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What Crimes have been Committed by Raila?
Abby
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:25:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 112
Uhuru and Ruto have told us all sorts of things about Raila; one thing that comes out clearly is that they have nothing specific (say, corruption, impunity, etc) that they can accuse Raila of.

For example, Uhuru says those who refused to go to court and instead called for mass action should be the ones going to the Hague. I wish he could have said the same about those who rigged the election.

So, is Raila that bad? Which is a better choice between Raila and Uhuru/Ruto? Are the Rutos, Uhurus, etc afraid of a Raila Presidency because he is clean (to some degree) whereas they have some things to hide?

After all, light and darkness are 180 degrees apart, and people prefer darkness!
YesuWangu
#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:39:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588

What a question, Abby! Have you forgotten he was once accused of 'masterminding' a coup? Well that is now over, unlike the current crimes at the ICC...the most aggrieved party, the president of the day already got his justice on that matter. He is a rehabilitated criminal in this regard.


There is that issue of molasses thing....that is often spoken about but apparently evidence is well, only good in websites and political rallies, not in court.

Apart from party hopping, saying gays should be arrested then denying he said that and all these other numerous useless things he does, I also would like to know.
Abby
#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:45:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 112
Thanks.

If he did mastermind a coup, then he was helping Kenyans!!

Seriously, I think Raila is a man to consider for this job. A man like Ruto, I hear he is fairly rich: do you know any company for which he has worked?

I suspect people do not want Raila because he has nothing to hide, just my thought.

Thanks
TAZ
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:00:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
Abby wrote:
Uhuru and Ruto have told us all sorts of things about Raila; one thing that comes out clearly is that they have nothing specific (say, corruption, impunity, etc) that they can accuse Raila of.

For example, Uhuru says those who refused to go to court and instead called for mass action should be the ones going to the Hague. I wish he could have said the same about those who rigged the election.

So, is Raila that bad? Which is a better choice between Raila and Uhuru/Ruto? Are the Rutos, Uhurus, etc afraid of a Raila Presidency because he is clean (to some degree) whereas they have some things to hide?

After all, light and darkness are 180 degrees apart, and people prefer darkness!



Are you serious????
kingfisher
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:00:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
Abby wrote:
Thanks.

If he did mastermind a coup, then he was helping Kenyans!!

Seriously, I think Raila is a man to consider for this job. A man like Ruto, I hear he is fairly rich: do you know any company for which he has worked?

I suspect people do not want Raila because he has nothing to hide, just my thought.

Thanks


That's your opinion boss. others have different opinions, so don't complain because they don't seem to like RAO for the same reasons that you do

And again maybe I don't like a clean guy up there ...have thought of that??

OR maybe I don't want a riddles sayer up there.. think of that too??

OR may be I don't want someone who may just one day forget he is president and oppose himself, or even defect to another party all together!!

There are so many reasons boss people can give, however unconvincing they could be to you and others like you... so the best you can do is to try CONVINCE us WHY we should consider him for that top job and forget about why you suspect people don't like him...that is their problem and it will be like that, like it or not. So think outside the box if you really want your man to get the job. Acha nyef nyef mingi!
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
simonkabz
#6 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:16:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@abby, allow me to pose the same question to you. What did baks do in the 1st term that made people hate him so much?? Anyway for one who supervised his followers in massacre n mass displacement (and now curiously pointing fingers), there's no greater crime my friend.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Robinhood
#7 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:18:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
McReg... Uko wapi?
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
KulaRaha
#8 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:22:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
I dont like Raila, Ruto, Uhuru, Kibaki, Moi, etc etc.

But then I get accused of being a middle class whiner, a coward, etc etc.

But I still dont like any of them anymore...
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Jus Blazin
#9 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:50:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2008
Posts: 3,966
@Abby, masterminding a coup was helping Kenyans? How now? Another thing, what has RAO done for Kenyans in his time as a PM? If RAO was a goal post, you wouldn't score against him. He would keep on changing. Mara yuko katikati ya pitch. Mara with the linesmen. Mara next to the opponents goal post. He provides no stability. Like someone says, he would even oppose himself. Not the kind of leader to be Mr.President IMHO.
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Abby
#10 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:52:33 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 112
Now tell me: what has Uhuru done for you guys? Raila has helped create democratic space, are you saying that is not important?

What has Ruto done for Kenya? And Kalonozo? It really depends on what one considers .....
famooz
#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:54:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
Abby wrote:
Uhuru and Ruto have told us all sorts of things about Raila; one thing that comes out clearly is that they have nothing specific (say, corruption, impunity, etc) that they can accuse Raila of.

For example, Uhuru says those who refused to go to court and instead called for mass action should be the ones going to the Hague. I wish he could have said the same about those who rigged the election.

So, is Raila that bad? Which is a better choice between Raila and Uhuru/Ruto? Are the Rutos, Uhurus, etc afraid of a Raila Presidency because he is clean (to some degree) whereas they have some things to hide?

