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Housing Finance: HFCK a diamond in the rough
Rank: Member Joined: 5/21/2014 Posts: 184
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This allegation is such a big deal! I think the authorities are too quiet. Shouldn't someone be moving to establish the truth? The realities are either that there are hidden NPLs as alleged or not. Assuming that one is not an insider, right now it boils down to whether one is a risk taker or not. There are too many opportunities all around. Open your eyes and maybe you'll spot one
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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Britam again in the limelight. This is so clear to me, and again I ask. If the father is dirty, can the son be clean. I divested from hfck 2 years ago, I just wasn't comfortable with that increased stake by britam. The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:Britam again in the limelight. This is so clear to me, and again I ask. If the father is dirty, can the son be clean. I divested from hfck 2 years ago, I just wasn't comfortable with that increased stake by britam. Wacha sasa sisi tupambane hapa ndani
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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obiero wrote:Definitely not buying more but the stake I hold is not money, loose change actually.. Won't lose and sleep over its collapse or lack thereof.. At least dividend is assured..  , or may I say right down to the bin. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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To each his/her own
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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MaichBlack wrote:obiero wrote:Metasploit wrote:I have been buying..
Human psychology..People forget soo quickly
@metaspoilt Our good Lord just like in the case of David-Goliath, favors the brave.. Price is up today Truth be told, Warren Buffet's mantra of "Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful" and Baron Rothschild's "Buy when there is blood on the street - even if the blood is yours!" are very easy to quote but very difficult to implement. This is a buyer's market. But even the kawaida players are scared sh!tless!! Then in 2018 onwards, people will start talking about the low prices of 2016 - 2017 and how they should have bought bla bla bla. Picked up some DTB and looking at more KK at 12-ish. Life is good. More Unga at 32. The feast beckons! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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MaichBlack wrote:obiero wrote:Metasploit wrote:I have been buying..
Human psychology..People forget soo quickly
@metaspoilt Our good Lord just like in the case of David-Goliath, favors the brave.. Price is up today Truth be told, Warren Buffet's mantra of "Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful" and Baron Rothschild's "Buy when there is blood on the street - even if the blood is yours!" are very easy to quote but very difficult to implement. This is a buyer's market. But even the kawaida players are scared sh!tless!! Then in 2018 onwards, people will start talking about the low prices of 2016 - 2017 and how they should have bought bla bla bla. This statement puts into perspective my dilemma on banking stocks
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:obiero wrote:[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo. Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote] Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen. The fraud drama is really unnecessary in a suit for unfair dismissal. The issue at trial should be whether the employee was dismissed through the right procedure. If not, he can be awarded up to 12 months pay as compensation. This is very personal between Isika and the HF establishment. @sparkly agreed.. only the mentally blind cannot see through Isika's smoke screen.. @vvs who is the chairman at Equity.. James Mwangi works for P M who by Britam proxy indirectly owns over 25% of HF.. Learn more about institutions and the owners I totally disagree, isika's rants are a good gesture to the non executive shareholders. Its a brief that the executive directors refused to act on and thus presenting us with a golden opportunity to access what the board could never have told us. This is truly a litmus paper for this board/ exacutive, its now playing out in the open for every one to decide. The jury will be out, but I will deliver mine at heart too. Its called being street wise to me.  ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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MadDoc wrote:MaichBlack wrote:obiero wrote:Metasploit wrote:I have been buying..
Human psychology..People forget soo quickly
@metaspoilt Our good Lord just like in the case of David-Goliath, favors the brave.. Price is up today Truth be told, Warren Buffet's mantra of "Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful" and Baron Rothschild's "Buy when there is blood on the street - even if the blood is yours!" are very easy to quote but very difficult to implement. This is a buyer's market. But even the kawaida players are scared sh!tless!! Then in 2018 onwards, people will start talking about the low prices of 2016 - 2017 and how they should have bought bla bla bla. This statement puts into perspective my dilemma on banking stocks The fishing ground is abound with plenty. Why trouble myself with ndega kuya( shifting through bank chaff for a bean of morsel)  let the fog settle here first. The reason has why is going to be around for a well. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,451
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actuarywahisa wrote:This allegation is such a big deal! I think the authorities are too quiet. Shouldn't someone be moving to establish the truth?
