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Dirty old men of corporate Kenya
Insurgent
#1 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2011 9:33:48 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/6/2010
Posts: 594
Kiereini is being accused of amassing wealth in Jersey with the help of one Foster who was the CEO of CMC for 20yrs. Finally we can see how our old men are not as clean as we thought.


"One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.

FUNKY
#2 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2011 9:35:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/30/2010
Posts: 1,635
Any link?
Insurgent
#3 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2011 9:58:05 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/6/2010
Posts: 594
FUNKY wrote:
Any link?


TWO former directors of Cooper Motors have "illegal offshore accounts" containing hundreds of millions of shillings in Jersey, according to new Group CEO Bill Lay.

"Details of these accounts were kept secret from other directors. One of the accounts has a balance of over Sh240 million. Management is also investigating two additional offshore accounts with substantial transaction activity. Management continues to work on ways to repatriate these funds for the benefit of CMC shareholders," Lay told a press conference yesterday.


"One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.

Insurgent
#4 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2011 9:59:38 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/6/2010
Posts: 594
http://allafrica.com/stories/201109160087.html


"One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.

Kaigangio
#5 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2011 10:17:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
the same corruption cycle like kplc...

kenya gvt ====>wants land rovers for military and passats for civil servants=====>CMC supplier (kitu kidogo changes hands)======> land rover manufacturer (Britain, now tata motors)(kitu kikubwa changes hands)======>kenya gvt gets the vehicles at inflated prices======>tax payer foots the bill...NKT!!!!
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Jaina
#6 Posted : Sunday, November 13, 2011 2:03:32 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/13/2008
Posts: 558
This had to give in. Kumbe this old "Mafia" had put in place such an elaborate plan to "steal" from the company. Its a Shame.

http://www.nation.co.ke/...2/-/e0xi5m/-/index.html

This is Exactly the reason why Kenya needs new crop of Leaders. How on earth could the ordinary shareholders in CMC uncovered this if Ndungu'u & Co didnt get into this Board.

CMC is finished.
Sure
#7 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 9:23:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 546
Location: Garissa
When the tax man comes into the scene, CMC might as well be history. They will have to pay for taxes on those millions if not billions they have stolen. Bill Lay was a godsend. Finally, we can now see how the britons have been doing business with us. Corruption starts in Britain and has been going on and on.
Wisdom to detect when share prices hit rock bottom.
When interest on bonds keep going up, you know the bear run is on high street. When interest on bonds start leveling, the bear has met the bull and they have hit rock bottom. When the interest rates on bonds start coming down, the bull has overpowered the bear and you better be riding the bull.
RVP
#8 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 10:07:27 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/3/2010
Posts: 69
Who are their auditors? Did they overlook the fraud or can they prove that they were also duped? If it was in the US or Europe, wouldn't this have been one of the first questions asked?
mukiha
#9 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 10:28:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
RVP wrote:
Who are their auditors? Did they overlook the fraud or can they prove that they were also duped? If it was in the US or Europe, wouldn't this have been one of the first questions asked?


Delloite & Touche

But now read this standard statement of responsibility...

AUDITORS RESPONSIBILITY
“Our responsibility is to express an independent opinion on these financial statements based on our audit. We conducted our audit in accordance with International Standards on Auditing. Those standards require that we comply with ethical requirements and plan and perform the audit to obtain reasonable assurance as to whether the financial statements are free of material misstatement.

An audit involves performing procedures to obtain audit evidence about the amounts and disclosures in the financial statements. The procedures selected depend on the auditors’ judgment, including the assessment of the risks of material misstatement of the financial statements, whether due to fraud or error. In making those risk assessments, the auditor
considers internal controls relevant to the entity’s preparation and fair presentation of the financial statements in order to design audit procedures that are appropriate in the circumstances, but not for the purpose of expressing an opinion on the effectiveness of the entity’s internal controls. An audit also includes evaluating the appropriateness of accounting policies used and the reasonableness of accounting estimates made by the directors, as well as evaluating the overall presentation of the financial statements.

