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Madness at the NSE
obiero
#1581 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2018 10:53:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
When did Wazua go from discussing investment ideas, philosophies, financials, etc to a dick-measuring contest?

Or I could be old school and my generation doesn't discuss "wealth" or "income" in public fora.
I know folks who mention they bought a ka-shamba but not as a boast but to share knowledge. Somewhere along the way you find out it was a 200 acre ka-shamba and not a 1/4 acre plot that Maina Kageni pitches.

I discuss my picks but I feel very uncomfy mentioning numbers unless they are (virtually) meaningless eg I still have some KenGen [odd lot] & less than 200 OCH in cert form.

Once I met Kibuga Kimani. Serendipity. I did not know him from Adam. Humble guy. Quiet. He is passionate about Kakuzi and he has many other shares but he doesn't discuss what he has in terms of value. The group discussion, he was the "star", centered around Kakuzi's profitability and undervaluation.

Anyway, different strokes for different folks.

You need friends from the lakeside to complete your outlook on life Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#1582 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:06:24 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
When did Wazua go from discussing investment ideas, philosophies, financials, etc to a dick-measuring contest?

Or I could be old school and my generation doesn't discuss "wealth" or "income" in public fora.
I know folks who mention they bought a ka-shamba but not as a boast but to share knowledge. Somewhere along the way you find out it was a 200 acre ka-shamba and not a 1/4 acre plot that Maina Kageni pitches.

I discuss my picks but I feel very uncomfy mentioning numbers unless they are (virtually) meaningless eg I still have some KenGen [odd lot] & less than 200 OCH in cert form.

Once I met Kibuga Kimani. Serendipity. I did not know him from Adam. Humble guy. Quiet. He is passionate about Kakuzi and he has many other shares but he doesn't discuss what he has in terms of value. The group discussion, he was the "star", centered around Kakuzi's profitability and undervaluation.

Anyway, different strokes for different folks.

You need friends from the lakeside to complete your outlook on life Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Perhaps, my attitudes are a result of spending a lot of time in Nairobi, Ngong, Limuru, Kiambu... Wacha niende "west" to USA in Dec!
Ugenya, Suba, Alego smile
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#1583 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2018 11:39:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
obiero wrote:
murchr wrote:
Obiero, the NSE is not the economy.

I believe you have half a point.. The NSE is not the economy but is a significant barometer to the same


Not necessarily so.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
obiero
#1584 Posted : Monday, November 12, 2018 9:50:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,475
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:
obiero wrote:
murchr wrote:
Obiero, the NSE is not the economy.

I believe you have half a point.. The NSE is not the economy but is a significant barometer to the same


Not necessarily so.

You could be right, but I think you are wrong https://www.businessdail...847630-xakb0t/index.html

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#1585 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 3:56:34 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
Mumias Sugar , Kenya Power , East African Portland Cement Company (EAPCC) and Uchumi Supermarkets failed to meet the October 31 deadline set by the Capital Markets Authority (CMA), meaning investors in the firms will have to wait longer to know whether the management generated any returns during the financial year ended June 2018.
https://www.businessdail...47630-xakb0t/index.html

What's the common thread?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1586 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 8:03:38 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
Buffett’s Underrated Investment Attribute
https://www.gurufocus.co...ed-investment-attribute
One of Warren Buffett (Trades, Portfolio)’s most underrated skills is his ability to recognize when a situation is getting outside of his well-defined circle of competence. He not only recognizes when a situation is too hard, but I think he doesn’t waste much time even considering the investment.

"the remarkable ability Buffett has to change his mind when he realizes he is wrong. Buffett seems to have the temperament and personality which allow him to easily overcome the typical biases that haunt most investors. There are many types of biases associated with investments that you currently own, including the so-called “endowment effect,” where you tend to view more favorably the positions you already own. This can cause you to overlook, ignore or de-emphasize problems that are becoming evident with one of your holdings."
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#1587 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 8:59:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Mumias Sugar , Kenya Power , East African Portland Cement Company (EAPCC) and Uchumi Supermarkets failed to meet the October 31 deadline set by the Capital Markets Authority (CMA), meaning investors in the firms will have to wait longer to know whether the management generated any returns during the financial year ended June 2018.
https://www.businessdail...47630-xakb0t/index.html

What's the common thread?


