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Mumias Sugar huge demand
streetwise
#2141 Posted : Thursday, December 08, 2016 5:25:36 PM
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Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
Kesho ndio musema kweli
sparkly
#2142 Posted : Thursday, December 08, 2016 7:24:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
CASHFLOW202 wrote:
Someone help me here, are sugar factories forbidden by law from selling sugar cane juice? The sweetest juice with high margins not to mention healthier especially when twisted with ginger, lime, cinnamon... It's production cuts all the huge cost of dehydration to produce crystal sugars.


Good thinking right there.
Life is short. Live passionately.
kaka2za
#2143 Posted : Friday, December 09, 2016 12:22:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
CASHFLOW202 wrote:
Someone help me here, are sugar factories forbidden by law from selling sugar cane juice? The sweetest juice with high margins not to mention healthier especially when twisted with ginger, lime, cinnamon... It's production cuts all the huge cost of dehydration to produce crystal sugars.


Knowing Kenyans, they would ferment the sugar cane juice and get drunk!
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Njung'e
#2144 Posted : Friday, December 09, 2016 1:40:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
CASHFLOW202 wrote:
Someone help me here, are sugar factories forbidden by law from selling sugar cane juice? The sweetest juice with high margins not to mention healthier especially when twisted with ginger, lime, cinnamon... It's production cuts all the huge cost of dehydration to produce crystal sugars.


Knowing Kenyans, they would ferment the sugar cane juice and get drunk!


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ....I shouldn't be laughing though and so lemme pass some knowledge to CashFlow and all. Mill cane is not your kawaida variety that you see being sold on the streets. Nah!!....It's basically more tougher and hardly good for chewing. Two, mill sugar comes to the mills accompanied by all manner of trash, takataka,sand and even small animals. There are no chances of eliminating this rubbish before crushing but once turned into juice, decanting and liming is carried out to eliminate some of this unwanted stuff plus poisons. Three, juice deteriorates very fast as it is easily attacked by a bacteria which "eats" the sugar thus turning it in fine sugars (Glucose and fructose). It also ferments quite easily and within 24 hours, you would not want your nostrils anywhere around fermenting juice. Finally, of course many mills churn out tonnes and tonnes of juice (The biggest mill in Kenya can pass through close to 9000 tonnes of juice per day). I don't know who would drink all that juice without drowningsmile
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
CASHFLOW202
#2145 Posted : Friday, December 09, 2016 3:01:54 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 4/6/2013
Posts: 95
Njung'e wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
CASHFLOW202 wrote:
Someone help me here, are sugar factories forbidden by law from selling sugar cane juice? The sweetest juice with high margins not to mention healthier especially when twisted with ginger, lime, cinnamon... It's production cuts all the huge cost of dehydration to produce crystal sugars.


Knowing Kenyans, they would ferment the sugar cane juice and get drunk!


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ....I shouldn't be laughing though and so lemme pass some knowledge to CashFlow and all. Mill cane is not your kawaida variety that you see being sold on the streets. Nah!!....It's basically more tougher and hardly good for chewing. Two, mill sugar comes to the mills accompanied by all manner of trash, takataka,sand and even small animals. There are no chances of eliminating this rubbish before crushing but once turned into juice, decanting and liming is carried out to eliminate some of this unwanted stuff plus poisons. Three, juice deteriorates very fast as it is easily attacked by a bacteria which "eats" the sugar thus turning it in fine sugars (Glucose and fructose). It also ferments quite easily and within 24 hours, you would not want your nostrils anywhere around fermenting juice. Finally, of course many mills churn out tonnes and tonnes of juice (The biggest mill in Kenya can pass through close to 9000 tonnes of juice per day). I don't know who would drink all that juice without drowningsmile

