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Buying a House or to Build-Pros and Cons
mukiha
#21 Posted : Friday, May 06, 2011 4:27:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Verdict seems to be that build is better than buy.

So, can some one now explain why there are so many developments coming up for sale? Have these developers miss-read the market? I don't think so, because there are so many people buying the finished units.

So, what is really going on?

Or is it like the political opinion polls that show people are most concerned about the economy but when the elections come, they still vote by tribe?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Querry
#22 Posted : Friday, May 06, 2011 4:37:56 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 193
Location: nairobi
All these arguments above are all towards building, however what should be the considerations in making the decision:

1. should age be a consideration e.g if you are in your early to mid twenties and dont yet have a family ,then your dream house might not be MRS' dream house or 15 years down the line you will want to build a modern Dream house/retirement home.

2. consideration if you will later sell the house.: if you will be later selling/leasing the house, it would be hard to lease on the outskirts of rongai/kitengela/kiserian/Syokimau (my view)
3. Time available

if you are busy at work during the day then later attend evening classes. will you get adequate time to oversee the construction of a house.


Think
freiks
#23 Posted : Friday, May 06, 2011 5:49:57 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,729
I first built my own house and now I have have bought my own house. My taste was awesome but for the first time my blood pressure went up. It will take me years before I think of building my own house again especially from diaspora. I better spend extra while buying. I remember these so called fundis decided to build the roof they way they interpreted the plan yet when I arrived home I thought my archie never made the roof like that. I had to bring it down and get another fundi who could build as per plan.
Life is an endless adventure
jasonhill
#24 Posted : Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:56:02 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
You can save a great deal of money building as opposed to buying. But what you must remember is this:

1. Building a home is a full time job... well, at least a solid part time one. You will have to really MANAGE the construction- keep track of costs, inspect the work DAILY, inspect the building materials, clean up the worksite when workers leave it a mess, and secure the worksite. And most importantly, you will have to keep and ensure the schedule.

2. The schedule. It is extremely important. You have to take your time. Remember, you will NOT be able to comfortably live in the house while it is under ANY type of construction. Wait to move in until it is completely done. The schedule- your costs can double because the concrete guys can't work because they are waiting on the footings to be complete, or the inspector can't inspect because this isn't done, that's not done...the toilets aren't in because the plumbing isn't done... etc. etc. Crews can't wait around without pay. And delays costs money. Make sure you give yourself ample planning and buffer time, and when someone doesn't show up, FIRE THEM and understand that you may have to reschedule everyone else.

3. Contractors (the workers, the crew)- they might as well be ex-convicts, because they are almost always out to CON, steal, cheat, and "misrepresent" the facts and the work. You have to manage them like you are the warden and they are the prisoner. Be fair, be respectful, but be firm, make eye contact, and don't look away until they do. Be tough and speak loudly. Get a signed contract. Don't smile around them. Be extremely clear and to the point about what you want from them, and how you expect it to be done. Tell them: "You will not be paid for shoddy work, but for great work, you will be paid well!" Have a watchman watch the construction materials day and night, then have another watchman watching the watchman. Inventory your materials. Have other work for them to do (cleaning or landscaping, etc.) in case for some reason they show up, but can't work because you didn't properly manage the schedule.

4. Hire an architect and a structural engineer. They are your best friends. And before you give them that first visit, decide on EXACTLY what you want, how you want it, and then DO NOT EVER CHANGE THE PLAN that they create for you. I mean nothing. Not one bit. Don't add or subtract one nail, one block, one inch once the plans are drawn up properly. And remember, you may not want to live in this house forever, so, while you might think it nice to have a roof that slopes up steeply, then back down shallow, in the shape of your initials, remember, build something very nice but very generic, that all can enjoy, in case you ever need to sell it. Besides, it's location, then quality finishes, then size that sells. Custom junk, including electronics, custom paintings, overdone landscaping, super-duper toilets, etc., no matter how much you "invest" in them, loose money at sales time.

5. Get to know your city inspectors and what they expect. Get to know someone who has built a home in your area prior. Take them to a nice dinner. Ask tons of questions. They are your consultants. Treat them well, and they will reward you with money-and-headache-saving wisdom. Wisdom #1- make absolutely sure that you have an official title to the plot, and that there are no liens, claims, squatters, planned highways, easements, or right-of-ways that could interfere with your home in the future. Do indeed have the green card. Get an attorney to help you with this.

6. Have extra cash.. just in case something goes wrong, or there is an unforeseen problem or expense. If you take out a mortgage to build, make absolutely sure that you are very clear on when the bank is planning to disburse funds, and how much at a time, and what they require of the house, inspection-wise, to consider it CLOSED. ALWAYS have the money to pay people, and to buy materials ON TIME and CONSISTENTLY. Don't play games with paying people.