Looting. On KPLC, Mr. Looto and Chumo took over where Mo1 and Gichooro left.
Life is short. Live passionately.
VituVingiSana
#1588 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:11:58 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Mumias Sugar , Kenya Power , East African Portland Cement Company (EAPCC) and Uchumi Supermarkets failed to meet the October 31 deadline set by the Capital Markets Authority (CMA), meaning investors in the firms will have to wait longer to know whether the management generated any returns during the financial year ended June 2018.
https://www.businessdail...47630-xakb0t/index.html

What's the common thread?


Looting. On KPLC, Mr. Looto and Chumo took over where Mo1 and Gichooro left.

All controlled by GoK
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#1589 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:15:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Mumias Sugar , Kenya Power , East African Portland Cement Company (EAPCC) and Uchumi Supermarkets failed to meet the October 31 deadline set by the Capital Markets Authority (CMA), meaning investors in the firms will have to wait longer to know whether the management generated any returns during the financial year ended June 2018.
https://www.businessdail...47630-xakb0t/index.html

What's the common thread?


Looting. On KPLC, Mr. Looto and Chumo took over where Mo1 and Gichooro left.


Mr Looto and Mo1
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
mlennyma
#1590 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:21:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,175
Location: nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Mumias Sugar , Kenya Power , East African Portland Cement Company (EAPCC) and Uchumi Supermarkets failed to meet the October 31 deadline set by the Capital Markets Authority (CMA), meaning investors in the firms will have to wait longer to know whether the management generated any returns during the financial year ended June 2018.
https://www.businessdail...47630-xakb0t/index.html

What's the common thread?


Looting. On KPLC, Mr. Looto and Chumo took over where Mo1 and Gichooro left.


Mr Looto and Mo1

what values would an idiot see to make no.2 no.1
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
Fyatu
#1591 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:33:54 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
littledove
#1592 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:47:02 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/1/2014
Posts: 895
Location: sky
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/marketnews/3815534-4849150-view-asAMP-ktbkr9z/index.html
Also on the list are Stanlib Kenya, Car & General and East African Portland Cement Company (EAPCC).#ticker:EAPCC

The CMA is taking a number of enforcement actions against the non-compliant firms for the financial year ended June 30, 2018.

didn't expect stanlib and car and general, though I'm not a shareholder in any
There are only two emotions in the stock market, fear and hope. The problem is, you hope when you should fear and fear when you should hope
wukan
#1593 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:21:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,569
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse


I have seen this african proverb on soko mjinga manenoz huko twitter @cobbo3 "if foolish people don't go to the market, who will buy rotten bananas?" smile
Fyatu
#1594 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:26:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
wukan wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse


I have seen this african proverb on soko mjinga manenoz huko twitter @cobbo3 "if foolish people don't go to the market, who will buy rotten bananas?" smile


Applause Applause

This NSE is not for the faint hearted. Making money here as a small shareholder is difficult
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
VituVingiSana
#1595 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:42:50 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse

1) A firm can run on -ve working capital as long as it generates enough cashflow to service its debt.
2) A Balance Sheet is a snapshot of a "day" and the situation may have been different on the 29th of that month or the 1st of the next month.
3) FY 2017 was tough for equipment/engineering sales yet it managed a profit vs many made losses. Think of your not-so-favorite airline, cement firms (ARM and EAPCC), supermarket, sugar firm, etc.

The Positives of Negative Working Capital
Wireless communications and broadcasting firms have a knack for taking in other people's cash quicker than theirs goes out.
http://ww2.cfo.com/cash-...gative-working-capital/

SafCom had -ve Working Capital (-27bn) as of 30 Sep 2018 but I would not consider SafCom in any sort of trouble...

Each sector and firm has its quirks.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1596 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 2:13:05 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,056
Location: Nairobi
wukan wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse


I have seen this african proverb on soko mjinga manenoz huko twitter @cobbo3 "if foolish people don't go to the market, who will buy rotten bananas?" smile
Better than a turnover of 52bn (1H 2018) and a loss of 4bn d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! for a certain airline
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#1597 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 3:26:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse

1) A firm can run on -ve working capital as long as it generates enough cashflow to service its debt.
2) A Balance Sheet is a snapshot of a "day" and the situation may have been different on the 29th of that month or the 1st of the next month.
3) FY 2017 was tough for equipment/engineering sales yet it managed a profit vs many made losses. Think of your not-so-favorite airline, cement firms (ARM and EAPCC), supermarket, sugar firm, etc.

The Positives of Negative Working Capital
Wireless communications and broadcasting firms have a knack for taking in other people's cash quicker than theirs goes out.
http://ww2.cfo.com/cash-...gative-working-capital/

SafCom had -ve Working Capital (-27bn) as of 30 Sep 2018 but I would not consider SafCom in any sort of trouble...