@Njunge,am an industrial engineer so the argument of, one the sugarcane is very hard than others is not true, you always see boys steal a can from the tractors on their way to factory, what do they do with it? Otherwise it's the fresh juicy canes that is important irrespective of its hardness. Second,the juice after crashing is cleansed of trash by decanting, filtering,liming...... but the real trick to produce juice is triple filtration and to eliminate bacteria is through pasteurization or carbonation. Milk deteriorate faster than sugar juice yet we have long life milk so, that point does not hold water since a simple preservative like sorboate is used. The more juice one can produce the better but my point is, mumias was selling bottled water which failed tremendously. Just think if it was the juice. If the government sell the mill to individuals investors and I bought it. This juice would be my first product to roll out.
Monopoly was the industrial age money game and the name of the new game of money today in the information age is CASHFLOW
CASHFLOW202
#2146 Posted : Friday, December 09, 2016 3:05:59 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 4/6/2013
Posts: 95
kaka2za wrote:
CASHFLOW202 wrote:
Someone help me here, are sugar factories forbidden by law from selling sugar cane juice? The sweetest juice with high margins not to mention healthier especially when twisted with ginger, lime, cinnamon... It's production cuts all the huge cost of dehydration to produce crystal sugars.


Knowing Kenyans, they would ferment the sugar cane juice and get drunk!

The normal sugar is the main ingredient in local brewing /fermentation so either way it's a vice that the juice does not promote or reduce.
Monopoly was the industrial age money game and the name of the new game of money today in the information age is CASHFLOW
FUNKY
#2147 Posted : Friday, December 09, 2016 9:30:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/30/2010
Posts: 1,635
Mumias chairman Dan Ameyo finally resigns
Njung'e
#2148 Posted : Saturday, December 10, 2016 11:45:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Cashflow,

Maybe my point did not come out clearly. The hard part about cane comes when you are crushing it. As it is, small hand driven or motor driven household crushers will do fine if you were making juice for human consumption.They have no capacity to crush hard cane and as such, you would require mill house crushers. Normal mill crushers are heavy duty and some are meant to pass as much as 380 tonnes of cane per hour. Where do you start?. Cane knives, pound the cane using heavy duty hammers, shred (the smallest shredder i have seen weighs not less than 6 tonnes and has to be run at speeds of between 6500 to 8500 revs per minute!Pray . Most, are steam driven even though technology is bringing in VFDs), scald using steam in the region of 180 degrees C (You would require a scalder and hence a medium pressure boiler of minimum 22TPH) and carry out diffusing (Here, you decant and lime) before passing your megasse through mill tandems to extract juice. Now, your hand crusher does not require all the said cane prep steps to get your juice.After cane prep comes de-watering and here you require mills running alongside HP hydraulics capable of delivering crushing pressure in the region of 20-30 MPa.In a nutshell, cane preparation is heavy duty machinery,capital and labour intensive. Let's not go to the maintenance and running costs...........really, being an engineer, you should already be seeing the impracticality!.....It's like hiring an FH lorry to transport 2 bags of maize from Mombasa to Nairobi!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
VituVingiSana
#2149 Posted : Saturday, December 10, 2016 8:14:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,057
Location: Nairobi
@Njunge - Asante. I take it that the cane (post-crushing) is completely squeezed of all "juice"?

BTW, where can I buy sugarcane seeds/plantings? [For the juice. Domestic consumption. I want o plant some in Naivasha where it is hot and dry]
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#2150 Posted : Sunday, December 11, 2016 7:03:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Njung'e wrote:
@Cashflow,

Maybe my point did not come out clearly. The hard part about cane comes when you are crushing it. As it is, small hand driven or motor driven household crushers will do fine if you were making juice for human consumption.They have no capacity to crush hard cane and as such, you would require mill house crushers. Normal mill crushers are heavy duty and some are meant to pass as much as 380 tonnes of cane per hour. Where do you start?. Cane knives, pound the cane using heavy duty hammers, shred (the smallest shredder i have seen weighs not less than 6 tonnes and has to be run at speeds of between 6500 to 8500 revs per minute!Pray . Most, are steam driven even though technology is bringing in VFDs), scald using steam in the region of 180 degrees C (You would require a scalder and hence a medium pressure boiler of minimum 22TPH) and carry out diffusing (Here, you decant and lime) before passing your megasse through mill tandems to extract juice. Now, your hand crusher does not require all the said cane prep steps to get your juice.After cane prep comes de-watering and here you require mills running alongside HP hydraulics capable of delivering crushing pressure in the region of 20-30 MPa.In a nutshell, cane preparation is heavy duty machinery,capital and labour intensive. Let's not go to the maintenance and running costs...........really, being an engineer, you should already be seeing the impracticality!.....It's like hiring an FH lorry to transport 2 bags of maize from Mombasa to Nairobi!