7. Understand that your house isn't on paper, or in a world unto it's own. Utility connections, driveway lengths, angles, and access, security issues such as trees, brush, gates, etc., set-back planning, types of soil, water and rainfall runoff, pests, bad neighbors, baruti damage from a quarry, railroad or plane noise, bad smells from a nearby godown, mobile phone signal strength, which way the house faces, matatu access if your car breaks down, proximity to a police station, traffic, etc. etc... you must consider ALL of these factors before building. Don't just build on a plot because you own it, or because it's cheap. Research all of these things and anything else you can think of before one shovel-full of dirt is moved. Camp out on the plot (if you own it, or with permission before you buy it) before hand... know what it is that you are getting into. Talk to people in the area.

8. Read a book. Make sure you understand the residential construction process before you begin. You will gain a lot of respect from the workers, and save yourself a lot of pain and heartache, and, oh yes... MONEY, if you know what you are doing, or at least know what you are looking at.

Best and good luck!

Hill
sihingwa
#25 Posted : Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:44:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 216
Location: Kenia
Jasonhill, great advise that I will use. Hope your words above wont surface on some news paper article by some one other than you!
jasonhill
#26 Posted : Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:41:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
@sihingwa thanks for the comment. I don't mind if someone does take that little article and puts it out there in a paper or blog under their own name if it helps us build homes in EA.

I believe in good game being free. The game is to be told, not sold.

Best,

Hill
propertyzote
#27 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 10:11:16 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 283
Location: Nairobi
Jansonhill amazing points. If put to practice can save one a great deal of a heart attack. I honestly think that one usually gets into trouble and headaches with the fundis due to improper plan (alterations) and poor inconsistent planning. Goodwork!
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yekeyeke
#28 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:43:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/4/2008
Posts: 345
Anyone wanting to build their dream house but does not have to time to supervise, can contract me to do the job for them on a turn key basis.
I can deliver at KES 29,000 per square meter.
yeke1234@yahoo.com

If you would want to see a sample ongoing construction site to help you make the decisoon to outsource, then pls contact me and i will take you to the site.
Blackberry
#29 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:20:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 420
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
A lot of headaches in building but you won't get the kind of home you want to build for 5 times the price if you choose to buy. I'm currently building and the house I'm building would have cost me over 25m if I was to buy it so I guess the headache is worth it plus how much can the fundis really steal? At most I give it 1m.


what you say makes a lot of senseApplause Applause a bag of cement disapearing once in a while is nothing compaired to the Markup your contractor will be making of the whole deal.

Opinion is free, truth is sacred.




SAC Cohen
#30 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:57:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/3/2011
Posts: 129
Location: Nairobi
yekeyeke wrote:
Anyone wanting to build their dream house but does not have to time to supervise, can contract me to do the job for them on a turn key basis.
I can deliver at KES 29,000 per square meter.
yeke1234@yahoo.com

If you would want to see a sample ongoing construction site to help you make the decisoon to outsource, then pls contact me and i will take you to the site.


Yekeyeke,
not sound like dampening any of your abilities, but when you say 29,000 per sq metre, it is only fair to state in this forum what you mean. does this figure mean house only?, common areas?, what if i want a swimming pool, can u deliver at 29,000 per sq meter?

Does 29,000 per sq mt allow me to choose spanish floor tiles or ROCA sanitaryware? before guys send you an email i think you should clarify what finishing you are willing to do at that 29k per sq mt.
moreso what grade of Kitchen are you offering...
this is my dream house we are speaking about...

just a thought
runjam
#31 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 1:42:13 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 73
Location: kenya
Any ladies who have built ? How was your experience with the fundis ?

Sometimes i get scared when i hear of all the challenges that people go through when building their homes.
Blackberry
#32 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:26:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 420
Location: Nairobi
runjam wrote:
Any ladies who have built ? How was your experience with the fundis ?

Sometimes i get scared when i hear of all the challenges that people go through when building their homes.


I did. well, still building ....was told mwako nduthiraga!?". I had labour contract with the main fundi who comes with fundis he trusts. we agree on what we shall do, I pay him and he pays his guys. never had a problem as his budgets are spot on.

Opinion is free, truth is sacred.




Eddy
#33 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:13:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/20/2006
Posts: 277
Blackberry wrote:
2012 wrote:
A lot of headaches in building but you won't get the kind of home you want to build for 5 times the price if you choose to buy. I'm currently building and the house I'm building would have cost me over 25m if I was to buy it so I guess the headache is worth it plus how much can the fundis really steal? At most I give it 1m.


what you say makes a lot of senseApplause Applause a bag of cement disapearing once in a while is nothing compaired to the Markup your contractor will be making of the whole deal.