We believe that the audit evidence we have obtained is sufficient and appropriate to provide a basis for our audit opinion.”
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
accelriskconsult
#10 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 10:55:41 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
RVP wrote:
Who are their auditors? Did they overlook the fraud or can they prove that they were also duped? If it was in the US or Europe, wouldn't this have been one of the first questions asked?



It would be be quite difficult for external auditors to discover that kind of fraud for 2 reasons;

(1) The money was hidden in offshore accounts and those accounts were not in the company's general ledger.

(2) The funds were schemed from supplier invoices and transferred directly. The information needed to uncover the fraud could not be obtained from supplier invoices which were inflated by only 0.5%.

The auditors will also argue that they relied on management representations- that the directors had supplied them with all the necessary information.

You need luck to uncover this kind of fraud especially when the parties aiding in execution are based in a foreign country.

If I was a shareholder, I would sue the CMC board, past members of the board, benecifiaries of the payments and the trustees of the fund.

FYI - the current FD most likely managed the audit of CMC at one point in her career
Jamani
#11 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 1:46:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
accelriskconsult wrote:
RVP wrote:
Who are their auditors? Did they overlook the fraud or can they prove that they were also duped? If it was in the US or Europe, wouldn't this have been one of the first questions asked?



It would be be quite difficult for external auditors to discover that kind of fraud for 2 reasons;

(1) The money was hidden in offshore accounts and those accounts were not in the company's general ledger.

(2) The funds were schemed from supplier invoices and transferred directly. The information needed to uncover the fraud could not be obtained from supplier invoices which were inflated by only 0.5%.

The auditors will also argue that they relied on management representations- that the directors had supplied them with all the necessary information.

You need luck to uncover this kind of fraud especially when the parties aiding in execution are based in a foreign country.

If I was a shareholder, I would sue the CMC board, past members of the board, benecifiaries of the payments and the trustees of the fund.

FYI - the current FD most likely managed the audit of CMC at one point in her career


Following the defense above, have we ever heard of any audit company in kenya, that had the "the luck to uncover fraud" from any of the listed companies and reported it? I can't remember any....... CMC had issues, audit passed over years, remember AK issues audit passed etc... is it that they are not lucky or do they turn a blind eye and use the defense above to argue that they relied on management representations..... so why do we pay them? if all they do is rely on management representation which is cooked

QD
#12 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 2:28:06 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2009
Posts: 597
Jaina wrote:
This had to give in. Kumbe this old "Mafia" had put in place such an elaborate plan to "steal" from the company. Its a Shame.

http://www.nation.co.ke/...2/-/e0xi5m/-/index.html

This is Exactly the reason why Kenya needs new crop of Leaders. How on earth could the ordinary shareholders in CMC uncovered this if Ndungu'u & Co didnt get into this Board.

CMC is finished.

Yes but no coz even the new crop of leaders are not fault free. What has Muthoka done with his logistics firm? overcharging the company to make money for himself.
If bill lay was God sent to help CMC recover the money stached away in offshore accounts, why has he been fired? more so when he (Muthoka) has acquired more shares to become a major shareholder,did he affect the status quo, were some of the current directors in the offshore accounts payroll???
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence
accelriskconsult
#13 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 2:31:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
Jamani wrote:
accelriskconsult wrote:
RVP wrote:
Who are their auditors? Did they overlook the fraud or can they prove that they were also duped? If it was in the US or Europe, wouldn't this have been one of the first questions asked?



It would be be quite difficult for external auditors to discover that kind of fraud for 2 reasons;

(1) The money was hidden in offshore accounts and those accounts were not in the company's general ledger.

(2) The funds were schemed from supplier invoices and transferred directly. The information needed to uncover the fraud could not be obtained from supplier invoices which were inflated by only 0.5%.

The auditors will also argue that they relied on management representations- that the directors had supplied them with all the necessary information.