Juice is an intermediary product in sugar manufacture. @Cashflow's question is why the juice cannot be bottled and sold to those who like sugarcane juice
Life is short. Live passionately.
Gatheuzi
#2151 Posted : Sunday, December 11, 2016 9:35:16 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Njunge - Asante. I take it that the cane (post-crushing) is completely squeezed of all "juice"?

BTW, where can I buy sugarcane seeds/plantings? [For the juice. Domestic consumption. I want o plant some in Naivasha where it is hot and dry]

You only need the stem. Simply talk to the guys who hawk cane on the streets. Once you have 2 to 3 stems, they will germinate and you have enough suckers to last a life time.
Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
Njung'e
#2152 Posted : Sunday, December 11, 2016 11:23:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@VVs,

Extraction of juice from mill cane is extra-ordinary difficulty even with the best crushers. The "finest" and well crushed cane by-product (Bagasse) will still have moisture in the region of 50% water. I really doubt there is a mill in Kenya which attains that and i think i would be right to put it that, our mills average would be 52% moisture content. At 48% moisture content, that would be a champion mill and this has been attained by mills in Mauritius, Australia,Brazil and SA. No more!. Let's get back to our domestic crusher!!!........You would be lucky to extract 15% of juice in cane for all your trouble!

@Sparkly,
I think you are already answered. Mill cane crushing for sugar is crude,labour intensive,dirty and generally a very expensive affair. If you invested in crushers like msc but for the purposes of bottling juice, you would never recover your investment unless you sold a bottle at the price of Mercury. Below is a juice producing machine which would cost you not more than Kshs 200,000. Compare that with a tandem the size of MSC which would cost you over Kshs 30 billion




A de-watering mill. On the foreground is a 22 MPa Dresserand hydraulic set. A cane factory with a diffuser would require 2 or 3 of this. A traditional tandem mil will have 4 or 5 of those. Nobody is going to waste his money this way simply because you are thirsty of cane juice.smile





The juice machine will produce "bagasse" that looks like thisLaughing out loudly



While tandem crushers will give you this.

Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
VituVingiSana
#2153 Posted : Sunday, December 11, 2016 12:45:35 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,057
Location: Nairobi
Gatheuzi wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Njunge - Asante. I take it that the cane (post-crushing) is completely squeezed of all "juice"?

BTW, where can I buy sugarcane seeds/plantings? [For the juice. Domestic consumption. I want o plant some in Naivasha where it is hot and dry]

You only need the stem. Simply talk to the guys who hawk cane on the streets. Once you have 2 to 3 stems, they will germinate and you have enough suckers to last a life time.

Some sugarcane I have eaten [sold on the streets] has a nice/mild sweet taste but then there is the "sour" tasting cane as well. I don't want to grow the latter just the former. Not the "sweet-heavy" taste but the "sweet-light" taste. I know words can't describe what I mean! I have also had sugarcane juice (without any additives) that has a sour/bitter taste. Hence my question re: cane seeds. I want quality cane I can chew. I saw a "cheap" [not as efficient as Njunge's 30bn machines!] crusher that I would buy for my use. Are there ("domestic") crushers that can multi-task for other fruits? I have cut down on sodas and want to eliminate them completely from my fridge. The so-called juices on the shelves are hardly 40% juice. Many are very expensive at 200/- (or more) per liter so I want to make my own. No sugar or preservatives added!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mawinder
#2154 Posted : Sunday, December 11, 2016 9:32:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
VituVingiSana wrote:
Gatheuzi wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Njunge - Asante. I take it that the cane (post-crushing) is completely squeezed of all "juice"?

