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Peace train
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Dear Wazuans, I have this feeling that we may not have any elections soon, or if they indeed happen, they will not be free and fair, and the consequences will be devastating.
My reasons for saying this are:
1. The factors that led to the 2007 election crisis and PEV have not been addressed. These factors are; a great desire for change on one hand, and a great desire to maintain the status quo on the other.
2. There have arisen complicating factors related to the ICC cases, that will most definitely increase militancy across the political divide.
3. The Judiciary is facing the threat of being severely weakened if it passes any judgment on the eligibility of the two suspects to run. Thus we may end up having no conflict resolution mechanisms.
If we let things slide on their own, we will not only find blood on our hands, but we will also find great difficulty in mending the situation and going back to normal life.
Besides, the whole of East Africa will be destabilized, not to mention the entire continent.
I am thus beginning this thread with the intention of airing my concerns first to the Prime Minister, the two Deputy Prime Ministers, the V.P. and all ICC suspects to ask them not to run for elective posts and instead do the following:
1. Reduce pressure on the Judiciary and install public confidence in this institution.
2. These leaders should spearhead healing and reconciliation in Kenya, and support diplomatic initiative to come to an agreement with the ICC to drop all charges.
3. To support the implementation of the new constitution and the having free and fair elections in the next two elections.
4. To facilitate and support new economic policies that will take us closer to vision 2030.
That way, I believe we will have true reforms, property rights will be safeguarded and the citizen will feel that justice has been done.
And again these leaders will still be having powerful positions and for some, opportunities to seek elective posts in future. And all of them will go down in history as great leaders.
So Wazuans, I am asking you back up this idea by mounting the necessary pressure on our leaders and facilitating the necessary constitutional changes that will allow this to happen.
I also wish to dedicate this thread for all or any other ideas that are aimed at creating peace and stability to our country.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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tycho wrote:Dear Wazuans, I have this feeling that we may not have any elections soon, or if they indeed happen, they will not be free and fair, and the consequences will be devastating.
My reasons for saying this are:
1. The factors that led to the 2007 election crisis and PEV have not been addressed. These factors are; a great desire for change on one hand, and a great desire to maintain the status quo on the other.
2. There have arisen complicating factors related to the ICC cases, that will most definitely increase militancy across the political divide.
3. The Judiciary is facing the threat of being severely weakened if it passes any judgment on the eligibility of the two suspects to run. Thus we may end up having no conflict resolution mechanisms.
If we let things slide on their own, we will not only find blood on our hands, but we will also find great difficulty in mending the situation and going back to normal life.
Besides, the whole of East Africa will be destabilized, not to mention the entire continent.
I am thus beginning this thread with the intention of airing my concerns first to the Prime Minister, the two Deputy Prime Ministers, the V.P. and all ICC suspects to ask them not to run for elective posts and instead do the following:
1. Reduce pressure on the Judiciary and install public confidence in this institution.
2. These leaders should spearhead healing and reconciliation in Kenya, and support diplomatic initiative to come to an agreement with the ICC to drop all charges.
3. To support the implementation of the new constitution and the having free and fair elections in the next two elections.
4. To facilitate and support new economic policies that will take us closer to vision 2030.
That way, I believe we will have true reforms, property rights will be safeguarded and the citizen will feel that justice has been done.
And again these leaders will still be having powerful positions and for some, opportunities to seek elective posts in future. And all of them will go down in history as great leaders.
So Wazuans, I am asking you back up this idea by mounting the necessary pressure on our leaders and facilitating the necessary constitutional changes that will allow this to happen.
I also wish to dedicate this thread for all or any other ideas that are aimed at creating peace and stability to our country. That's a tall order mister.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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No Raira, No Peace, Anything short of a Raira at state house, we won't accept. Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Josiah, this may seem like a tall order but is not. It is the only viable order.
Kenya is an idea under implementation, that is why Moi spoke of 'Fata nyayo'.
And even as a new republic is founded, we must seek a new way, and establish new footprints.
So far, we are rushing into a new world with old ideas. We don't even know how the new statehouse feels! It has not even started writing its history.
