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Shocking police story
Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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Swenani wrote:@maka was referring to the problems bedeviling his family(marital problems) @swenani stop comforting yourself  you are ok with it
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/22/2009 Posts: 206
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murchr wrote:TNT wrote:Swenani wrote:butterflyke wrote:murchr wrote:Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment. Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief... Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job. I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act? You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side. Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together! I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with? Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside. This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal.I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military. And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions A few facts that you got wrong: 1) Garissa attack was not a hostage situation. It was a massacre, so there were no negotiations going on since the terrorists were not asking for a chopper and a buss with a tank full of gas. Instead, they were just having a field day butchering and executing students as our army was pretending to secure the perimeter. 2) Modern warfare is essentially Close Quarter Combat. In other words, modern armies generally fight in an urban setting and so it is vital for them to be well versed in CQB/CQC. When you say our army is incapable of fighting Close Quarter Combat, you are actually saying that our army is handicapped, which is not a compliment as may think but a serious flaw. 3) Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard of a bomb shelter. Bombing a building does not necessarily mean job done. In other words, the only way to ensure the warlord in the palace is truly dead is to send soldiers in their to confirm ala Osama Bin Laden. That's the reason why the US Special Forces decided to send real soldiers for that mission instead of firing a SCUD missile from the comfort of Washington. 4) Since you've referred extensively to the US Army consider this: every division of the US Army has an elite team well-versed in all forms of warfare, from Guerilla warfare to Close Quater Combat to Assassination. For instance, instead of the relying on the US Marine famous SEAL 6, the US Army trained their own team of Special Forces. Similarly, the Kenyan Army has it's own team of Special Forces that should actually be much better than RECCe but unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case. All this talk of the Kenyan Army is not to do this or that is bullcrap. If indeed it is true, then you should be seriously worried because it means our army is so one-dimensional.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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TNT wrote:murchr wrote:TNT wrote:Swenani wrote:butterflyke wrote:murchr wrote:Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment. Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief... Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job. I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act? You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side. Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together! I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with? Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside. This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal.I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military. And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions A few facts that you got wrong: 1) Garissa attack was not a hostage situation. It was a massacre, so there were no negotiations going on since the terrorists were not asking for a chopper and a buss with a tank full of gas. Instead, they were just having a field day butchering and executing students as our army was pretending to secure the perimeter. Stop using big words that are confusing you, didn't one of the minions call a parent asking him to call the president and tell him to withdraw the forces from Somalia or else his child is dead meat? Ofcourse he was bluffing but wasnt that a hostage situation? SMH Yes the massacre happened but the victims were taken hostage...sasa umeelewa ama umelewa?
2) Modern warfare is essentially Close Quarter Combat. In other words, modern armies generally fight in an urban setting and so it is vital for them to be well versed in CQB/CQC. When you say our army is incapable of fighting Close Quarter Combat, you are actually saying that our army is handicapped, which is not a compliment as may think but a serious flaw. I agree totally, yes, but thats the reality, our jeshi ni ya inchi kavu that is the bushes, they are not trained to scale walls 3) Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard of a bomb shelter. Bombing a building does not necessarily mean job done. In other words, the only way to ensure the warlord in the palace is truly dead is to send soldiers in their to confirm ala Osama Bin Laden. That's the reason why the US Special Forces decided to send real soldiers for that mission instead of firing a SCUD missile from the comfort of Washington. Say what??? Who took down Bin Laden? 4) Since you've referred extensively to the US Army consider this: every division of the US Army has an elite team well-versed in all forms of warfare, from Guerilla warfare to Close Quater Combat to Assassination. For instance, instead of the relying on the US Marine famous SEAL 6, the US Army trained their own team of Special Forces. Similarly, the Kenyan Army has it's own team of Special Forces that should actually be much better than RECCe <<<<Where is this team stationed? but unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case. Am glad you said that Yes SPECIAL FORCES; elite team,
All this talk of the Kenyan Army is not to do this or that is bullcrap. If indeed it is true, then you should be seriously worried because it means our army is so one-dimensional. ^^^^Your last paragraph is a reality check; and thats why they brought down Westgate. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 399 Location: Where everyone knows you
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TNT wrote:Swenani wrote:butterflyke wrote:murchr wrote:Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment. Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief... Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job. I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act? You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side. Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together! I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with? TNT On point there
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 399 Location: Where everyone knows you
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Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote: I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want No murchr, No It's not that we want them to do anything. We desperately need them at such moments! Will you also say jeshi should not assist in fire fighting since it's a county govt duty? This thing was the most shameful in our history coz of our response and the slow, painful, torturous way the students met their death Yaani Murchr, mpaka the terrorists had time to take a girl's phone, talk to the father, tell him to say the final goodbye to his daughter, then shoot her as he listens Just imagine the pain. Imagine if that was your daughter! Mimi hii kitu imeniuma sana mpaka I wasn't initially reading about it or watching news Very VERY sad. KDF didn't go in as their was nothing to loot. 
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 399 Location: Where everyone knows you
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murchr wrote:Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:
You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side.