BTW, where can I buy sugarcane seeds/plantings? [For the juice. Domestic consumption. I want o plant some in Naivasha where it is hot and dry]

You only need the stem. Simply talk to the guys who hawk cane on the streets. Once you have 2 to 3 stems, they will germinate and you have enough suckers to last a life time.

Some sugarcane I have eaten [sold on the streets] has a nice/mild sweet taste but then there is the "sour" tasting cane as well. I don't want to grow the latter just the former. Not the "sweet-heavy" taste but the "sweet-light" taste. I know words can't describe what I mean! I have also had sugarcane juice (without any additives) that has a sour/bitter taste. Hence my question re: cane seeds. I want quality cane I can chew. I saw a "cheap" [not as efficient as Njunge's 30bn machines!] crusher that I would buy for my use. Are there ("domestic") crushers that can multi-task for other fruits? I have cut down on sodas and want to eliminate them completely from my fridge. The so-called juices on the shelves are hardly 40% juice. Many are very expensive at 200/- (or more) per liter so I want to make my own. No sugar or preservatives added!

Which variety do you want from these: Nigeria, Palu, Bookers, Kaa ngumu varieties.
VituVingiSana
#2155 Posted : Monday, December 12, 2016 9:10:05 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,057
Location: Nairobi
mawinder wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Gatheuzi wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Njunge - Asante. I take it that the cane (post-crushing) is completely squeezed of all "juice"?

BTW, where can I buy sugarcane seeds/plantings? [For the juice. Domestic consumption. I want o plant some in Naivasha where it is hot and dry]

You only need the stem. Simply talk to the guys who hawk cane on the streets. Once you have 2 to 3 stems, they will germinate and you have enough suckers to last a life time.

Some sugarcane I have eaten [sold on the streets] has a nice/mild sweet taste but then there is the "sour" tasting cane as well. I don't want to grow the latter just the former. Not the "sweet-heavy" taste but the "sweet-light" taste. I know words can't describe what I mean! I have also had sugarcane juice (without any additives) that has a sour/bitter taste. Hence my question re: cane seeds. I want quality cane I can chew. I saw a "cheap" [not as efficient as Njunge's 30bn machines!] crusher that I would buy for my use. Are there ("domestic") crushers that can multi-task for other fruits? I have cut down on sodas and want to eliminate them completely from my fridge. The so-called juices on the shelves are hardly 40% juice. Many are very expensive at 200/- (or more) per liter so I want to make my own. No sugar or preservatives added!

Which variety do you want from these: Nigeria, Palu, Bookers, Kaa ngumu varieties.

I don't know the name of the variety.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#2156 Posted : Monday, December 12, 2016 9:41:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
mawinder wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Gatheuzi wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Njunge - Asante. I take it that the cane (post-crushing) is completely squeezed of all "juice"?

BTW, where can I buy sugarcane seeds/plantings? [For the juice. Domestic consumption. I want o plant some in Naivasha where it is hot and dry]

You only need the stem. Simply talk to the guys who hawk cane on the streets. Once you have 2 to 3 stems, they will germinate and you have enough suckers to last a life time.

Some sugarcane I have eaten [sold on the streets] has a nice/mild sweet taste but then there is the "sour" tasting cane as well. I don't want to grow the latter just the former. Not the "sweet-heavy" taste but the "sweet-light" taste. I know words can't describe what I mean! I have also had sugarcane juice (without any additives) that has a sour/bitter taste. Hence my question re: cane seeds. I want quality cane I can chew. I saw a "cheap" [not as efficient as Njunge's 30bn machines!] crusher that I would buy for my use. Are there ("domestic") crushers that can multi-task for other fruits? I have cut down on sodas and want to eliminate them completely from my fridge. The so-called juices on the shelves are hardly 40% juice. Many are very expensive at 200/- (or more) per liter so I want to make my own. No sugar or preservatives added!