After all, light and darkness are 180 degrees apart, and people prefer darkness!



Abby this is called stirring up a hornets' nest my friend.....how about fact check before posting here?

Fact:To start with,nyanza returned more that 100% voter turn out in many polling centres,so did the swing state of Nithi:)

Wacha i head out,will be back with more fact check for you......
dossy7
#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:13:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,492
Location: Nairobi
Abby in Kenya we only have 2 crimes that Raila has committed and they are Railaphobia and Railamania.
The rest are just politics
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
Jus Blazin
#13 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:25:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2008
Posts: 3,966
Abby wrote:
Now tell me: what has Uhuru done for you guys? Raila has helped create democratic space, are you saying that is not important?

What has Ruto done for Kenya? And Kalonozo? It really depends on what one considers .....

As PM? I thought democratic space was there after 2002? And we have to credit EMK for that as well, being the man in charge and allowing democratic space to thrive. Again, as PM, what has he done?
FYI, I dont say that I prefer WR, UK or SMK. My comparison is based on RAO vs EMK. He has been in politics for long.
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Abby
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:28:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 112
Hi Guys,

May be we leave this topic for another day; sorry to have brought it up ----- I am relatively new on this site.

I must say though that Kenyans have no problems turning Criminals into Heroes .....
gohill
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:32:35 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 182
Location: Kenya
@Abby and co shut up and think of a better thread to discuss. We have had enough of Railas, uhurus and rutos in this section. This bigot analysis is making me hate club sk section of Wazua.
hoodrat
#16 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:36:24 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 262
dossy7 wrote:
Abby in Kenya we only have 2 crimes that Raila has committed and they are Railaphobia and Railamania.
The rest are just politics


I will have to agree with you on that.Idolised by his people,demonized by his opponents.How good or bad he is simply depends on which side of the divide you fall!
Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today!
dossy7
#17 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:43:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,492
Location: Nairobi
gohill wrote:
@Abby and co shut up and think of a better thread to discuss. We have had enough of Railas, uhurus and rutos in this section. This bigot analysis is making me hate club sk section of Wazua.

Freedom of expression
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
innairobi
#18 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:45:47 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 845
Honorable Abby

Reasons for the anti-PM movement differs from one person to the other. If we had time, we could discuss:

- Justifying the killing of women and children as long as it could get him to power http://www.youtube.com/w...mHmU&feature=relmfu

- PM and his kitchen cabinet (Anyang, Orengo, Kajwang, Midiwo, Miguna, Mbadi, Millie, Ongoro, Shebesh) acting like passive spectators to the PEV. Their loud & persistent pontifications not helping matters. Could be reason for the likely RV & Mt Kenya protest vote.

- failure to acknowledge rigging in ODM strongholds in 2007 despite the Kriegler report. to his credit, neither has PNU

- the maize scandal

- double standards - e.g. Ruto and Ongeri should resign pending investigations while Ngilu and Mudavadi have to wait for investigations to be completed. Can look the other way as long as you support him (Mudavadi, Ntimama, Bett, Gumo, Kosgey, Kajwang all have a colorful past that he will only point out once they move out of his camp. That's what has happened with Kalonzo, Ruto, Kenyatta)

- joining Baba Moi's KANU hoping to be toshwad (there has since then been an attempt to distort history that he got in to 'destroy KANU from within', something I find rather amusing)

- nepotism in appointments

- tribalism - surrounding himself with persons of his community (see above kitchen cabinet); wants Luhya to vote for him because he is more Luhya than Eugene Wamalwa (a half-Sabaot half-Bukusu?).

- a populist - can unilaterally declare a cap on rent and unga if it pleases the crowd. economic sense and repercussions notwithstanding

- a perception of sucking up to the West too easily

- a perception of preferring foreigners to locals for prominent jobs

- etc

Many of the other front runners may be worse. And there is no doubt that the PM has an impressive past as one of the persons that fought for democracy in the 80s and 90s.

However, the persistent Safi-Kama-Pamba mantra with everyone else as unclean is what probably draws focus on his indiscretions.

In summary, Wamalwa Kijana put it perfectly when he described Railaphobia and Railamania. The point is that:

- a good proportion of the people that have resolved to support Raila are unlikely to see any wrong by him no matter what is presented before them. (Hence your question?).

- a good proportion of his opponents are unlikely to view any positive thing about Raila presented before them. His actions will always be viewed suspiciously. As having a deeper sinister meaning.

This is politics. The PM has to find a way of convincing 50%+1 voters that he is the best man out there.

Honorable members, I beg to move.
All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
dossy7
#19 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:55:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,492
Location: Nairobi
[quote=innairobi
a perception of preferring foreigners to locals for prominent jobs

[/quote]

@Innairobi these same people who accuse RAO of preferring foreigners last week they all had foreigners in their defense tables at the hague while we have lawyers back home who could also do the job speak of double standards.
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
Jus Blazin
#20 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:07:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2008
Posts: 3,966
@innairobi Applause Applause Applause Applause
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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