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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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Angelica _ann wrote:wukan wrote:You know at the age of 50-60 you can sell one of the houses and buy bonds to live off the interest in retirement. I'm sure healthcare costs would be really be expensive. In Africa due to inflation real estate still remains king. Africa is too risky for bonds politicians can mess up big-time. Imagine buying Somali govt bonds and the state collapses or a new regime deciding to give bond holders a haircut. Mimi niko hapa ....so you understand  . But you cannot start learning how to deal with bonds/bills at this age. Therefore you must start early. Invest in a family house to stay in, rest enjoy life my fren. Even the Michukis have estate administration dispute, of all the people. Let your kids build their own investment - provide them with good education, formation and moral standing. But let them chart their own course/destiny. From the meeting I thought you were in your dhates only! Kumbe ni mzee. People like Oliech n "Mariga" should not be begging for Paybill from Kenyans.Poor choices. Not everyone can do business or be a hustler-prenuer! There is a point when more money doesn't improve your life or increase comfort. When you reach that point,no need to continue packing up those plots. At that point just let your little money work for you...or collect some decent rental income...no need for late night business deals. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2016 Posts: 1,996 Location: Kitale
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Impunity wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Impunity wrote:ibsi wrote:Impunity wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:Impunity wrote:KulaRaha wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting  Now this is good, mbus came back for the masses, unlike previously. Underpriced, they should pay 13%+ for this tenor. They'll raise rates soon... The coupon rate remains same coz it's a tap sale. The weighted rate may go higher than 12.156 (sad) but also may go lower. So much liquidity in the market. I moved from bonds to 1 year t-bills, better compounded returns and no sales headaches. I don't think Tbills at 9% before 15% haircut is comparable to 12% net profit IFB. You will be more liquid with a monthly spreadout bills and you risk misusing the liquidity on some urembo za bure. I prefer Bonds to Bills coz of the interest rate and also ease in handling them especially rolling over. Once you buy a 20 yr bond you'll just relax and get interest semi annually and reinvest the interest and by the time the bond matures, you'll have made a fortune to make you survive. Me thought so too. Imagine placing 100M in a 20 year IFB bond coupons at 12%. This will give you monthly salo ya Kes.1M for 20 years (Yaani 4 terms as an mpig). Contrast this with buying a 20M land in kitusuru and putting up 2 mansions at 40M each...each mansion giving 200K pm at the best...thats 400K pm assuming full time occupancy. Then think about maintenance,kanjo,Riparian fears,non occupancy,difficult luo tenants etc for 20 years! Sometimes it's good to let the money work for you....sadly we don't have the 100M now.  Naysayers claim you can put the 100M in sportspesa and double it overnight....but you can also lose it overnight! Just imagine what you can do with a 1M monthly income? You can rent those 200K per month serviced apartments hapo Rosdlyn Heights and be neighbors with kina Caroline Mutoko and other top end slay queens...and still have change to buy plot monthly huko Kitee! I agree with you. The people who bet in sportpesa and in other betting games are suffering from poverty mentality. Towards the goal of financial freedom
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/7/2010 Posts: 38 Location: Nairobi
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Ebenyo wrote:Impunity wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Impunity wrote:ibsi wrote:Impunity wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:Impunity wrote:KulaRaha wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting Now this is good, mbus came back for the masses, unlike previously. Unfortunately and despite the extended period of offer, only 8b has been realised. It was a bad timing for CBK. The coupon for such long period wasn't attractive either. For me the coupon was ok compared to normal bonds which usually attract withholding tax. Underpriced, they should pay 13%+ for this tenor. They'll raise rates soon... The coupon rate remains same coz it's a tap sale. The weighted rate may go higher than 12.156 (sad) but also may go lower. So much liquidity in the market. I moved from bonds to 1 year t-bills, better compounded returns and no sales headaches. I don't think Tbills at 9% before 15% haircut is comparable to 12% net profit IFB. You will be more liquid with a monthly spreadout bills and you risk misusing the liquidity on some urembo za bure. I prefer Bonds to Bills coz of the interest rate and also ease in handling them especially rolling over. Once you buy a 20 yr bond you'll just relax and get interest semi annually and reinvest the interest and by the time the bond matures, you'll have made a fortune to make you survive. Me thought so too. Imagine placing 100M in a 20 year IFB bond coupons at 12%. This will give you monthly salo ya Kes.1M for 20 years (Yaani 4 terms as an mpig). Contrast this with buying a 20M land in kitusuru and putting up 2 mansions at 40M each...each mansion giving 200K pm at the best...thats 400K pm assuming full time occupancy. Then think about maintenance,kanjo,Riparian fears,non occupancy,difficult luo tenants etc for 20 years! Sometimes it's good to let the money work for you....sadly we don't have the 100M now. Naysayers claim you can put the 100M in sportspesa and double it overnight....but you can also lose it overnight! Just imagine what you can do with a 1M monthly income? You can rent those 200K per month serviced apartments hapo Rosdlyn Heights and be neighbors with kina Caroline Mutoko and other top end slay queens...and still have change to buy plot monthly huko Kitee! I agree with you. The people who bet in sportpesa and in other betting games are suffering from poverty mentality. Trust in God and endure patiently.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/6/2008 Posts: 199
