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I am voting No
masukuma
#71 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:57:25 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
@Wendz, they are the experts - we paid them to write the draft. I should not do their work.
@ECHOKENYA, the law we have has nothing to do with Christianity - Nothing!!! It only originated in Britain and Britain has nothing to do with Christianity. (Lets not define Christianity lest everyone who bears a Jewish or European name here takes offense).
What Faith is this? Jesus Christ - the author of Christianity had 2 laws
Jesus wrote:

'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

the rest is just British European law.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
B.Timer
#72 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:12:37 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
ECHOKENYA wrote:
In regards to the Kadhi courts, the common concerns I have heard raised have primarily been that people feel one religion is being favored over the others and that this could lead to the stifling of other religious freedoms as well as extremism of the "favored" religion.

Our current court system is built and borrowed from British Christian tradition and our lawyers are trained in this tradition and have no training in Islamic law or traditional law for that matter. Therefore, the same principle the courts apply when they call upon those well versed in traditional matters to help in adjudicating matters concerning traditional laws, is the same principle that the Khadis courts are established under.

Christians with personal woes go to a subordinate court which is modeled after their faith therefore those versed in Islamic law are hired by the government to adjudicate on similar issues for Muslims. Neither the Christian nor the Muslim nor the traditionalist pays for family disputes between their followers. The tax payer, who is Christian, Muslim, Traditionalist or Other, foots the bill in all these scenarios. So there is no semblance of favoritism of one religion over another.





This claims of our laws being allegedly modeled on judo-christianism is nauseating.

For all I care, the laws we have are laws we have suggested to the drafters of the constitution, and the rest will be passed by parliament that we elect.

As you suggested, it would all be fine if everybody went to the same subordinate courts, then invited experts in their traditional/kadhi laws to advise the court.
That way, nobody would be complaining

Dunia ni msongamano..
Mpenzi
#73 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:28:49 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
@EchoKenya

Please give us examples of existing laws modelled on the Christian faith. Our laws on marriage and succession, although having hints of christianity have now being neutralised and even in some cases incorporation aspects of customary law. Unless you wish to claim that the Companies Act and the Capital Markets Act borrow from Christianity smile
poundfoolish
#74 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:47:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
@mpenzi

heard a Magistrate admit they cannot handle matters of muslim laws on such issues as marriage as compared to a christian one. They actuallly have to get a sheikh/kadhi to help out

reason being the system/school of law in such matters is more christian biased.
Wendz
#75 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:50:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Dont we wish we all had this right!!!!!
Some would have gone home immediately they get to that mbunge!

Right of recall
104. (1) The electorate under Articles 97 and 98 have the right to
recall the member of Parliament representing their
constituency before the end of the term of the relevant House
of Parliament.
(2) Parliament shall enact legislation to provide for the grounds
on which a member may be recalled and the procedure to be
followed.
Wendz
#76 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:58:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
@masukuma....

And if the proposed constitution goes through, we still have another avenue incase the parliament decides to sneak in that "legalisation of abortion" we are all fearing.....

Right to petition Parliament
119. (1) Every person has a right to petition Parliament to consider any
matter within its authority, including to enact, amend or repeal
any legislation.
(2) Parliament shall make provision for the procedure for the
exercise of this right.
masukuma
#77 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:59:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
@Wendz, a nicely crafted carrot
Quote:

Parliament shall enact legislation to provide for the grounds
on which a member may be recalled and the procedure to be
followed.

its like saying MPs salaries will be limited by Parliament.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Mpenzi
#78 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:02:12 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
@Wendz
I can bet that the Act Parliament will pass for purposes of 'recall' will be so watered down that it will be virtually impossible to recall MPs. I simply dont trust MPs. The draft should have provided for the grounds themselves and leave out the actual procedure to be set out in an Act of Parliament.
Wendz
#79 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:32:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
@Mpenzi and Masukuma

What is the role of parliament? Who makes the laws? We may not love the laws but we have to contend with parliament making the laws because thats the only way we can have laws in Kenya. Who could imagine the same parliament could actually come up with a proposed constitution that allows for impeachment of the President? An Independent Judiciary etc?

So, because this constitution and any other that will come in future will give powers to the parliament to make the relevant laws, how are we gonna handle it or how are we going to pass it? or does it mean we shall never have a constitution? @Masukuma said that on another post, that there is a lee way for parliament to limit the tenure or some commission etc.... Now, this is a "crafted carrot"............ I asked this question again? What do you people want? We cant make laws? PARLIAMENT makes laws it doesnt matter how bad you feel about it.... I keep saying, this constitution will help us sort the rot in the bunch we have now.... hey, you want us with old constitution, then dont complain about them.
Theu
#80 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:41:43 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/18/2008
Posts: 353
Am voting yes. If we are to say no until we all agree then lets forget about a new katiba. Ruto and co are against it coz of land. Too much hype about abortion clause and kadhi courts.Applause
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