I just can't agree with this. Millitary is not trained in what? When they go for missions in other countries like Somalia and the battle is in an urban area, they will do what they did in Garissa? Spectate like that VoK era phrase, 'curious onlookers'? Look, these guys are among the select few in Kenya who have rights and training on how to use firearms. If they have to spectate like they did, then tuna shida! Granted, Recce- who are under the police-may be better in those missions but you can't just spectate as those mohameddan boys leisurely kill Kenyans! If you are a defender, and you find yourself in good position to score FOR your team, will you hold the ball and wait for a striker because scoring is not your role? Tuwache kuwa literalists! When they go to a place like Somalia, they bomb the whole building down without considering who is in there or who is not. Its not for them to speculate on if there's a woman etc bla bla...they hit a target and neutralize the threat. They are not trained to perform commando mission like activities...hizo ni za special forces, that's why I keep insisting with the new age kind of crime, we cant continue recruiting D materials to reason with criminals. Then why did they go into Westgate when Recce was already there, shoot there commander, and proceeded to loot - BIG TIME, They blew safes, stole 100's of millions worth of jewelry, watches, phones etc. that have never been recovered. Then they then BOMBED the whole place down
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 399 Location: Where everyone knows you
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murchr wrote:TNT wrote:Swenani wrote:butterflyke wrote:murchr wrote:Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment. Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief... Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job. I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act? You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side. Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together! I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with? Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside. This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal. I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military. And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions CRAP. They have a special unit trained equal or better than Recce
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 399 Location: Where everyone knows you
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TNT wrote:murchr wrote:TNT wrote:Swenani wrote:butterflyke wrote:murchr wrote:Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment. Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief... Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job. I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act? You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side. Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together! I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with? Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside. This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal.I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military. And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions A few facts that you got wrong: 1) Garissa attack was not a hostage situation. It was a massacre, so there were no negotiations going on since the terrorists were not asking for a chopper and a buss with a tank full of gas. Instead, they were just having a field day butchering and executing students as our army was pretending to secure the perimeter. 2) Modern warfare is essentially Close Quarter Combat. In other words, modern armies generally fight in an urban setting and so it is vital for them to be well versed in CQB/CQC. When you say our army is incapable of fighting Close Quarter Combat, you are actually saying that our army is handicapped, which is not a compliment as may think but a serious flaw. 3) Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard of a bomb shelter. Bombing a building does not necessarily mean job done. In other words, the only way to ensure the warlord in the palace is truly dead is to send soldiers in their to confirm ala Osama Bin Laden. That's the reason why the US Special Forces decided to send real soldiers for that mission instead of firing a SCUD missile from the comfort of Washington. 4) Since you've referred extensively to the US Army consider this: every division of the US Army has an elite team well-versed in all forms of warfare, from Guerilla warfare to Close Quater Combat to Assassination. For instance, instead of the relying on the US Marine famous SEAL 6, the US Army trained their own team of Special Forces. Similarly, the Kenyan Army has it's own team of Special Forces that should actually be much better than RECCe but unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case. All this talk of the Kenyan Army is not to do this or that is bullcrap. If indeed it is true, then you should be seriously worried because it means our army is so one-dimensional. @ TNT. So true. I can't believe people can be so naive.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MatataMingi wrote:TNT wrote:murchr wrote:TNT wrote:Swenani wrote:butterflyke wrote:murchr wrote:Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment. Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief... Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job. I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act? You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side. Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together! I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with? Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside. This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal.I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military. And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions A few facts that you got wrong: 1) Garissa attack was not a hostage situation. It was a massacre, so there were no negotiations going on since the terrorists were not asking for a chopper and a buss with a tank full of gas. Instead, they were just having a field day butchering and executing students as our army was pretending to secure the perimeter. 2) Modern warfare is essentially Close Quarter Combat. In other words, modern armies generally fight in an urban setting and so it is vital for them to be well versed in CQB/CQC. When you say our army is incapable of fighting Close Quarter Combat, you are actually saying that our army is handicapped, which is not a compliment as may think but a serious flaw. 3) Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard of a bomb shelter. Bombing a building does not necessarily mean job done. In other words, the only way to ensure the warlord in the palace is truly dead is to send soldiers in their to confirm ala Osama Bin Laden. That's the reason why the US Special Forces decided to send real soldiers for that mission instead of firing a SCUD missile from the comfort of Washington. 4) Since you've referred extensively to the US Army consider this: every division of the US Army has an elite team well-versed in all forms of warfare, from Guerilla warfare to Close Quater Combat to Assassination. For instance, instead of the relying on the US Marine famous SEAL 6, the US Army trained their own team of Special Forces. Similarly, the Kenyan Army has it's own team of Special Forces that should actually be much better than RECCe but unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case. All this talk of the Kenyan Army is not to do this or that is bullcrap. If indeed it is true, then you should be seriously worried because it means our army is so one-dimensional. @ TNT. So true. I can't believe people can be so naive. You are all yapping from an emotional & ignorant point of view. But if it suits you well and good. Lets wait for the next attack and make sure you call the army "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/7/2010 Posts: 728 Location: Wazuaville
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radio wrote:WTF!?
Someone has been giving helicopter rides to his kin and no consequences?
airforce choppers were used in a funeral of a private citizen. WTF! "Money never sleeps"
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