The realities are either that there are hidden NPLs as alleged or not. Assuming that one is not an insider, right now it boils down to whether one is a risk taker or not. True. Something smells really bad here. I don't buy this management bullshit of "client confidentiality", "not commenting on matters pending in court" bla bla bla. The management should have given more information even if it is not customer - specific. For example "The NPLs for the period bla bla bla were as reported in our financials on x, y, z and any other information to the contrary is not true.". Or "We are reviewing bla bla bla and a comprehensive report will be availed on x, y, z". What these guys are doing is attacking the guy instead of the facts. To me, that is a red flag. I really need to throw more money at this counter but the management response to this accusations is giving me doubts!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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MaichBlack wrote:actuarywahisa wrote:This allegation is such a big deal! I think the authorities are too quiet. Shouldn't someone be moving to establish the truth?
The realities are either that there are hidden NPLs as alleged or not. Assuming that one is not an insider, right now it boils down to whether one is a risk taker or not. True. Something smells really bad here. I don't buy this management bullshit of "client confidentiality", "not commenting on matters pending in court" bla bla bla. The management should have given more information even if it is not customer - specific. For example "The NPLs for the period bla bla bla were as reported in our financials on x, y, z and any other information to the contrary is not true.". Or "We are reviewing bla bla bla and s comprehensive report will be availed on x, y, z". What these guys are doing is attacking the guy instead of the facts. To me, that is a red flag. I really need to throw more money at this counter but the management response to this accusations is giving me doubts!!! Huyu mjamaa aongei bwana, kunaauwezekano ni kwa sababu amemeza chura kubwa. Speakup and prove us wrong ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,451
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muandiwambeu wrote:MaichBlack wrote:actuarywahisa wrote:This allegation is such a big deal! I think the authorities are too quiet. Shouldn't someone be moving to establish the truth?
The realities are either that there are hidden NPLs as alleged or not. Assuming that one is not an insider, right now it boils down to whether one is a risk taker or not. True. Something smells really bad here. I don't buy this management bullshit of "client confidentiality", "not commenting on matters pending in court" bla bla bla. The management should have given more information even if it is not customer - specific. For example "The NPLs for the period bla bla bla were as reported in our financials on x, y, z and any other information to the contrary is not true.". Or "We are reviewing bla bla bla and s comprehensive report will be availed on x, y, z". What these guys are doing is attacking the guy instead of the facts. To me, that is a red flag. I really need to throw more money at this counter but the management response to this accusations is giving me doubts!!! Huyu mjamaa aongei bwana, kunaauwezekano ni kwa sababu amemeza chura kubwa. Speakup and prove us wrong There is also a flip side. Someone might be stocking up and has made sure the bad news persists for sometime so that he can buy on the cheap. This is Kenya. Heck, this is the stock market (anywhere in the world!). All you have to do is to tell the right people during a round of golf "Don't respond yet. I am buying. And by the way, that investment you wanted us to rope you in, are you still interested? We can discuss when next week/month...". And with a toothless CMA and these white collar crimes never investigated, let alone prosecuted, anything is possible!!! Or then again, may be, lisemwalo lipo! And this is how people (the rest of us) make money. Instead of running away, investigate and get the information (Is this sh!t true or not) before it is common knowledge and pull the trigger or not. The problem sometimes is that the number of shares you want to buy might not be worth the effort. Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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MaichBlack wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:MaichBlack wrote:actuarywahisa wrote:This allegation is such a big deal! I think the authorities are too quiet. Shouldn't someone be moving to establish the truth?