You need luck to uncover this kind of fraud especially when the parties aiding in execution are based in a foreign country.

If I was a shareholder, I would sue the CMC board, past members of the board, benecifiaries of the payments and the trustees of the fund.

FYI - the current FD most likely managed the audit of CMC at one point in her career


Following the defense above, have we ever heard of any audit company in kenya, that had the "the luck to uncover fraud" from any of the listed companies and reported it? I can't remember any....... CMC had issues, audit passed over years, remember AK issues audit passed etc... is it that they are not lucky or do they turn a blind eye and use the defense above to argue that they relied on management representations..... so why do we pay them? if all they do is rely on management representation which is cooked




Jamani, the role of auditors is not to detect fraud but rather to express an opinion on whether a company/organizations financial statements are materially misstated and on whether the organization will remain a going concern in the foreseeable future (which is approximately 1 year).

Auditors usually rely on information provided by the executive management and directors of a company. If the information is withheld as happened in the case of CMC, an external auditor cannot be held liable. Audit standards require that the auditor design their tests in such a manner that if fraud exists, it will be detected. In designing those tests, auditors rely upon the general ledger, financial statements, agreements with suppliers and other contractors, minutes of meetings, company policies etc. Audit tests are therefore only as good as the information provided.

I do not know whether you have read the CMC story about how the fraud was perpetrated but in summary, the money that was allegedly diverted never got into the company's bank accounts and books. Existence of the 3 accounts through which the swindling occurred was never revealed to the company's auditors. Bank balances are usually audited by sending confirmation requests to the counterparties to confirm balances as well as reconciliations. As these bank accounts were not in the company's books, the auditors could not sent confirmation requests.

As I have argued previously on Wazua, shareholders rely on auditors opinions at their own peril. The board of directors remains the most important organ that shareholders can use to check the excesses of management. If the board is crooked, the Wanjiku shareholder is a sitting quacking duck!
Sure
#14 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 2:47:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 546
Location: Garissa
Why do the rich still steal even if its only a few millions. Why? Its because they got their wealth through questionable deals.
Wisdom to detect when share prices hit rock bottom.
When interest on bonds keep going up, you know the bear run is on high street. When interest on bonds start leveling, the bear has met the bull and they have hit rock bottom. When the interest rates on bonds start coming down, the bull has overpowered the bear and you better be riding the bull.
Jamani
#15 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 2:58:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
accelriskconsult wrote:
[quote=Jamani][quote=accelriskconsult]


Jamani, the role of auditors is not to detect fraud but rather to express an opinion on whether a company/organizations financial statements are materially misstated[]and on whether the organization will remain a going concern in the foreseeable future (which is approximately 1 year).

Auditors usually rely on information provided by the executive management and directors of a company. If the information is withheld as happened in the case of CMC, an external auditor cannot be held liable. Audit standards require that the auditor design their tests in such a manner that if fraud exists, it will be detected. In designing those tests, auditors rely upon the general ledger, financial statements, agreements with suppliers and other contractors, minutes of meetings, company policies etc. Audit tests are therefore only as good as the information provided.

I do not know whether you have read the CMC story about how the fraud was perpetrated ...I read thank you......

As I have argued previously on Wazua, shareholders rely on auditors opinions at their own peril. My question was why do we pay these people if all they do is rely on management to show them what to audit? The board of directors remains the most important organ that shareholders can use to check the excesses of management. If the board is crooked, the Wanjiku shareholder is a sitting quacking duck! Then we shareholders are all doomed as some of the information will never flow out..as did in AK and CMC..... well i would like to hear of Smeer/Ssini/Neveready among others in line with single sourcing

Dmitrys
#16 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 3:39:58 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/29/2011
Posts: 22
Location: Nairobi
One things you need to factor is CMC is a local corporate entity but gets huge government contracts. How do you pay out the benefactors? Through secret accounts!!!!!

