya, the bubble will burst with mass action/civil disobedience when people will not be able to house and feed themselves.If Ngilu and land commission implements idle land tax, such situations will not occur.

Avoiding Idle land tax will be very easy. First, erecting mabati structures will be the way to go just to avoid the tax. Another way will be to lease out the land which will not only earn you income, but help you pay the land rates. Idle land tax will not come to fruition because I wonder what Uhuru will pay as Idle land tax. People who are large land owners run this country. This is Kenya my friend
kyt
#13 Posted : Wednesday, October 09, 2013 5:41:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
ama nipande miti which takes 123 yrs to mature.
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
webish
#14 Posted : Wednesday, October 09, 2013 7:54:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 671
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Kalameni wrote:
the big question is when this bubble is going to burst ? is it any time soon or will population pressure,massive rural to urban migration sustain it for the next 17yrs till 2030 when our beloved nation becomes a middle income country.

When the real estate bubble bursted in the US it was because people took up loans that they weren't able to pay. How will this bubble burst in Kenya? Are people taking up loans or are they paying cash?

Good Question.

Life is joy, death is peace, but the transition is very difficult.
bird_man
#15 Posted : Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:44:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
What is idle land?What if I plant hay (grass)?Trees?
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
Pesa Nane
#16 Posted : Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:54:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/25/2012
Posts: 4,105
Location: 08c
kyt wrote:
ama nipande miti which takes 123 yrs to mature.

smile smile
Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
Am
#17 Posted : Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:08:57 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
The Associate wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
in the us, bank loans were allowing people to own homes. In kenya, these are only available to very few yet land prices keep increasing to unaffordable values. For kenya, the bubble will burst with mass action/civil disobedience when people will not be able to house and feed themselves.If Ngilu and land commission implements idle land tax, such situations will not occur.

Avoiding Idle land tax will be very easy. First, erecting mabati structures will be the way to go just to avoid the tax. Another way will be to lease out the land which will not only earn you income, but help you pay the land rates. Idle land tax will not come to fruition because I wonder what Uhuru will pay as Idle land tax. People who are large land owners run this country. This is Kenya my friend


Give good examples Kiyana. UMK is not the biggest land owner in Kenya. He is Probably the 300th. That is a fact. And Indeed, all his land is in Proper use. Big part of Gicheha farm in Ruiru is graze land for Cattle while the other has Commercial trees plantation. Enda nakuru, enda Kwale. Vivyo hivyo. Wacha Kuingilia watu ovyo ovyo.
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
a4architect.com
#18 Posted : Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:05:59 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
bird_man wrote:
What is idle land?What if I plant hay (grass)?Trees?


check how various states in usa calculate land tax.

idaho forest tax

http://www.uidaho.edu/~/...Idaho%20Landowners.ashx

Quote:
Example 1: 168 acres, Zone 2, Good site. In 1992,
the average stumpage is 15 MBF (thousand board
feet) mixed conifers per acre, for a total volume of
about 2.5 million board feet. In 1995, 1.5 million
board feet of timber were harvested, and the
landowner received $200/MBF net for a total of
$300,000. It is now 2001 and the land has been in
the Productivity option for the last 10 years. The
average value per acre under this option has been
about $520/acre, and the county taxation rate has
averaged 1% of value; thus, the land was taxed at
$5.20/acre/year. Total property taxes would be
$874/year or $8,740 for the 10 years 1992-2001.
Because the landowner does not anticipate any
additional timber harvest in the next 10-year cycle,
the property will be changed over to the Bare Land
and Yield option in 2002. There is no penalty for
this change from Productivity to Bare Land and
Yield. Some of the publications noted below do not
emphasize this important fact.


IDAHO state
http://www.michigan.gov/...alProperty_195107_7.pdf

Quote:
Example 1: 168 acres, Zone 2, Good site. In 1992,
the average stumpage is 15 MBF (thousand board
feet) mixed conifers per acre, for a total volume of
about 2.5 million board feet. In 1995, 1.5 million
board feet of timber were harvested, and the
landowner received $200/MBF net for a total of
$300,000. It is now 2001 and the land has been in
the Productivity option for the last 10 years. The
average value per acre under this option has been
about $520/acre, and the county taxation rate has
averaged 1% of value; thus, the land was taxed at
$5.20/acre/year. Total property taxes would be
$874/year or $8,740 for the 10 years 1992-2001.
Because the landowner does not anticipate any
additional timber harvest in the next 10-year cycle,
the property will be changed over to the Bare Land
and Yield option in 2002. There is no penalty for
this change from Productivity to Bare Land and
Yield. Some of the publications noted below do not
emphasize this important fact.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
mkonomtupu
#19 Posted : Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:05:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
murchr wrote:
Kalameni wrote:
the big question is when this bubble is going to burst ? is it any time soon or will population pressure,massive rural to urban migration sustain it for the next 17yrs till 2030 when our beloved nation becomes a middle income country.






When the real estate bubble bursted in the US it was because people took up loans that they weren't able to pay. How will this bubble burst in Kenya? Are people taking up loans or are they paying cash?


An asset bubble does not mean that the prices will necessary come down. Prices might stagnate to catch up with the rest of the economy. It means there is a mismatch on the price being paid and the underlying asset-value and the market will correct itself. If you keep raising the price of the land that you bought and fenced off you will find at one point there are no buyers at the price you are quoting. That's when the house of cards comes tumbling down.

People might be paying cash but somewhere there is a someone who is borrowing or lending and who is taking a gamble with other people's money hoping that buyers will keep buying at ever higher prices.

Ash Ock
#20 Posted : Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:07:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
webish wrote:
murchr wrote:

When the real estate bubble bursted in the US it was because people took up loans that they weren't able to pay. How will this bubble burst in Kenya? Are people taking up loans or are they paying cash?

Good Question.


Actually, a very misleading question, just as misleading as the housing demand statistics being bandied around.

Whether the purchases are financed by loans or cash doesn’t even come close to explaining what drives an asset bubble. How and where the speculators get their financing is an absolute pointless question. The driving factor for speculating in real estate is exactly the same as in any pyramid scheme. In property bubbles (US, Kenya, Spain, what-have-you), greed for massive profits is/was the driving factor, exactly the same emotion which fueled the DECI and co. schemes. Rational thought was thrown out the window. Bubbles are always driven by emotions which are unsustainable, pure and simple. At the NSE, the KQ and SAFCON IPO’s were prime examples of speculative greed and mass hysteria at play, just as we are witnessing in real estate.

Note: taking a4architect’s estimation from his site, “A median estimate of 25% price appreciation for high cost land around Nairobi can be safely guestimated” and plugging in the average land price of KES 35’000’000.00 (2013) per acre in Karen, in 2030, the average price of an acre would be KShs. 1.5b.

Definition of “Greater Fool Theory” from BusinessDictionary.com: “Observation that any price (no matter how unrealistic) can be justified if a buyer believes that there is another buyer who will pay an even-higher price for the same item. This line of thinking causes and fuels stockmarket and commodity market booms and manias which, in due course, lead to busts and paranoias.”

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