The realities are either that there are hidden NPLs as alleged or not. Assuming that one is not an insider, right now it boils down to whether one is a risk taker or not. True. Something smells really bad here. I don't buy this management bullshit of "client confidentiality", "not commenting on matters pending in court" bla bla bla. The management should have given more information even if it is not customer - specific. For example "The NPLs for the period bla bla bla were as reported in our financials on x, y, z and any other information to the contrary is not true.". Or "We are reviewing bla bla bla and s comprehensive report will be availed on x, y, z". What these guys are doing is attacking the guy instead of the facts. To me, that is a red flag. I really need to throw more money at this counter but the management response to this accusations is giving me doubts!!! Huyu mjamaa aongei bwana, kunaauwezekano ni kwa sababu amemeza chura kubwa. Speakup and prove us wrong There is also a flip side. Someone might be stocking up and has made sure the bad news persists for sometime so that he can buy on the cheap. This is Kenya. Heck, this is the stock market (anywhere in the world!). All you have to do is to tell the right people during a round of golf "Don't respond yet. I am buying. And by the way, that investment you wanted us to rope you in, are you still interested? We can discuss when next week/month...". And with a toothless CMA and these white collar crimes never investigated, let alone prosecuted, anything is possible!!! Or then again, may be, lisemwalo lipo! And this is how people (the rest of us) make money. Instead of running away, investigate and get the information (Is this sh!t true or not) before it is common knowledge and pull the trigger or not. The problem sometimes is that the number of shares you want to buy might not be worth the effort. Stocking what? Apart from the nerve chilling corporate news that your life time investment is being dished out to FI's gachungwas like Sacramento, there is the devastating bond that will leave you properly taken to cleaners. Ngonja ngonja tu!  ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/21/2014 Posts: 184
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MaichBlack wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:MaichBlack wrote:actuarywahisa wrote:This allegation is such a big deal! I think the authorities are too quiet. Shouldn't someone be moving to establish the truth?
The realities are either that there are hidden NPLs as alleged or not. Assuming that one is not an insider, right now it boils down to whether one is a risk taker or not. True. Something smells really bad here. I don't buy this management bullshit of "client confidentiality", "not commenting on matters pending in court" bla bla bla. The management should have given more information even if it is not customer - specific. For example "The NPLs for the period bla bla bla were as reported in our financials on x, y, z and any other information to the contrary is not true.". Or "We are reviewing bla bla bla and s comprehensive report will be availed on x, y, z". What these guys are doing is attacking the guy instead of the facts. To me, that is a red flag. I really need to throw more money at this counter but the management response to this accusations is giving me doubts!!! Huyu mjamaa aongei bwana, kunaauwezekano ni kwa sababu amemeza chura kubwa. Speakup and prove us wrong There is also a flip side. Someone might be stocking up and has made sure the bad news persists for sometime so that he can buy on the cheap. This is Kenya. Heck, this is the stock market (anywhere in the world!). All you have to do is to tell the right people during a round of golf "Don't respond yet. I am buying. And by the way, that investment you wanted us to rope you in, are you still interested? We can discuss when next week/month...". And with a toothless CMA and these white collar crimes never investigated, let alone prosecuted, anything is possible!!! Or then again, may be, lisemwalo lipo! And this is how people (the rest of us) make money. Instead of running away, investigate and get the information (Is this sh!t true or not) before it is common knowledge and pull the trigger or not. The problem sometimes is that the number of shares you want to buy might not be worth the effort. That is what it'll boil down to and whether one's holding is small enough to ensure that they sneak through the stampede at the door. Either the story is right then- Things get confirmed, - ...... - Receiver manager appointed - Board and Senior Management changed - Bank Run from adverse mention of 'Housing Finance' - meanwhile 10% rule on day 2 if still not already suspended from trading... ..... - CMA suspends trading of shares - Unable to liquidate ( uchumi-style) for all still trapped in or Story is wrong- Things are confirmed as a non-story - People who were away from the counter based on this story come back - The long list of speculators join in as well - HF becomes one of the best performing counters going into 2018... -The risk takers possibly make crazy money... There are too many opportunities all around. Open your eyes and maybe you'll spot one
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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actuarywahisa wrote:MaichBlack wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:MaichBlack wrote:actuarywahisa wrote:This allegation is such a big deal! I think the authorities are too quiet. Shouldn't someone be moving to establish the truth?
