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This is purely Assault ,is it worth persuing in court
jjred
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 2:39:18 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
Please advise fellow Wazuans whether this case is arguable in court.

A guy is sent by a friend who has just withdrawn kshs.10, 000 from ATM to pay for him rent at the agent’s office. He folds the money, puts in his wallet set off to the office. On arrival, the cashier receives the money, puts inside the drawer and finally remembers that he hasn’t confirmed whether they are valid or not. He later retrieves the straight notes remember not the original folded notes and insist that he has been given fake notes.

When this guy insists that those are not his notes, he lands on him with kicks and blows. So this guy calls his friend to notify him what is going on and because his friend trust him a lot, he told them that he is involving the police but on hearing that, the agents calls the police faster who came immediately, arrest the guy, took him to cell who was later bailed on cash by his friend.


The guy tried to tell the police to open the drawer to confirm that there are no genuine notes which were exchanged for cash but they turned deaf ears. Fortunately, the guy did not touch the fake notes. He late wrote a statement with the police and he is planning to involve a lawyer since he is supposed to appear on court next week.

Can he win the case
tycho
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 3:59:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
I think the case is arguable, and 'winnerble'.

Do they have the envelope that had the straight but fake money?
mawinder
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 4:55:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
jjred wrote:
Please advise fellow Wazuans whether this case is arguable in court.

A guy is sent by a friend who has just withdrawn kshs.10, 000 from ATM to pay for him rent at the agent’s office. He folds the money, puts in his wallet set off to the office. On arrival, the cashier receives the money, puts inside the drawer and finally remembers that he hasn’t confirmed whether they are valid or not. He later retrieves the straight notes remember not the original folded notes and insist that he has been given fake notes.

When this guy insists that those are not his notes, he lands on him with kicks and blows. So this guy calls his friend to notify him what is going on and because his friend trust him a lot, he told them that he is involving the police but on hearing that, the agents calls the police faster who came immediately, arrest the guy, took him to cell who was later bailed on cash by his friend.


The guy tried to tell the police to open the drawer to confirm that there are no genuine notes which were exchanged for cash but they turned deaf ears. Fortunately, the guy did not touch the fake notes. He late wrote a statement with the police and he is planning to involve a lawyer since he is supposed to appear on court next week.

Can he win the case

I presume he is out on bond.Besides the case which will waste his time,why can't he deal with the guy once and for all.There are capable people out there who can assist.
jjred
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 6:51:08 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
@tycho,thanks..notes were not in an envelope,the exchange game was being done inside Cashier's drawer.Question is ,why did he place them inside the drawer before confirming that they are genuine?

@Mawinder,yes,he is out on bond,this event took place yesterday and he is supposed to appear in court on monday morning.All he needs is justice ,please advise us ,how else is he supposed to deal with this guy once and for all?
We shall appreciate
mawinder
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:19:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
What he is supposed to do is plead not guilty,have an advocate to represent him and you guys raise some cash bail or bond and he will be released and the case will go on.As for him preferring assault charges against the other party,let him not go so much into that due to lack of witnesses.
tycho
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 8:28:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
mawinder wrote:
What he is supposed to do is plead not guilty,have an advocate to represent him and you guys raise some cash bail or bond and he will be released and the case will go on.As for him preferring assault charges against the other party,let him not go so much into that due to lack of witnesses.


Follow @mawinder's advice. But take a photo of the man with all the clothes he was arrested with. Make sure you have some witnesses.

Without an envelope, you can build a strong defence.
alma
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 8:38:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
This is a tough one. Especially since fake currency is frowned at.

There are two solutions

1. Talk with the complainant and get it resolved out of court.

2. Just believe he did nothing wrong and get a good lawyer.

The problem with a case like this is the fake notes issue.

Witness 1: He gave me fake notes

You: I did not give you fake notes

Your word against his. And contrary to what lawyers say, magistrates do listen to the cops who will say they found you with fake notes in your pocket.