I bet the contractors factor in pilferage as well, in fact there is more loss with contractors than when on is building on their own. When you factor 1m they might factor 2.5m, hence their high cost.
yekeyeke
#34 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:15:24 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/4/2008
Posts: 345
@Cohen

the fittings are hot high end, but good standard fiitings that you woudl find in a normal home. What o would advice is for you to see the sample and judge for yourself.
TD
#35 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:14:03 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/27/2006
Posts: 57
@yekeyeke,

When you talk of 29k per sqm of plinth area, does it include you doing things like the septic and general paving of the driveway? Ama ni nyumba peke yake.

Secondly, it may help if you gave general fittings info.
eg. Roofing - clay tiles/ cement tiles/ decra / mabati
Ceiling - ?
Kitchen - granite/marble/tiles/concrete etc and max dimensions
wardrobes - max width of...


yekeyeke
#36 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:13:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/4/2008
Posts: 345
@TD My reply in CAPS
When you talk of 29k per sqm of plinth area, does it include you doing things like the septic and general paving of the driveway? Ama ni nyumba peke yake. ALL AREAS.

Secondly, it may help if you gave general fittings info.
eg. Roofing - clay tiles/ cement tiles/ decra / mabati. THIS IS FOR MABATI THAT LOOKS LIKE TILES. EG. http://www.kaluworks.com/karm/tower_metcoppo.htm

Ceiling - ? STANDARD CEILING USING GYPSUM BOARD
Kitchen - granite/marble/tiles/concrete etc and max dimensions. THE COSTING IS FOR TILES AND COST WILL DEPEND ON PLINTH AREA.
wardrobes - max width of... THE COST WILL BE WITHIN THE 29k BUT YOU WILL DO THE SELECTION OF WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE IN THE HOUSE.

Capri
#37 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:50:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/13/2008
Posts: 51
yekeyeke wrote:

eg. Roofing - clay tiles/ cement tiles/ decra / mabati. THIS IS FOR MABATI THAT LOOKS LIKE TILES. EG. http://www.kaluworks.com/karm/tower_metcoppo.htm


As a point of interest, is the water harvested off these aluminum sheets potable ?
Pablo
#38 Posted : Saturday, May 14, 2011 11:40:33 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 567
Location: Nairobi
Good comments by SAC and Jason.
However I dont know if what Jason says is practical in terms of dont change a single detail. We are human beings and change is one constant that will be there. About the 29k per sqM. Wont say anything. Yani a 400SqM house would cost 11M to build? Interesting.
Mwafrika31
#39 Posted : Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:13:55 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 95
Eddy wrote:
Blackberry wrote:
2012 wrote:
A lot of headaches in building but you won't get the kind of home you want to build for 5 times the price if you choose to buy. I'm currently building and the house I'm building would have cost me over 25m if I was to buy it so I guess the headache is worth it plus how much can the fundis really steal? At most I give it 1m.


what you say makes a lot of senseApplause Applause a bag of cement disapearing once in a while is nothing compaired to the Markup your contractor will be making of the whole deal.

I bet the contractors factor in pilferage as well, in fact there is more loss with contractors than when on is building on their own. When you factor 1m they might factor 2.5m, hence their high cost.


I am currently putting up an apartment building, and my experience is that you the owner, must be on site to run things. Massive pilferage only occurs when you hand over the project to some 'foreman'. Fundis hardly get an opportunity to steal, after all, how many of you have ever lifted a cement bag to realize just how heavy it is? Kinda hard to run off with many. Fundis generally rob each other of tools. Your foreman is your problem, he's the blood sucking vampire.

If you can, purchase the stones, ballast and sand in sufficient quantities, then take 3 months leave from work to be on site daily. Only pay cash at delivery for these materials. Dont trust anyone, always verify quantities.

The best way to deal with fundis is to allocate production quotas. For example, each of my fundis for walling must per day use up 6 full wheelbarrows of mortar at 1:4 mix otherwise I sack them immediately. For plastering its the same, electrician is by contract. Ive paid the electrician 7,500 per every two bedroomed apartment he completes. etc etc. If you will not be at the site DAILY please add 1.2 million to your budget. If you hand over to a construction company, add 1-5 million to whatever budget you have.

Lastly, 29,000 kshs per sqm is too expensive. My direct experience is 15,000 kila kitu. However, finishes is up to you, why you would need to install toilets that cost 45,000 is up to you. Construct your own home, its quite an experience and not as hard as people fear, as you know humans can get used to anything. At first it will be challenging but very quickly you'll get the hang of things unless you are thick. Goodluck.
Wa_ithaka
#40 Posted : Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:19:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
Ksh29,000! Yekeyeke-your plan trying to discourage guys from using contractors has worked perfectly.
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