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MPC in Kenya HIKES CBK Rate BY 400BP to 11%
kizee1
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:32:16 PM
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Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
discuss
'user'
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:41:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
A vicious cycle

1.Cost of lending up
2.Inflation up
3.Businesses may close -reduced tax revenue
4.Unemployment up
5.industrial strikes to for wage increases
6.Shilling to lose further


Impact on other variables

The traditional effects on an increase of interest rates are, among others, the following:
1. a fall in stock exchange and in the value of other assets (as houses);
2. a fall in profitability of firms;
3. a fall in private investment;
4. a fall in consumption credit;
5. an inflow of foreign capital for buying bonds;
6. an upward pressure on exchange rate;
7. a larger public expenditure to pay for a previously cumulated public debt, whose burden might lead to reduction in other chapters in public expenditure;
8. a narrower disposable income for households having a large debt taken at variable rates;
9. a larger disposable income for households that have lent to others at variable rates (e.g. they own government bonds with variable rates);
10. a redistribution of income from debtors to lenders (in the part of debt that has variable rates).

http://www.economicswebi...g/glossary/interest.htm

2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
kizee1
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:51:37 PM
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Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
well done user, we are in deep trouble as an economy
mkonomtupu
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:03:33 PM
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Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
I can only see recession and loan defaults...guess December is a good time to lay off some workers
Mainat
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:03:50 PM
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Joined: 11/21/2006
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Decrease crowding out effect. Banks were starting to get lazy on govt paper earnings. Perhaps they might start lending some more.
Sehemu ndio nyumba
'user'
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:08:20 PM
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Joined: 12/3/2010
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Location: Londokwe
Mainat wrote:
Decrease crowding out effect. Banks were starting to get lazy on govt paper earnings. Perhaps they might start lending some more.


Infact the vice versa is likely .They will put more into the risk free government bonds as the government will be paying more interest.
How will banks lend more yet defaults are likely ?
2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
kizee1
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:12:52 PM
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Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
'user' wrote:
Mainat wrote:
Decrease crowding out effect. Banks were starting to get lazy on govt paper earnings. Perhaps they might start lending some more.


Infact the vice versa is likely .They will put more into the risk free government bonds as the government will be paying more interest.
How will banks lend more yet defaults are likely ?



next year is an election year so im sure the alchemists are hard at work
Intelligentsia
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:18:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
@user, I agree with your first set of 1-6.

Bank lending rates will up, resulting in default rates upping, cost of business will rise as firms pass on the extra finanxcing ost to consumers, reduced profitability - affecting profitability and overall tax collection. Redundancies thus likely. And at the far end of the spectrum, socio-political unrest as people cant afford food.
Iko shida kubwa sana kweney siku za usoni.

Is this the price we have to pay to shore up the shilling vis-a-vis the greenback?
Mainat
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:18:41 PM
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Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Maybe so, maybe not. In theory, by raising CBR so that its close to what GoK is paying on govt paper,it makes govt paper less attractive vs avis lending to common mwananchi. But I get your pt about more defaults...
Sehemu ndio nyumba
kizee1
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:30:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
Intelligentsia wrote:
@user, I agree with your first set of 1-6.

Bank lending rates will up, resulting in default rates upping, cost of business will rise as firms pass on the extra finanxcing ost to consumers, reduced profitability - affecting profitability and overall tax collection. Redundancies thus likely. And at the far end of the spectrum, socio-political unrest as people cant afford food.
Iko shida kubwa sana kweney siku za usoni.

Is this the price we have to pay to shore up the shilling vis-a-vis the greenback?



guess so, the economy will crush and demand for imports will drop, alternatively...rates may rise high enough to attract some portfolio flows, then again Uganda is at 25% on onite
bwenyenye
#11 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:33:59 PM
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Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
Every banker in his right mind knows that rising interest rates is the most counterproductive thing to do for curernt loan holders. This is because you assesed someone for a repayment of say 30K then where do you expect him to get 35K to repay you? He WILL default and as a bank you will have to increase your risk weighted assets. Then you can lend much less. You should hold it this way till the guy repays you consistently for six months for you to upgrade the loans and release your capital! So who is the fool here? the bank managers of course. They should increase interest rates for NEW borrowers as they will asses them for that repayment ability.