The realities are either that there are hidden NPLs as alleged or not. Assuming that one is not an insider, right now it boils down to whether one is a risk taker or not. True. Something smells really bad here. I don't buy this management bullshit of "client confidentiality", "not commenting on matters pending in court" bla bla bla. The management should have given more information even if it is not customer - specific. For example "The NPLs for the period bla bla bla were as reported in our financials on x, y, z and any other information to the contrary is not true.". Or "We are reviewing bla bla bla and s comprehensive report will be availed on x, y, z". What these guys are doing is attacking the guy instead of the facts. To me, that is a red flag. I really need to throw more money at this counter but the management response to this accusations is giving me doubts!!! Huyu mjamaa aongei bwana, kunaauwezekano ni kwa sababu amemeza chura kubwa. Speakup and prove us wrong There is also a flip side. Someone might be stocking up and has made sure the bad news persists for sometime so that he can buy on the cheap. This is Kenya. Heck, this is the stock market (anywhere in the world!). All you have to do is to tell the right people during a round of golf "Don't respond yet. I am buying. And by the way, that investment you wanted us to rope you in, are you still interested? We can discuss when next week/month...". And with a toothless CMA and these white collar crimes never investigated, let alone prosecuted, anything is possible!!! Or then again, may be, lisemwalo lipo! And this is how people (the rest of us) make money. Instead of running away, investigate and get the information (Is this sh!t true or not) before it is common knowledge and pull the trigger or not. The problem sometimes is that the number of shares you want to buy might not be worth the effort. That is what it'll boil down to and whether one's holding is small enough to ensure that they sneak through the stampede at the door. Either the story is right then- Things get confirmed, - ...... - Receiver manager appointed - Board and Senior Management changed - Bank Run from adverse mention of 'Housing Finance' - meanwhile 10% rule on day 2 if still not already suspended from trading... ..... - CMA suspends trading of shares - Unable to liquidate ( uchumi-style) for all still trapped in or Story is wrong- Things are confirmed as a non-story - People who were away from the counter based on this story come back - The long list of speculators join in as well - HF becomes one of the best performing counters going into 2018... -The risk takers possibly make crazy money... The extra low volume on this counter is encouraging
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,056 Location: Nairobi
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HFCK's response to Isika http://www.hfgroup.co.ke...p-press-release-2017.pdfGreedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
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Not convincing. This is just a blanket rebuttal. They should have focused on the specifics raised by their ex-employee. Or would that amount to contempt of court? Either way, HF is hiding skeletons in its closet and this was apparent from Q1 2016...their capital and liquidity ratios indicated something was afoot. These latest allegations reinforce that view. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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mlennyma wrote:obiero wrote:obiero wrote:wale walio bado ndani ya hii gari.. chungeni mfuko!!! i will explain later The price is still way too high for this stock and with a rights issue on the way, I shall buy 100 shares at 45 or below and then wait.. Fair value ignoring all emotions is KES 32 your dream may have been fake,on release of rights news the share touched 50 today meaning everybody is willing to be part of the rights January 20.2015.. I foresaw the turmoil as guided by the exchange bar, but lust pulled me back into HF, now im down 52%, waiting for some info tomorrow upon which I will decide whether to bite the bullet or ride the bear
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,569
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obiero wrote:mlennyma wrote:obiero wrote:obiero wrote:wale walio bado ndani ya hii gari.. chungeni mfuko!!! i will explain later The price is still way too high for this stock and with a rights issue on the way, I shall buy 100 shares at 45 or below and then wait.. Fair value ignoring all emotions is KES 32 your dream may have been fake,on release of rights news the share touched 50 today meaning everybody is willing to be part of the rights January 20.2015.. I foresaw the turmoil as guided by the exchange bar, but lust pulled me back into HF, now im down 52%, waiting for some info tomorrow upon which I will decide whether to bite the bullet or ride the bear I was pulled in by the Komarock housing scheme too much faith that Komarock heights would do well with the outer ring road but I should have scrutinized the capital structure and liquidity ratios. Tied up my capital in this value trap.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,175 Location: nairobi
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wukan wrote:obiero wrote:mlennyma wrote:obiero wrote:obiero wrote:wale walio bado ndani ya hii gari.. chungeni mfuko!!! i will explain later The price is still way too high for this stock and with a rights issue on the way, I shall buy 100 shares at 45 or below and then wait.. Fair value ignoring all emotions is KES 32 your dream may have been fake,on release of rights news the share touched 50 today meaning everybody is willing to be part of the rights January 20.2015.. I foresaw the turmoil as guided by the exchange bar, but lust pulled me back into HF, now im down 52%, waiting for some info tomorrow upon which I will decide whether to bite the bullet or ride the bear I was pulled in by the Komarock housing scheme too much faith that Komarock heights would do well with the outer ring road but I should have scrutinized the capital structure and liquidity ratios. Tied up my capital in this value trap. I also heard another bank saying it was duped by a report to sink 400m in uchumi and wants refund so you are not alone "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Housing Finance: HFCK a diamond in the rough
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