Do you want to tell me all this years no one in gover eats and it is only thro dividends wacha wewe!!!! Other firms e.g. DT Dobie manage it because they are private entity, do not ask me who they supplies. Kamson was able to supply mahindra and Hyundai the same way. Why did they go back to CMC qualityyyyy!!! wacha weweeee.

That is why the new guy having worked in the industry in the country knows how to go about it unfortunately his former employer did not have a major government account hence he was a bitter man when he landed there.

The scandal runs deeper and my fear is you will be shocked when eventually we have the actual payee of the secret account (the real faces). This is new constitutional dispensation. Look at the Directors ext Sir Charles old older in comes Joshua K. One wonder who the real face the new kid on the block represents?
Mainat
#17 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 3:47:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Those focussing on Kiereni alone need to be asking themselves where Nd'ung'u and Kibe came thru...
Sehemu ndio nyumba
accelriskconsult
#18 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 4:20:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
Jamani wrote:
accelriskconsult wrote:
[quote=Jamani][quote=accelriskconsult]


Jamani, the role of auditors is not to detect fraud but rather to express an opinion on whether a company/organizations financial statements are materially misstated[]and on whether the organization will remain a going concern in the foreseeable future (which is approximately 1 year).

Auditors usually rely on information provided by the executive management and directors of a company. If the information is withheld as happened in the case of CMC, an external auditor cannot be held liable. Audit standards require that the auditor design their tests in such a manner that if fraud exists, it will be detected. In designing those tests, auditors rely upon the general ledger, financial statements, agreements with suppliers and other contractors, minutes of meetings, company policies etc. Audit tests are therefore only as good as the information provided.

I do not know whether you have read the CMC story about how the fraud was perpetrated ...I read thank you......

As I have argued previously on Wazua, shareholders rely on auditors opinions at their own peril. My question was why do we pay these people if all they do is rely on management to show them what to audit? The board of directors remains the most important organ that shareholders can use to check the excesses of management. If the board is crooked, the Wanjiku shareholder is a sitting quacking duck! Then we shareholders are all doomed as some of the information will never flow out..as did in AK and CMC..... well i would like to hear of Smeer/Ssini/Neveready among others in line with single sourcing




1. Remember misstatement is qualified by the preceding work, materially.

2. Read the story again and you will realise that the only record of the accounts referred to was the dossier that was found in the former MD's safe. The only way to obtain this information was (a) to break in to the MD's safe (b) To have an internal source at a very high level leak the information. Remember the accounts are not even held with Kenyan banks, are not in the company's general ledger, and according to the management and board never existed.

Deloitte ought to have resigned as the Company's auditors as soon as the story of the secret accounts emerged. Not because of any guilt on their part, but because (i) management made false written representations to them (ii) Their independence is already compromised
Jamani
#19 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 4:46:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
accelriskconsult wrote:
Jamani wrote:
[quote=accelriskconsult][quote=Jamani][quote=accelriskconsult]




1. Remember misstatement is qualified by the preceding work, materially.

2. Read the story again and you will realise that the only record of the accounts referred to was the dossier that was found in the former MD's safe. The only way to obtain this information was (a) to break in to the MD's safe (b) To have an internal source at a very high level leak the information. Remember the accounts are not even held with Kenyan banks, are not in the company's general ledger, and according to the management and board never existed. I read it and its okay I have no disputes, its clear

Deloitte ought to have resigned as the Company's auditors as soon as the story of the secret accounts emerged. This is my exact point, i remember the same company had an issue at one AGM of KCB, wanjiku shareholders wanted them out but Oraro saved them, well i know they wouldnt have made it due to holdings. . Not because of any guilt on their part, but because (i) management made false written representations to them (ii) Their independence is already compromised. Third do they have a name to maintain?

Antwan
#20 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 6:58:18 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 9/8/2011
Posts: 1
you should read a book called THE NUMBER, it was such an insightful read and exposes the rot that is within company financials, it says a lot about companies like Lucent and Enron
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