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President Uhuru Kenyatta 2nd Term - 2017/2022
Liv
#81 Posted : Saturday, February 17, 2018 11:20:14 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
Fyatu wrote:
wukan wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I have always wondered why people fear national debt... if someone is unwise enough to give you lots of money bila conditions or collateral - the joke is on him.


Because in every country that has undergone a debt crisis it is the middle class that shrinks most melting into poverty and the poor really suffer.

Check out what Brazil went through you will realize why the impeached their president for lying about debt.

Quote:
Brazil is the country that might have become another Japan. Instead, it is flat broke, with a broken spirit and an empty treasury.

The Brazilian ''miracle'' - the spurt of growth from the late 1960's to the late 1970's - became the economist's model of the way to manage expansion from agrarian stagnation to the newly industrialized stage.

Now, however, Brazil is in its third year of recession, and the country that once was the world banking system's ideal borrower pleads for loans just to pay the interest on its debts.

How Brazil fell to a position where it is known best today for the weight of its $92 billion foreign debt, larger than that of any other country, is a matter that absorbs all those who have a stake in the country - Brazilians themselves and the industrial world, which relies for much of its own prosperity on the health of developing countries such as Brazil.

Leading Brazilians both inside and outside the Government cite the effects of the sharp rise in oil prices during the 1970's on an economy that had been building its future on imported oil. They blame Western banks for heaping an insupportable burden of loans on the country. And they blame the United States for incurring budget deficits of $200 billion a year that have forced up world interest rates and hence affected the ability of Brazil to make interest payments.

Ultimately, however, they blame Brazil's technocrats, the people who took the bankers' money.


Dose this sound familiar to Jubilee 5000Mw power project, SGR, road annuity.

Quote:
'Pharaonic Projects' Cited

The technocrats' errors, in the view of many Brazilians, involved Pharaonic projects, many of which were conceived to protect Brazil from future oil-price shocks.

For example, until the current economy forced them to postpone some, the Government-owned power utilities were building enough plants - hydroelectric, nuclear and coal - to produce more power than Brazil is expected to need well beyond the year 2000.

In addition, a multibillion-dollar railroad, with many costly bridges and tunnels, is being built alongside a railroad that, critics contend, might have been rehabilitated at much lower cost.


Read the rest http://www.nytimes.com/1...pse.html?pagewanted=all



The New York times article referenced above is dated 1983. It is important that i remind you that TODAY(2018), Brazil is the 8th largest economy in the World. Perhaps due to the debt they took for massive infrastructural development(Pharaonic Projects) in the past.Uhuruto must borrow and ensure that borrowed funds build assets that will give Kenya and edge in the next 50 years.That legacy will last forever.

@Mugundaman has described some wazuans as people who love to hear themselves speak despite not knowing what they are talking about.

Some other wazuan lamented that wazua is increasingly becoming a melting pot of river road economics/ist

I urge Uhuruto handlers who visit wazua to remind CIC that he must not fail in delivering key infrastructure.for example, at the very least SGR must touch lake Victoria, the 3 lamu berths must be complete, Mombasa-mariakani superhighway, 200,000 houses etc by 2022


My views are that Kenya should continue building these strategic infrastructures irrespective of the amount of borrowing for the same. If we can get funding now...let's go ahead and build. A time will come when either it will be too costly to build or there will be no country or organisation that can fund such developments.

If President Moi had borrowed heavily and built these structures this country would have got these assets at much lower cost than they costing now and the loans repayments would have been renegotiated over time and won't be a big burden now. If I was the president I would borrow as much as possible and get these projects completed in full and on time. Which country has never had a crisis due to ambition in their development journey? We shall not remain in the crisis forever...one generation may suffer but the next one will have some assets to build on and make the country better.

Our problem is corruption...Where we borrow to steal and the cost of the projects are too high to ever make economic sense.

murchr
#82 Posted : Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:19:09 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
KulaRaha
#83 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 8:12:50 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
murchr wrote:
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.


Which projects are those? smile
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Angelica _ann
#84 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 9:50:16 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,936
KulaRaha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.


Which projects are those? smile


Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc.

Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
KulaRaha
#85 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 9:55:30 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Angelica _ann wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.


Which projects are those? smile


Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc.

Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation.


So, given this, how will they ever contribute to income generation? For example, Coal electicity generation is not going to contribute to anything...given we are importing the coal itself.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
wukan
#86 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 11:37:16 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,656
Fyatu wrote:


The New York times article referenced above is dated 1983. It is important that i remind you that TODAY(2018), Brazil is the 8th largest economy in the World. Perhaps due to the debt they took for massive infrastructural development(Pharaonic Projects) in the past.Uhuruto must borrow and ensure that borrowed funds build assets that will give Kenya and edge in the next 50 years.That legacy will last forever.

@Mugundaman has described some wazuans as people who love to hear themselves speak despite not knowing what they are talking about.

Some other wazuan lamented that wazua is increasingly becoming a melting pot of river road economics/ist

I urge Uhuruto handlers who visit wazua to remind CIC that he must not fail in delivering key infrastructure.for example, at the very least SGR must touch lake Victoria, the 3 lamu berths must be complete, Mombasa-mariakani superhighway, 200,000 houses etc by 2022


Thank you for at least taking time to read the article. Just to point out Brazil's economy is 500 years old. As result of that debt binge Brazil had to change currencies like 5 times. Anyway all hail the Pharaoh...let's talk when sh*t hits the fan(if at all) then you realize there is something called organic growth
masukuma
#87 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 12:18:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.


Which projects are those? smile


Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc.

Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation.


True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options
(1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds
(2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds
(3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds
(4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure

F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Jump-steady
#88 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 12:39:09 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
masukuma wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.


Which projects are those? smile


Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc.

Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation.


True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options
(1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds
(2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds
(3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds
(4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure

F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!!


Laughing out loudly

masukuma
#89 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 12:52:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Jump-steady wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.


Which projects are those? smile


Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc.

Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation.


True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options
(1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds
(2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds
(3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds
(4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure

F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!!


Laughing out loudly


Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Thitifini
#90 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 4:37:43 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 681
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
Jump-steady wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.

If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures.


Which projects are those? smile


Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc.

Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation.


True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options
(1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds
(2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds
(3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds
(4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure

F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!!


Laughing out loudly


Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako!


Naskia wanaweza tuchota sote (colonize) tukishindwa kulipa....

60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
71 Pages«<7891011>»
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