Anyway, all banks in Kenya lend on average up to 80% of their deposits which are held at below 8% interest. There is absolutly no reason to hike loans rates on the back of increased MPC hikes UNLESS you were arbitraging and for that you should be denied a banking licence and issued a gambling one.
my three cents.
I Think Therefore I Am
SAC Cohen
#12 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:35:58 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2011
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Location: Nairobi
I don't think Banks will actually increase the monthly repayment per se, only reckon the component of interest will be higher...in order to avoid default...especially on mortgages
cnn
#13 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:38:36 PM
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 1,619
Mainat wrote:
Maybe so, maybe not. In theory, by raising CBR so that its close to what GoK is paying on govt paper,it makes govt paper less attractive vs avis lending to common mwananchi. But I get your pt about more defaults...

With GOK so thirsty for cash and with the banksters in the know,they will just hike their ask for the return on goverment paper relative to the CBR rate.Tough times for guys at the Treasury.
'user'
#14 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:41:28 PM
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Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
I'm not a bank scarecrow as somebody once called me but ,banks change monthly repayment(instalments) with change in interest rate unless you are on a fixed interest rate mortgage/loan.This is from a personal experience over years.

Most loans are on fluctuating interest rate (nearly 90% by my estimation)
Things are bad



SAC Cohen wrote:
I don't think Banks will actually increase the monthly repayment per se, only reckon the component of interest will be higher...in order to avoid default...especially on mortgages

2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
wanyuru
#15 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:48:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/29/2007
Posts: 948
cnn wrote:
Mainat wrote:
Maybe so, maybe not. In theory, by raising CBR so that its close to what GoK is paying on govt paper,it makes govt paper less attractive vs avis lending to common mwananchi. But I get your pt about more defaults...

With GOK so thirsty for cash and with the banksters in the know,they will just hike their ask for the return on goverment paper relative to the CBR rate.Tough times for guys at the Treasury.

True. bad times ahead
Mainat
#16 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:59:13 PM
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Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
U were crying about inflation. I think MPC is hoping that the hike takes some wind out it i.e. Kenyans will save more.
Things were already bad before (record weakness of Ksh, inflation at record levels in real terms, BoP widening, no political will to reduce the GoK bill). Something had to give...
Sehemu ndio nyumba
Gordon Gekko
#17 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:59:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
'user' wrote:
5. an inflow of foreign capital for buying bonds;
6. an upward pressure on exchange rate;


Kindly explain these two points. If there is more forex flowing into the country, chasing the same amount of kenya shillings, it follows that the exchange rate will STRENGTHEN, unless we print moolah.
the deal
#18 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 5:03:27 PM
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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Step in the right direction by MPC and CBK...the economy need to cool off and start on a sustainable base and the only way to curb that capital demand is thru a rate hike...at the rate we were going before this hike Kenya would have entered -Ve growth by 1H 2012...Bravo CBK!
'user'
#19 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 5:16:34 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
Gordon Gekko wrote:
'user' wrote:
5. an inflow of foreign capital for buying bonds;
6. an upward pressure on exchange rate;


Kindly explain these two points. If there is more forex flowing into the country, chasing the same amount of kenya shillings, it follows that the exchange rate will STRENGTHEN, unless we print moolah.


It's a gamble which as Mainat has said may work or not work.

The problem is that foreign investors are seeing stars at home.That's why they have been exiting emerging markets.so there may not be much dollars to come in .
Even then why kill the domestic economy(industries) by increasing interest rates just to sell government bonds(more public debt).These will not add much value in the longrun as it will lead to the dreaded crowding out effect meaning No credit for private investors .


2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
the deal
#20 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 5:31:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
@User hiking interest rates and chopping them down has never killed industries...show me where? and how? In fact hypernflation can kill those industries and lead to social unrest..CBK is smoking the good stuff!
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