The ideas that drove our founding fathers are now effete. We need a new world view to avoid catastrophe.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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dunkang wrote:No Raira, No Peace,
Anything short of a Raira at state house, we won't accept. Who is Raila? He too is an idea under implementation. What idea does he present? Is it the idea of the moment? What idea do we have for the second republic?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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tycho wrote:@Josiah, this may seem like a tall order but is not. It is the only viable order.
Kenya is an idea under implementation, that is why Moi spoke of 'Fata nyayo'.
And even as a new republic is founded, we must seek a new way, and establish new footprints.
So far, we are rushing into a new world with old ideas. We don't even know how the new statehouse feels! It has not even started writing its history.
The ideas that drove our founding fathers are now effete. We need a new world view to avoid catastrophe. How are we going to make Raila and Uhuru bow out of the race and who are we going to leave in the race if the two are out?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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@Tycho, what you want is not making sense and cannot be implemented. The easier and correct way out should be; 1) to petition the President to maintain peace during elections and to only hand over power to a duly elected successor. 2) petition the judiciary to uphold the law and the constitution 3) petition the mwananchi to go out and vote the person of their choice Those other things involving placing ourselves at the mercy of individuals went out with the old constitution. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:@Tycho, what you want is not making sense and cannot be implemented. The easier and correct way out should be;
1) to petition the President to maintain peace during elections and to only hand over power to a duly elected successor.
2) petition the judiciary to uphold the law and the constitution
3) petition the mwananchi to go out and vote the person of their choice
Those other things involving placing ourselves at the mercy of individuals went out with the old constitution. I can see some reasons for saying this. For example, timing. We seem to have reached the decisional velocity. On the other hand, I am convinced that we have taken the wrong plane. We are about to intensify tribalism and its fruits. Then these coming elections are going to be very tricky. Some of the conditions you have stated may not even be met. For example, the judiciary being independent, and voters turning out in numbers. A little fear of instability will be enough to make those who registered in urban areas to rush to their rural homes for safety. And right now there are many security concerns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Josiah, the only thing that can change Raila and Uhuru is moral conviction.
By showing Raila that the idea he represents will be actualized if he plays a different role as contrasted to a presidency that will leave him trapped.
And Uhuru can be shown that the lines he is pursuing will have the opposite effect he is intending to have.
Their supporters can be shown the many emergent opportunities to enhance and enjoy political benefits.
It is a win-win situation for everyone involved.
Who will run? There's P.K., there's Martha, Tuju, and all the others remaining in the race.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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tycho wrote:@Josiah, the only thing that can change Raila and Uhuru is moral conviction.
By showing Raila that the idea he represents will be actualized if he plays a different role as contrasted to a presidency that will leave him trapped.
And Uhuru can be shown that the lines he is pursuing will have the opposite effect he is intending to have.
Their supporters can be shown the many emergent opportunities to enhance and enjoy political benefits.
It is a win-win situation for everyone involved.
Who will run? There's P.K., there's Martha, Tuju, and all the others remaining in the race. This two guys are not Mandela and i think u would be asking too much of them by telling them to shelve their political ambitions- afterall Raila needs just one five year term to bring the reforms that Kenya always needed and never had and Uhuru has to be president if only just to redefine 'going east' and 'doing away' with the patronising west if not to fight the ICC cases. There is just no other way to do this things for them and that's why i say it's a hard task trying to convince them otherwise.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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All these because the average voter shall always be an average voter, hence the idea is to deny the average voter unsuitable candidates.....tall order though. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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josiah33 wrote:tycho wrote:@Josiah, the only thing that can change Raila and Uhuru is moral conviction.
By showing Raila that the idea he represents will be actualized if he plays a different role as contrasted to a presidency that will leave him trapped.
And Uhuru can be shown that the lines he is pursuing will have the opposite effect he is intending to have.
Their supporters can be shown the many emergent opportunities to enhance and enjoy political benefits.
It is a win-win situation for everyone involved.