My advice: Settle it out of court. He says, she says with these bloody courts isn't a strong card to have with these magistrates.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mawinder
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 8:39:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Note,from the way the police operate,the matter may be settled by forfeiting the police bond.The police bond at times is a bribe in disguise.
tycho
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 8:47:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Alma, It is easy to show that the police couldn't have found the money in the man's pocket.

They had been called by a cashier who had checked the money for authenticity.

An out of court settlement may be unnecessary.
mawinder
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 8:53:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
alma,you are wrong.It seems wazua has few lawyers if any.The burden of proof is on the prosecution and court proceedings are not as you are putting them, besides cases are decided on evidence presented,witnesses testimony,exhibits,technicalties e.g charge sheet must be drafted correctly or the investigating officer must testify in court among many other factors.Believe me with an advocate it is rare for one to be convicted.
alma
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 8:58:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
tycho wrote:
@Alma, It is easy to show that the police couldn't have found the money in the man's pocket.

They had been called by a cashier who had checked the money for authenticity.

An out of court settlement may be unnecessary.


Never thought of that my friend.

So it depends on the OB and the witness statements.

If they say that the cashier accepted the money and then checked as the OP has suggested, then a good lawyer has a window of opportunity.

My view is that its too close a shut door to risk you going to Kamiti for.

A good judge would throw out the case. But I still have issues with magistrates in this country.

Even worse, the lawyers.

I agree with mawinder on getting a good lawyer. I also agree with tycho about your chances due to the evidence presented.

But please please get a very good lawyer who should be able to either argue your case in court or negotiate with the complainant. Freedom should never be taken for granted. Seen too many "innocent" people go to kamiti for not taking cases seriously.


Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
tycho
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:00:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
One can even press for the assault charges and win.
mawinder
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:01:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
tycho wrote:
@Alma, It is easy to show that the police couldn't have found the money in the man's pocket.

They had been called by a cashier who had checked the money for authenticity.

An out of court settlement may be unnecessary.

This stage only comes when the suspect is put on defence i.e the prosecution has proved he has a case to answer that is when the suspect defends himself.As for out of court settlement,how can it be done and yet it is a criminal offence to be in possession of counterfeit currency.It is like suggesting when I am caught with cocain e there can be out of court settlement legally.
tycho
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:21:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
mawinder wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Alma, It is easy to show that the police couldn't have found the money in the man's pocket.

They had been called by a cashier who had checked the money for authenticity.

An out of court settlement may be unnecessary.

This stage only comes when the suspect is put on defence i.e the prosecution has proved he has a case to answer that is when the suspect defends himself.As for out of court settlement,how can it be done and yet it is a criminal offence to be in possession of counterfeit currency.It is like suggesting when I am caught with cocain e there can be out of court settlement legally.


Indeed.
Lolest!
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:38:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
tycho
#16 Posted : Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:04:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?


No.

I am looking at the idea of proving that the assault took place. Proving intimidation and the like.
Lolest!
#17 Posted : Sunday, January 06, 2013 7:33:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
mawinder wrote:
Note,from the way the police operate,the matter may be settled by forfeiting the police bond.The police bond at times is a bribe in disguise.

wazua was going to need your streetwise skills and experience.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Elder
#18 Posted : Sunday, January 06, 2013 7:30:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?

Yes.
He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
tycho
#19 Posted : Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:32:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Elder wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?

Yes.


Like in this situation, won't all statements point towards a crime that would have needed some 'violence' inorder to enforce the law?
tycho
#20 Posted : Monday, January 07, 2013 5:48:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
Elder wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
tycho wrote:
One can even press for the assault charges and win.

you mean damages? Would a court hear a tort case while a criminal case on which it depends is yet to be concluded?

Yes.


Like in this situation, won't all statements point towards a crime that would have needed some 'violence' inorder to enforce the law?


I think I now know why the answer is 'yes'. 'Innocent until proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt'.

Right?
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