Which variety do you want from these: Nigeria, Palu, Bookers, Kaa ngumu varieties.

I don't know the name of the variety.


Look for the sweet, soft, juicy variety.

Remember to attack the base. Sugarcane is sweetest at the base.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Njung'e
#2157 Posted : Monday, December 12, 2016 10:35:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@VVs,

What Mawinder describes above are varieties of cane mostly used by sugar millers. Not the chewable type you are looking for. Let's say there are over 30 varieties of cane but again, they are classified into 3 categories namely, chewing cane, Chrystal cane and syrup cane. If i am not wrong, the variety you are looking for (sweet/sweet) is called Noble but i must also add that, 2 other varieties namely, Home Green and Georgia Red are equally good. I actually prefer Georgia Red in that it has extra long nods and therefore peeling with your teeth is quite easy. It's a little tough though, unlike Noble. There aren't many people who can point out for you the various varieties and as someone put it here (Georgia Red is exceptional since it has a red/brown/maroon skin and so you should identify it easily), go out and sample,then pick your seedlings from the stock you chose. I hope this helps.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
mawinder
#2158 Posted : Monday, December 12, 2016 12:29:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Njung'e wrote:
@VVs,

What Mawinder describes above are varieties of cane mostly used by sugar millers. Not the chewable type you are looking for. Let's say the are over 30 varieties of cane but again, they are classified into 3 categories namely, chewing cane, Chrystal cane and syrup cane. If i am not wrong, the variety you are looking for (sweet/sweet) is called Noble but i must also add that, 2 other varieties namely, Home Green and Georgia Red are equally good. I actually prefer Georgia Red in that it has extra long nods and therefore peeling with your teeth is quite easy. It's a little tough though, unlike Noble. There aren't many people who can point for you this varieties and as someone put it here, go out and sample,then pick your seedlings for the stock you chose. I hope this helps.

They are also chewable. I used to chew them when I served as a cane cutter after completing my studies. However fellows like VVS may not be able to chew the cane I described.
CASHFLOW202
#2159 Posted : Monday, December 12, 2016 9:48:08 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 4/6/2013
Posts: 95
sparkly wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
@Cashflow,

Maybe my point did not come out clearly. The hard part about cane comes when you are crushing it. As it is, small hand driven or motor driven household crushers will do fine if you were making juice for human consumption.They have no capacity to crush hard cane and as such, you would require mill house crushers. Normal mill crushers are heavy duty and some are meant to pass as much as 380 tonnes of cane per hour. Where do you start?. Cane knives, pound the cane using heavy duty hammers, shred (the smallest shredder i have seen weighs not less than 6 tonnes and has to be run at speeds of between 6500 to 8500 revs per minute!Pray . Most, are steam driven even though technology is bringing in VFDs), scald using steam in the region of 180 degrees C (You would require a scalder and hence a medium pressure boiler of minimum 22TPH) and carry out diffusing (Here, you decant and lime) before passing your megasse through mill tandems to extract juice. Now, your hand crusher does not require all the said cane prep steps to get your juice.After cane prep comes de-watering and here you require mills running alongside HP hydraulics capable of delivering crushing pressure in the region of 20-30 MPa.In a nutshell, cane preparation is heavy duty machinery,capital and labour intensive. Let's not go to the maintenance and running costs...........really, being an engineer, you should already be seeing the impracticality!.....It's like hiring an FH lorry to transport 2 bags of maize from Mombasa to Nairobi!


Juice is an intermediary product in sugar manufacture. @Cashflow's question is why the juice cannot be bottled and sold to those who like sugarcane juice

@sparkly, that is the question am precisely asking. Forget the technicalities as most of these arguments don't add up. Like when one says that the current crashers at mumias would produce less juice if it went the juice way than it does sugar thus comparing a FH lorry carrying 2bags.
Monopoly was the industrial age money game and the name of the new game of money today in the information age is CASHFLOW
Pesa Nane
#2160 Posted : Tuesday, December 13, 2016 9:37:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/25/2012
Posts: 4,105
Location: 08c
Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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