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ibsi wrote:wukan wrote:You know at the age of 50-60 you can sell one of the houses and buy bonds to live off the interest in retirement. I'm sure healthcare costs would be really be expensive. In Africa due to inflation real estate still remains king. Africa is too risky for bonds politicians can mess up big-time. Imagine buying Somali govt bonds and the state collapses or a new regime deciding to give bond holders a haircut. There's no need to live in fear about political turmoil. If anything, the first people who would suffer loss of investments are those who who own real estates and other businesses. As somebody said earlier, live now and let the others take care of themselves. For children, give them quality education environment, they'll enjoy making their own money. What about inflation? One of the many โtechniquesโ governments use to get out of debt crises.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting  possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,901
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maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. Economy mbaya... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. Nye nye nye nye nyeeee na given a whole week they could not buy anything. Maka,I thought at the Tap same a new average accepted rate was to be determined by the market? How comes it's the same rate as initial offer? Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Impunity wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. Nye nye nye nye nyeeee na given a whole week they could not buy anything. Maka,I thought at the Tap same a new average accepted rate was to be determined by the market? How comes it's the same rate as initial offer? That's how TAP works.... Only thing is the pay up price is adjusted for accrued interest... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:Impunity wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. Nye nye nye nye nyeeee na given a whole week they could not buy anything. Maka,I thought at the Tap same a new average accepted rate was to be determined by the market? How comes it's the same rate as initial offer? That's how TAP works.... Only thing is the pay up price is adjusted for accrued interest... Hypothetical figures below๐๐พ๐๐พ  possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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maka wrote:maka wrote:Impunity wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. Nye nye nye nye nyeeee na given a whole week they could not buy anything. Maka,I thought at the Tap same a new average accepted rate was to be determined by the market? How comes it's the same rate as initial offer? That's how TAP works.... Only thing is the pay up price is adjusted for accrued interest... Hypothetical figures below๐๐พ๐๐พ Explain the figures please. Say someone bought face value at 1M,what will a guy buying at IPO and at one buying at TAP pay? Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Guys didn't buy tap because this bond should yield higher. Tenor is very long. Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Impunity wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Impunity wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. Nye nye nye nye nyeeee na given a whole week they could not buy anything. Maka,I thought at the Tap same a new average accepted rate was to be determined by the market? How comes it's the same rate as initial offer? That's how TAP works.... Only thing is the pay up price is adjusted for accrued interest... Hypothetical figures below๐๐พ๐๐พ Explain the figures please. Say someone bought face value at 1M,what will a guy buying at IPO and at one buying at TAP pay? Let's say you applied for 20m.... In the original auction you paid 99.127 for every 100....So 99.127 * 20000000 Comes to 19 733 400 For the TAP you will pay 19 825 400... 19 825 400 - 19 733 400 =? That fig is the accrued interest from the time the original auctions VD to present TAP payment.... 92k if am not wrong... Original auction - 98.667 per 100 TAP - 99.127 per 100 possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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maka wrote:Impunity wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Impunity wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Tap sale... Am too high to get the info... But yes we have a tap... Kesho is another day. We will be waiting So locals made noise about the issue yet when given opportunity hawana pesa. Nye nye nye nye nyeeee na given a whole week they could not buy anything. Maka,I thought at the Tap same a new average accepted rate was to be determined by the market? How comes it's the same rate as initial offer? That's how TAP works.... Only thing is the pay up price is adjusted for accrued interest... Hypothetical figures below๐๐พ๐๐พ Explain the figures please. Say someone bought face value at 1M,what will a guy buying at IPO and at one buying at TAP pay? Let's say you applied for 20m.... In the original auction you paid 99.127 for every 100....So 99.127 * 20000000 Comes to 19 733 400 For the TAP you will pay 19 825 400... 19 825 400 - 19 733 400 =? That fig is the accrued interest from the time the original auctions VD to present TAP payment.... 92k if am not wrong... Original auction - 98.667 per 100 TAP - 99.127 per 100 Making sense now albeit a lirr mix up of rates! IPO should be 99.127 TAP should be 98.667 Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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Loan to Loan Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,901