Who will run? There's P.K., there's Martha, Tuju, and all the others remaining in the race. This two guys are not Mandela and i think u would be asking too much of them by telling them to shelve their political ambitions- afterall Raila needs just one five year term to bring the reforms that Kenya always needed and never had and Uhuru has to be president if only just to redefine 'going east' and 'doing away' with the patronising west if not to fight the ICC cases. There is just no other way to do this things for them and that's why i say it's a hard task trying to convince them otherwise. These politicians get the courage to say these things because we believe them. What if we discovered that their statements are not true? And indeed both assertions are not true! They will be forced to find relevance, and the highest gains possible. They don't have to be Mandelas; they need to keep their ambition intact.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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tycho wrote:josiah33 wrote:tycho wrote:@Josiah, the only thing that can change Raila and Uhuru is moral conviction.
By showing Raila that the idea he represents will be actualized if he plays a different role as contrasted to a presidency that will leave him trapped.
And Uhuru can be shown that the lines he is pursuing will have the opposite effect he is intending to have.
Their supporters can be shown the many emergent opportunities to enhance and enjoy political benefits.
It is a win-win situation for everyone involved.
Who will run? There's P.K., there's Martha, Tuju, and all the others remaining in the race. This two guys are not Mandela and i think u would be asking too much of them by telling them to shelve their political ambitions- afterall Raila needs just one five year term to bring the reforms that Kenya always needed and never had and Uhuru has to be president if only just to redefine 'going east' and 'doing away' with the patronising west if not to fight the ICC cases. There is just no other way to do this things for them and that's why i say it's a hard task trying to convince them otherwise. These politicians get the courage to say these things because we believe them. What if we discovered that their statements are not true? And indeed both assertions are not true! They will be forced to find relevance, and the highest gains possible. They don't have to be Mandelas; they need to keep their ambition intact. So what are u proposing we do to convince them that their way is not the best and make them look at things differently?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Josiah, if we can see the need to change perspective, then it should be easy to share these new perspectives with others. Let us present our discussions over social media and all other available media.
Let us encourage other contestants to negotiate with these targeted politicians.
Let us encourage religious leaders and opinion leaders to engage with these leaders and try to show them our vision and its effects.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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The kernal of Kenya's main issues will only be best sorted by the senate(our ultimate democratic institution), sorry to say, not wazua. Whilst, we believe your concerns are true and weighty, because the senate is after the election, instead of congregating a premature unelected 'senate' to discuss, we should strive to ensure an election is held per our constitution, by thouroghly promoting peace amongst the like minded so we can at least get a senate. We should multiply our efforts in promoting peace not trying to 'influence' a nation to postpone its referandum on whom will lead us to a new Kenya, so it does not become agwambo misleading us. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:The kernal of Kenya's main issues will only be best sorted by the senate(our ultimate democratic institution), sorry to say, not wazua.
Whilst, we believe your concerns are true and weighty, because the senate is after the election, instead of congregating a premature unelected 'senate' to discuss, we should strive to ensure an election is held per our constitution, by thouroghly promoting peace amongst the like minded so we can at least get a senate. We should multiply our efforts in promoting peace not trying to 'influence' a nation to postpone its referandum on whom will lead us to a new Kenya, so it does not become agwambo misleading us. Democracy is the veil capitalism wears, lest we see her horrid face. I am now looking at the socialist force that will be at the village committee. This is where our hope lies. But where and when will it get inspiration?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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tycho wrote:Much Know wrote:The kernal of Kenya's main issues will only be best sorted by the senate(our ultimate democratic institution), sorry to say, not wazua.
Whilst, we believe your concerns are true and weighty, because the senate is after the election, instead of congregating a premature unelected 'senate' to discuss, we should strive to ensure an election is held per our constitution, by thouroghly promoting peace amongst the like minded so we can at least get a senate. We should multiply our efforts in promoting peace not trying to 'influence' a nation to postpone its referandum on whom will lead us to a new Kenya, so it does not become agwambo misleading us. Democracy is the veil capitalism wears, lest we see her horrid face. I am now looking at the socialist force that will be at the village committee. This is where our hope lies. But where and when will it get inspiration? It is still just power, too much in parliament, too little for the ordinary people(like you wazuans), power is not everything. Lets not interfere, let's just vote. Ras Kienyeji Man
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