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International Evidence Rules to fry Hague Six.
kadonye
#1 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:56:08 PM
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Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Lawyer Paul Mwangi(todays Nation pg 28) gives us an interesting comparison of evidence rules in magistrates courts vis a vis in international courts. In international courts, a prosecutor can even present hearsay as evidence and it will be admitted. Witnesses can be inconsistent without raising a red flag. The six are in deep trouble! I see a minimum of 3 convictions.
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
vinii
#2 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 8:43:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 2,057
kadonye wrote:
Lawyer Paul Mwangi(todays Nation pg 28) gives us an interesting comparison of evidence rules in magistrates courts vis a vis in international courts. In international courts, a prosecutor can even present hearsay as evidence and it will be admitted. Witnesses can be inconsistent without raising a red flag. The six are in deep trouble! I see a minimum of 3 convictions.
i have just read the pieace @ ka small, the threhhold is indeed low
If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
Robinhood
#3 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 8:28:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
I continue to hope for six convictions. My hopes are now raised.
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
masukuma
#4 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 11:15:45 AM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
its a kangaroo court! no wonder someone said its Europe's Guantánamo Bay.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
simonkabz
#5 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 11:26:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Some wana nishi are supporting the kangaroo court for various, viable/controversial reasons. 1. Raira 2. Tribal 3. End of impunity (totally fallacious since electral violence forms a tiny n seldom percentage of impunity whereas the major form-corruption- will still b with us) 4. Retribution...probably to the wrong pple since, I strongly beleive, the main culprits roam free. Anyway, time will tell.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
masukuma
#6 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 11:46:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
with such a low threshold on burden of proof - How did Ocampo mess up with Thomas Lubanga's case?
Shouldn't they hire the vioja mahakamani prosecutor - he has a 100% track record Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

with such a low threshold on burden of proof - whats their punishment? Kneeling down at the corner of the class or picking littered papers?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
B.Timer
#7 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 12:34:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

I tend to think that this matter is taken out of context.

What some may perceive as a low threshold, is actually an approach meant to cut down on red tape - technicalities that do not always serve JUSTICE.

However I believe evidence will have to be convincing.

May be what passes here is that the Judges are given a lot more leeway to decide what to accept and what not to.

In an international court this is necessary otherwise it would be practically immpossible to sustain any case.
Dunia ni msongamano..
McReggae
#8 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 12:53:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Thimioni, below I quote a friend:
"Today in Naivasha, I had a drink wth a military doctor friend of mine who narrated how he attended to PEV revenge attack victims of rape in 2008. Most of the women had not just been gang raped, but had their vaginas sealed with super glue afterwards, so they couldnt even pass urine! Some died! In my entire life, I've never heard of a worse violation than this!!!

.....for you such people yo still think would not like the O6 to got to the hague????
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
simonkabz
#9 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 1:44:00 PM
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Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@mcr, did the scumheads get such orders fm the H6?? Going by such emotive examples we are thus crucifying the wrong pple!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
McReggae
#10 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 2:00:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
simonkabz wrote:
@mcr, did the scumheads get such orders fm the H6?? Going by such emotive examples we are thus crucifying the wrong pple!


.....The 06 should prove otherwise, huh!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
newfarer
#11 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 2:02:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
Charles Taylor didnt participate directly in the amputing of limbs of innocent people in Liberia.He is roasting in Haki because he financed the people on the ground .Watu wakwende Heki.So no one will ever think of dishing cash to brainwashed (therefore brainless)unemployed youth to commit atrocities to innocent Kenyans Ever again
punda amecheka
sanity
#12 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 3:06:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 407
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
Anybody with a link to the article??
Hope is not a strategy
2 Miles
#13 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 3:14:50 PM
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Joined: 10/26/2010
Posts: 125
When you have a mass following , there is something called political responsibility. You don't have to murder or rape some1. You even don't have to give express instructions. But should your followers particpate in such actions, you are CRIMINALLY responsible. Idea is , you are in charge of your followers and their behaviour. No one else is better placed to control them than you. You can influence their behaviour. Mahtma Gandhi, just as an example , was able to convince his followers to accept non-violence means to achieve their objectives.

The same even happens in football matches , especially in Europe. When fans become rowdy - misbehave, even though the actual culprits are pursued , it is the club , which they which they support , which is heavily fined.
Jump-steady
#14 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 3:37:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
@2miles, still you've not answered @SimonKibz question of whether the wrong people are being persecuted.

As you rightly put it, Tylor is there for not necessarily being the rapist but because he has a following. Therefore then, why not take MK & RAO since they could be having a bigger following than even the O6. If Ruto knew that he had such a big following he would have gunned for the top seat!
kadonye
#15 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 3:45:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
@2 miles, nice flow of argument but it leads us to the line fronted by @impunity and others: Kibaki and Raila should have faced ICC and they bore greatest responsibility. According to Ocampo, the war was between ODM and PNU supporters(read Raila and Kibaki supporters), not tribes.

I refuse to buy it.
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
newfarer
#16 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 3:46:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
Jump-steady wrote:
@2miles, still you've not answered @SimonKibz question of whether the wrong people are being persecuted.

As you rightly put it, Tylor is there for not necessarily being the rapist but because he has a following. Therefore then, why not take MK & RAO since they could be having a bigger following than even the O6. If Ruto knew that he had such a big following he would have gunned for the top seat!


I have a feeling that the day for RAO and MK is coming .
They are just waiting for MK to retire next year to put him in the list .

As for RAO , they may put some damning evidence against him when the proceedings start and there he goes.

Na RAO alisema watu waende heki hata yeye akiitwa ataenda tu.
punda amecheka
2 Miles
#17 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 4:14:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2010
Posts: 125
Guys...lets be realistic. In Kenyan politics, especially in the rural masses.......it is the decisions of local leaders which influences how the majority vote. That is, if I am a very influential Maasai pastor , my political opinion , is taken as gospel truth by my Maasai flock. So , if I support person Y for presidency, my followers will also support person Y. And even though person Y doesn't make it , they still owe allegiance to me. So, if there is a probability that they will resort to violence , who is better placed to control them???? If they actually do resort to violence, who is best placed to control them???? If they resort to violence , who is likely to escalate it???? Well, its me ( the Maasai pastor ) and not person Y , who was the presidential contender.

Same script applies here.
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