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โWe are doing a syndicate to term out (lengthen maturity) of a maturing two-year syndicated loan taken in April 2017. This is a standard practice worldwide to retire short-dated loan and replace it with longer-dated loan as part of liability management,โ Mr Rotich told the Nation. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:โWe are doing a syndicate to term out (lengthen maturity) of a maturing two-year syndicated loan taken in April 2017. This is a standard practice worldwide to retire short-dated loan and replace it with longer-dated loan as part of liability management,โ Mr Rotich told the Nation. The explanation is acceptable only if there's no cash addition on the outstanding sum
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,569
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chickens coming home to roost The refinancing risk Quote:Data from the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) shows the 30-year bond stood at a high of 10.284 percent on November 27 before easing to 10.014 percent and 9.8 percent last Thursday. The issue first traded in the open market on February 23 at a yield of 8.021 percent, meaning the high reached last week amounts to an increase of 2.263 percentage points.
The 10-year bond has seen its yield rise to 9.071 percent compared to 7.07 percent when it was launched into the market on February 23. Yields on bonds issued in 2014 have also risen. Quote:The Treasury is seeking Sh40 billion through a 10-year bond whose coupon or interest rate will be determined by the market. The Central Bank of Kenya (CBK), acting on behalf of the Treasury, said it is upon the market to determine the rate it wants to buy the bond thereby opening the way for investors to ask for higher compensation. The sale takes five working days with the closing day set as December 11. Analysts have already expressed pessimism on the subscription, citing its length and constrained market liquidity. https://www.businessdail...1156-f8t9bpz/index.html
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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wukan wrote:chickens coming home to roost The refinancing risk Quote:Data from the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) shows the 30-year bond stood at a high of 10.284 percent on November 27 before easing to 10.014 percent and 9.8 percent last Thursday. The issue first traded in the open market on February 23 at a yield of 8.021 percent, meaning the high reached last week amounts to an increase of 2.263 percentage points.
The 10-year bond has seen its yield rise to 9.071 percent compared to 7.07 percent when it was launched into the market on February 23. Yields on bonds issued in 2014 have also risen. Quote:The Treasury is seeking Sh40 billion through a 10-year bond whose coupon or interest rate will be determined by the market. The Central Bank of Kenya (CBK), acting on behalf of the Treasury, said it is upon the market to determine the rate it wants to buy the bond thereby opening the way for investors to ask for higher compensation. The sale takes five working days with the closing day set as December 11. Analysts have already expressed pessimism on the subscription, citing its length and constrained market liquidity. https://www.businessdail...1156-f8t9bpz/index.html
No resting... They should just allow we quote 15% they get 40 Bn in full.... 10 years from now maybe we will be dead.... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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wukan wrote:chickens coming home to roost The refinancing risk Quote:Data from the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) shows the 30-year bond stood at a high of 10.284 percent on November 27 before easing to 10.014 percent and 9.8 percent last Thursday. The issue first traded in the open market on February 23 at a yield of 8.021 percent, meaning the high reached last week amounts to an increase of 2.263 percentage points.
The 10-year bond has seen its yield rise to 9.071 percent compared to 7.07 percent when it was launched into the market on February 23. Yields on bonds issued in 2014 have also risen. Quote:The Treasury is seeking Sh40 billion through a 10-year bond whose coupon or interest rate will be determined by the market. The Central Bank of Kenya (CBK), acting on behalf of the Treasury, said it is upon the market to determine the rate it wants to buy the bond thereby opening the way for investors to ask for higher compensation. The sale takes five working days with the closing day set as December 11. Analysts have already expressed pessimism on the subscription, citing its length and constrained market liquidity. https://www.businessdail...1156-f8t9bpz/index.html
The gaaament is full of njaament. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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