Each sector and firm has its quirks.


Hapo kwa safaricom umenoa mzee
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#1598 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 3:39:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
wukan wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse


I have seen this african proverb on soko mjinga manenoz huko twitter @cobbo3 "if foolish people don't go to the market, who will buy rotten bananas?" smile
Better than a turnover of 52bn (1H 2018) and a loss of 4bn d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! for a certain airline


Can a debate be healthy without mentioning the name KQ?
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Fyatu
#1599 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:10:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse

1) A firm can run on -ve working capital as long as it generates enough cashflow to service its debt.
2) A Balance Sheet is a snapshot of a "day" and the situation may have been different on the 29th of that month or the 1st of the next month.
3) FY 2017 was tough for equipment/engineering sales yet it managed a profit vs many made losses. Think of your not-so-favorite airline, cement firms (ARM and EAPCC), supermarket, sugar firm, etc.

The Positives of Negative Working Capital
Wireless communications and broadcasting firms have a knack for taking in other people's cash quicker than theirs goes out.
http://ww2.cfo.com/cash-...gative-working-capital/

SafCom had -ve Working Capital (-27bn) as of 30 Sep 2018 but I would not consider SafCom in any sort of trouble...

Each sector and firm has its quirks.



Thanks @vvs for the explanation. This dark winter(bear) has been long. The business news from Kenyan newspapers and international ones has been all doom and gloom. CMA and NSE honchos on the other hand have not inspiring at all and any thoughts of buying into the bear in this our NSE is wrought with suspicion of book cooking and inaccurate financial reporting. That listed firm you thought had perfect governance and whose numbers look good might burn you to recognition.

One cannot be faulted for being suspicious(bordering on paranoia) of all CEO's,boards and CFO's of listed companies in NSE.

Take Kenya Power as an example. Everyone even ECD kids know that the 2017-2018 books are being cooked proper with some assorted viungo(tumeric,capsicam,garlic,pili pili manga,knorr cubes,royco mchuzi mix etc) hapa na pale.How can a monopoly which lights up East Africa largest economy(or so we are told) be this erratic as far as management is concerned? What magic did government of Mzee Kibaki do to this firm that Jubilee cannot do? I don't want to believe that maombi alias sadaka has something to do with this
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
Ericsson
#1600 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:18:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,639
Location: NAIROBI
Fyatu wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
Is it technically possible for a company to operate in negative working capital or should this(operating in -ve capital) be considered the 9th wonder of the world?

How do you explain revenues of 9 billions and a net profit of 80 million in the case of car and general? Hapa Kenya kweli kuna mambo. CMA, NSE..... anyone please explain in basic english the madness that is the Nairobi bourse

1) A firm can run on -ve working capital as long as it generates enough cashflow to service its debt.
2) A Balance Sheet is a snapshot of a "day" and the situation may have been different on the 29th of that month or the 1st of the next month.
3) FY 2017 was tough for equipment/engineering sales yet it managed a profit vs many made losses. Think of your not-so-favorite airline, cement firms (ARM and EAPCC), supermarket, sugar firm, etc.

The Positives of Negative Working Capital
Wireless communications and broadcasting firms have a knack for taking in other people's cash quicker than theirs goes out.
http://ww2.cfo.com/cash-...gative-working-capital/

SafCom had -ve Working Capital (-27bn) as of 30 Sep 2018 but I would not consider SafCom in any sort of trouble...

Each sector and firm has its quirks.



Thanks @vvs for the explanation. This dark winter(bear) has been long. The business news from Kenyan newspapers and international ones has been all doom and gloom. CMA and NSE honchos on the other hand have not inspiring at all and any thoughts of buying into the bear in this our NSE is wrought with suspicion of book cooking and inaccurate financial reporting. That listed firm you thought had perfect governance and whose numbers look good might burn you to recognition.

One cannot be faulted for being suspicious(bordering on paranoia) of all CEO's,boards and CFO's of listed companies in NSE.

Take Kenya Power as an example. Everyone even ECD kids know that the 2017-2018 books are being cooked proper with some assorted viungo(tumeric,capsicam,garlic,pili pili manga,knorr cubes,royco mchuzi mix etc) hapa na pale.How can a monopoly which lights up East Africa largest economy(or so we are told) be this erratic as far as management is concerned? What magic did government of Mzee Kibaki do to this firm that Jubilee cannot do? I don't want to believe that maombi alias sadaka has something to do with this

My fren fyatu,this was highlighted earlier.
Be afraid of arap looto and firms under him
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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